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Old 01-20-2012, 16:01   #1
Glockbuster
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Speer Gold Dot 357 SIG questions

I have some questions regarding this ammo:

1) Why the yellowish primer instead of the others found in .40 ammo ?

2) What does the little "S" stamped in the case´s rim mean ?

3) Why is the LE version bullet a six petal bullet vs the five petal bullet for the civilian market ?
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Old 01-20-2012, 16:28   #2
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1) Don't know. Maybe its an internal thing at Speer
2) Don't know for sure on that one either. Maybe a another designation for Speer((easily determine .357sig from .40 optically) or they just didn't feel like nickel plating the primers.
3) Speer has two versions of Gold Dot bullets for .357sig. The 5 petal bullet @ 1350 fps is the "Short Barrel" version. The 6 petal @ 1375 fps is regular version. Supposibly some law enforcement agency(s) what a .357sig GD that expanded more quickly thus the 5 petal version was born. You can get either versions in 50 rd or 20 rd boxes but the 20rd boxes usually have the 5-petal.

Last edited by dkf; 01-20-2012 at 16:29..
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Old 01-20-2012, 16:48   #3
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Right I know about the difference in the items but my question is why go through the trouble of yet another bullet for just 25 fps more ?
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Old 01-20-2012, 17:09   #4
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2. The S is for smaller flash hole in the primer pocket.
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Old 01-20-2012, 17:09   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockbuster View Post
I have some questions regarding this ammo:

1) Why the yellowish primer instead of the others found in .40 ammo ?

2) What does the little "S" stamped in the case´s rim mean ?

3) Why is the LE version bullet a six petal bullet vs the five petal bullet for the civilian market ?
1) Primers which are brass colored help eleminate the issues of plating fouling the firing pin or striker channel causing missfires due to debris in the channel. Also some LE ammunition is built using "lead free" / "Non Toxic primers for indoor shooting situations.

2) The "S" signifies a small flash hole in the casing, Speer may have done this for better pressure containment. This has caused issues for handloaders including myself, Broken decapping pins! I have had to drill out the flash holes to uniform my casings to eliminate this issue.

3) LE requirements for faster opening petals at lower velocities is the only reason I can think of for the 6 petal design. LE has a duty to act, pass thru shots need to be eliminated, for bystander protection, missed or pass thru bullets are a public relations nightmare. They are to bring perps to justice when possible!
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Old 01-20-2012, 18:17   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockbuster View Post
I have some questions regarding this ammo:

1) Why the yellowish primer instead of the others found in .40 ammo ?
I don't know.

Quote:
2) What does the little "S" stamped in the case´s rim mean ?
I don't know

Quote:
3) Why is the LE version bullet a six petal bullet vs the five petal bullet for the civilian market ?
The six-petal version is the higher velocity ammo carried by the LEO agencies that favor this caliber for all-round effectiveness. The five-petal limited penetration version was specifically ordered by unindentified LEO agencies who wish to avoid overpenetration issues, and according to Speer the five-petal bullet isn't offered to reloaders because of its uber-secret high-tech zombie-stopping technology.

I'll take either one, although the six-petal version is the one that has a documented record of stopping truck drivers and other felons hunkered down behind barriers they thought were protecting them. Something tells me the five-petal version was ordered by an ultra-secret federal agency that doesn't want their rounds to penetrate aircraft steel/aluminum chasis after plowing through an alleged felon during the commission of a terrorist event.

I'd take either round for effective carry myself because .357sig is a formidable self-defense caliber.
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Old 01-20-2012, 19:12   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _The_Shadow View Post
1) Primers which are brass colored help eleminate the issues of plating fouling the firing pin or striker channel causing missfires due to debris in the channel. Also some LE ammunition is built using "lead free" / "Non Toxic primers for indoor shooting situations.

2) The "S" signifies a small flash hole in the casing, Speer may have done this for better pressure containment. This has caused issues for handloaders including myself, Broken decapping pins! I have had to drill out the flash holes to uniform my casings to eliminate this issue.

3) LE requirements for faster opening petals at lower velocities is the only reason I can think of for the 6 petal design. LE has a duty to act, pass thru shots need to be eliminated, for bystander protection, missed or pass thru bullets are a public relations nightmare. They are to bring perps to justice when possible!
My question was a toughy but this is very insightful information, thanks very much.
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:10   #8
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there was a post a few months ago that was very informative and in depth on the 357sig that explained these questions and more. maybe a search would find it.
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Old 01-21-2012, 08:36   #9
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there was a post a few months ago that was very informative and in depth on the 357sig that explained these questions and more. maybe a search would find it.
I have tried and zilch. If you do have a link I'd really appreciate if you post.
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:13   #10
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i tried to locate it before i posted but couldn't.
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:26   #11
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one thing i do remember that was posted was the original GD had issues with the primers backing out under preasure, maybe the hole was to big or something, but the s and yellow color was to designate the new and improved round over the old. as far as the 5 petal [53918] 1350fps and the 6 petal [54234] 1375fps, the post stated the 6 petal 1375fps was requested by LEO agencies for better barrier penetration through car doors and such. it was also stated that the 5 petal 1350fps opened up easier and that is why it is sold to the civilian market in the 20 round boxes.

