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Old 02-17-2012, 09:48   #201
Black Smoke Trail
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Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
So you're basically saying that you think people will call the police on a person with short hair wearing 511 pants because they look like the type of person who might be armed?

If that works for you.
No. Apparently that is what works for you. What I am saying is that when one carrys......it is not just overtly appearing so. It IS a state of mind.

I consider a CCW firearm NO different then the keys in my pocket, or my pocket Swiss Army knife or my wallet. A gun IS a tool albeit one that requires GREAT respect and common sense to own and carry.

I carry in such a way that I do not appear to be armed. No printing, not change in my outward behavior, how I walk, sit, or otherwise. I just go about my business and not even think about the firearm.

I carry insurance on my vehicles, require it for hunt leases, have insurance on my home and farm. I don't go advertising it or behaving any different that I would otherwise because of it. Why would I or should I behave any differently because I carry a firearm??? A firearm is an insurance policy of sorts. You hope you NEVER need to use it and if you are smart.....you use it ONLY when faced with NO other option.

About the only thing that I would say causes me to behave somewhat differently is being VERY mindful of where I go when carrying. In government buildings ONLY the elite, protected, above the law class are considered the "ONLY ONES" (a term borrowed from an aquaintance David Codrea) quailfied enough and trusted enough to carry a firearm in a government building. Also in some private establishments which I observe and respect their decision to not allow firearms on the premises. Private establishments that do prohibit guns, I find ways to boycott if at all possible.

In a nutshell, it boils down to the less people know about you........the better. Go about your business as you always would, live by and deal with others by the "Golden Rule" whenever possible.

A firearem can be a ticket to destroy your life and others lives.......or it can be like any other tool when used with common sense and responsibility to protect your most basic natural born and human right. To LIVE and to protect yourself or those you love. Even discounting the nationwide hoplophobia and anti-gun hysteria, I think it is in many instances just good manners and self gonvernance to carry so nobody knows.

A last and most glaring example in the media as of late would be these IDIOTS who are broadcasting to the world what they are doing and what they have on Nat Geo's "Dooms Day Preppers". It IS their right to do this......even shooting one's thumb off......doesn't mean its very smart though.
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Old 02-17-2012, 14:58   #202
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All I'm saying is why go out of your way to appear as something you're not? I'm in my 40's. I have a gut that speaks to 19 years of marriage. I've worn a flat top hair cut for the last 22 years. All I've ever been is either military or LEO. It doesn't matter what I dress like, I'm going to seem to be exactly what I am. So what? I don't care if people think I might be a cop when I'm off. I just go about my business as usual. I could try and look like an accountant that's never even held a squirt gun in his hands, but what does that accomplish? Make me an easy target? Maybe, maybe not. If some cop killer is in the Circle C when I walk in and decides I look like an off duty cop and tries to kill me...oh well. About as likely as winning the lottery, but we can't control every situation.
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Old 02-17-2012, 15:10   #203
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Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
All I'm saying is why go out of your way to appear as something you're not?
I notice you never responded to my post from the last page. Here it is again. What do you think about these?


"Because some people...

...don't want others to know for personal reasons

...consider the element of surprise to be very important

...worry about the potential for a gun grab

...live in an area where being a gun owner or gun carrier is not generally socially acceptable


Just to name a few"
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Old 02-17-2012, 15:37   #204
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Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
All I'm saying is why go out of your way to appear as something you're not?...
They aren't. They are just being who they are.

Let me put it a little differently. They, which at times includes me, are just being the person they were before they started carrying.
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Old 02-17-2012, 15:55   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
...All I've ever been is either military or LEO. It doesn't matter what I dress like, I'm going to seem to be exactly what I am. So what? I don't care if people think I might be a cop when I'm off. I just go about my business as usual...
As do those who choose to be, as Sam Spade said in Post #1, "the Gray Man".

The reason you do not mind people thinking you are a cop when you're off duty is because you ARE a cop. You act like a cop even when you're off duty. It is probably so ingrained in you by now that, hell, you'll project "COP!!!" stretched out in your coffin many decades from now.
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Old 02-17-2012, 16:03   #206
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Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
I could try and look like an accountant that's never even held a squirt gun in his hands, but what does that accomplish? Make me an easy target? Maybe, maybe not.
See, you couldn't pretend to not be a cop. You'd be worried you'd come off as some 'Clark Kent' a bad guy would come after just for the sport of it. They'd be unpleasantly surprised...but, hey, their bad.