Last edited by 1canvas; 01-21-2012 at 09:28..
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:32   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1canvas View Post
one thing i do remember that was posted was the original GD had issues with the primers backing out under preasure, maybe the hole was to big or something, but the s and yellow color was to designate the new and improved round over the old. as far as the 5 petal [53918] 1350fps and the 6 petal [54234] 1375fps, the post stated the 6 petal 1375fps was requested by LEO agencies for better barrier penetration through car doors and such. it was also stated that the 5 petal 1350fps opened up easier and that is why it is sold to the civilian market in the 20 round boxes.
I recall the opposite; an unspecified LEO agency requested the limited-penetration 5-petal round.

The mystery to me is why the 5-petal round is available to civilians but the bullet isn't available to reloaders.
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Old 01-21-2012, 11:04   #13
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I recall the opposite; an unspecified LEO agency requested the limited-penetration 5-petal round.

The mystery to me is why the 5-petal round is available to civilians but the bullet isn't available to reloaders.
you may be correct but I wouldn't think Speer would redesign and retool for one LEO agency regardless of size. if the LEO agency had worries about overpenetration they could have easily switched to another ammo such as HSTs or Rangers.
I also think the difference between the two in penetration into soft target would be to minimal to say one is in danger of overpenetrating but the other is not. to me it looks as if they wanted to develop a hard barrier round that would perform in soft targets as well. LEOs always have a high likelihood of having to shoot through auto glass and car bodies but civlians don't. just my thoughts, maybe others will chime in with more knowledge on the Speer GD sig round.

for me i use the 6 petal GD in the woods and either 5 petal GD or HSTs for everything else. this combo gives me a lot of versatility.

Last edited by 1canvas; 01-21-2012 at 11:20..
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Old 01-21-2012, 16:38   #14
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for me i use the 6 petal GD in the woods and either 5 petal GD or HSTs for everything else. this combo gives me a lot of versatility.
I don't think there are any bad .357sig JHP self-defense rounds. But lately I've been very encouraged about the 147-grain JHP rounds.

I bought some Double Tap 147-grain JHP back in 2007 when DT was loading Gold Dots. I shot most of them up then but kept a couple of mags worth as is my custom. This past summer I decided to compare them with the 125-grain JHP self-defense rounds I'd been carrying in my G-32 and was very pleasantly surprised at the noticeably milder recoil and shooting characteristics.

If the 147-grain .355" bullet is allegedly the be-all-end-all in 9mm self-defense --- so my thinking goes --- what's there to dislike about the same weight/size bullet traveling 300 fps faster through a .357sig? This ought to be the single go-to urban/rural carry round for all occasions, my thinking is.

I picked up some Hornady 147-grain XTP rounds to try out when Spring gets here and I have no doubt they will pass muster. Until then the last thirteen rounds of the 147-grain Double Tap Gold Dots sit in my G-32.

Anyway, as much as I like 125-grain JHP self-defense ammo in my .357sig I do have confidence that the 147-grain JHP self-defense loads might be every bit as good and possibly a step better for all-round effectiveness.
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Old 01-22-2012, 01:28   #15
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I don't think there are any bad .357sig JHP self-defense rounds. But lately I've been very encouraged about the 147-grain JHP rounds.

I bought some Double Tap 147-grain JHP back in 2007 when DT was loading Gold Dots. I shot most of them up then but kept a couple of mags worth as is my custom. This past summer I decided to compare them with the 125-grain JHP self-defense rounds I'd been carrying in my G-32 and was very pleasantly surprised at the noticeably milder recoil and shooting characteristics.

If the 147-grain .355" bullet is allegedly the be-all-end-all in 9mm self-defense --- so my thinking goes --- what's there to dislike about the same weight/size bullet traveling 300 fps faster through a .357sig? This ought to be the single go-to urban/rural carry round for all occasions, my thinking is.

I picked up some Hornady 147-grain XTP rounds to try out when Spring gets here and I have no doubt they will pass muster. Until then the last thirteen rounds of the 147-grain Double Tap Gold Dots sit in my G-32.

Anyway, as much as I like 125-grain JHP self-defense ammo in my .357sig I do have confidence that the 147-grain JHP self-defense loads might be every bit as good and possibly a step better for all-round effectiveness.
Interesting.... Do you have any feed back as to the street cred of the 147gr .357 sig?
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Old 01-22-2012, 08:11   #16
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I believe there was also a 150gr too loading when it first came out...I don't think it did all that great. But that would have also been with older bullet technology. Those Hornady 147gr loadings had me interested as well. Then again, if the Secret Service likes it at 125gr @1400fps...it must be doing something right.

The 147gr 9mm did not come about as a way to make it more of a deep penetrator. It was originally designed for use in silenced MP5s for hostage rescue where head shots were the order of the day. It wasn't until just recently that new bullet technology ensured that it would expand at low velocity reliably for pistol use.
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Old 01-22-2012, 09:53   #17
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Interesting.... Do you have any feed back as to the street cred of the 147gr .357 sig?
None, but then aside from the 125-grain Speer Gold Dot I've never read of any feedback concerning .357sig rounds in actual LEO encounters. This would include Federal HST, Hornady XTP, Remington Golden Saber, etc ...
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Old 01-22-2012, 12:02   #18
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2. The S is for smaller flash hole in the primer pocket.
...allegedly. I've checked dozens of S-labeled Speer nickel 357SIG brass, and all my standard Lee decapping pins fit just finely.
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