You are you...everyone else is not you.

You make your choices, the ones that fit you the best.

Everyone else make the decisions that are best for them, that fit them.

No one wants you to go all 'accountant'.

Don't begrudge everyone else not wanting to go all 'warrior'.
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Old 02-17-2012, 16:30   #207
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Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
All I'm saying is why go out of your way to appear as something you're not? I'm in my 40's. I have a gut that speaks to 19 years of marriage. I've worn a flat top hair cut for the last 22 years. All I've ever been is either military or LEO. It doesn't matter what I dress like, I'm going to seem to be exactly what I am. So what? I don't care if people think I might be a cop when I'm off. I just go about my business as usual. I could try and look like an accountant that's never even held a squirt gun in his hands, but what does that accomplish? Make me an easy target? Maybe, maybe not. If some cop killer is in the Circle C when I walk in and decides I look like an off duty cop and tries to kill me...oh well. About as likely as winning the lottery, but we can't control every situation.
Something about this bothers me, but I can't put a finger on it. It may be my overseas time, or my plainclothes work, but tactically, something about this is unsettling. I'll have to ponder on it.
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Old 02-17-2012, 16:49   #208
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Originally Posted by Sam Spade View Post
Something about this bothers me, but I can't put a finger on it. It may be my overseas time, or my plainclothes work, but tactically, something about this is unsettling. I'll have to ponder on it.
I imagine a lot of the LEO trainers out there would have something to day about it.
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Old 02-17-2012, 23:09   #209
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For a long time, I have thought that wearing a cap with a gun logo is counterproductive.

However, this exploration of "grayness" caught me off guard with the comment about wearing a left-leaning logo on a cap--which is excellent misdirection.

There may be other actions/apparel/behaviors that we can embrace that lower our interest to observers who may be seeking any tell-tale close that indicate "this guy/gal is carrying!"

For my part, one behavior that I could change would be my usual habit of driving at or 5+ mph over the speed limit. If I were to drive a few mph below the speed limit, that could be a nice "gray behavior" for me to adopt.

Since I was caught off guard by that left-leaning hat logo suggestion, it makes me think that there may be a lot of other misdirection items/behaviors that could enhance my grayness.

If you happen to think of any, please do share them.
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Old 02-17-2012, 23:18   #210
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Originally Posted by random southpaw View Post
For my part, one behavior that I could change would be my usual habit of driving at or 5+ mph over the speed limit. If I were to drive a few mph below the speed limit, that could be a nice "gray behavior" for me to adopt.
I don't see how that is relevant.

Can you explain the reasoning?
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Old 02-18-2012, 22:22   #211
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First off, i would like to say this is a very interesting thread and I enjoyed reading all the responses... With that being said I will give my 2 cents... lol anyway I usually tend to wear 5.11 pants, combat boots (im in the military and live in a military community so it is rather common to see combat boots on people no matter what their attire) a button up short sleeve shirt and an under-armor hat... I would imagine most people by now think it is one of the only styles I have. Im sure if someone is actually looking they could PROBABLY tell only because I keep a spare magazine in the front "tactical" pouch on my pants but my weapon, holster and clips are all hidden... oh and combat boots are extremely comfortable (at least my rocky SV2's are) thats why I wear them...

When Im not wearing my "usual" attire I tend to dress like the country boy I am in blue-jeans, a button-up pearl snap shirt, cowboy boots (again extremely comfortable) and my camo hat... as for my spare magazine I simply bought a black magazine pouch available at wal-mart and if you saw the way I dress you would probably assume its a leatherman or a pocket knife... as for my gun, holster and clips they are completely concealed with my shirt whether tucked or not... (which it usually is)...
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Old 02-19-2012, 15:38   #212
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I came in to offer this as a comfort issue, but it seems to fit well here.

I carry upwa ards of 12 hours a day, for several reasons: the presence of new gang tags in the area, the upswing in home-invasion robberies, the fact that I live with two women, both of whom are disabled...and because I figure that if I carry constantly, I won't be hyperconscious of my carry and wear ten tons of tells. (As far garb, jeans, a good weight western belt with no fancy pie-plate buckle, and a T or tank under a loose overshirt, worn open, is very typical clothing in my area...pancake holster on the back of the hip...no sweat. I never get made, not that I know of. If I'm in a situation with a LEO and feel I ought to offer the fact that I'm armed, not one has said "Yeah, I knew"...so I feel okay with my way.

What I came in to offer, though, is what I was NOT okay with for a while. I've already got a bad back. To be simple here ('cause I get tired of typing) I shopped 'til I found three holsters that carry same position, same angle, same thumb-break...but with different separation of the belt-slides. I take a break twice a day and change holsters and the difference in how they carry the weight has made a world of difference in the fatigue factor!

Just thought I'd offer that.
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:33   #213
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I'm sorry, but your links prove what? That cops are poorly trained? There's only one link in there that even resembles the point of this thread. That is the one where the guy with the knife in his sleeve got shot (with live ammunition loaded into a less lethal shotgun by accident). The rest are either police officers shooting either themselves, or other ON DUTY police officers.

I believe the point you were trying to make is a good one. I also believe you found the wrong material to back up your post.
x2 lol
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Old 04-20-2012, 14:39   #214
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There is nothing Gray about me

There is nothing gray about me...I am 6'5" and 300+ lbs with a shaved head amd just look mean.

I gave up trying to blend in...I was just too noticable in a room or public area.

I am either a big target, a giant "stay away from me sign" or look like a cop.
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:00   #215
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I guess for me, I don't want notice. It's all about knowledge, and that is power. The less anyone knows about me the better. Why would I want anyone to know that I'm carrying??

I do have another issue though. I feel that I need to have equipment with me for my EDC. Flashlight, phone, knifes, mags, etc. I am a skinny average 5'11" frame. How do you carry that stuff without screaming gun?? It is unfortunately very hot here in the summers (TX) and so wearing multiple layers of clothing is difficult. I have made my own kydex/leather IWB appendix holster to better conceal, but in the warm months it is very difficult. In the cooler months I do wear a Scott eVest which helps me to carry the EDC gear, and does cover the appendix carry but everyone knows what people here in TX think when you wear a vest!!

So what are ya'lls EDC and how do you do it and remain shadowbound?
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Old 04-23-2012, 22:28   #216
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Keychain (Steamlight Nano, Fox 40 Whistle, USB Drive) Front right pocket (chapstick, mini Bic Lighter, nail clippers, Benchmade Mini Griptilian. 4oclock IWB Crossbread Supertuck, Kahr PM9 6+1 w/ Hornady Critical Defense 115 gr or Speer Gold Dot 124 gr (no extra mag). Rear right pocket (Wallet, Badge, Department ID), Rear left, iPhone4.

I never wear 511 anything in public with the exception of a steel reinforced brown casual belt. I donít wear any ďmachoĒ MMA, Martial Arts, Firearm, or LE shirts or hats. I blind in for the most part except one thing. Heightened Awareness. Iíve had people tell me they knew I was in law enforcement because I aware of everything that was going on around me. So Iíve even tried to tone that down.

Love this thread, lots of good info here. Even though it is any old thread, it still lives on in relevancy.
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Old 04-23-2012, 22:34   #217
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Originally Posted by amilliron View Post
I guess for me, I don't want notice. It's all about knowledge, and that is power. The less anyone knows about me the better. Why would I want anyone to know that I'm carrying??

I do have another issue though. I feel that I need to have equipment with me for my EDC. Flashlight, phone, knifes, mags, etc. I am a skinny average 5'11" frame. How do you carry that stuff without screaming gun?? It is unfortunately very hot here in the summers (TX) and so wearing multiple layers of clothing is difficult. I have made my own kydex/leather IWB appendix holster to better conceal, but in the warm months it is very difficult. In the cooler months I do wear a Scott eVest which helps me to carry the EDC gear, and does cover the appendix carry but everyone knows what people here in TX think when you wear a vest!!

So what are ya'lls EDC and how do you do it and remain shadowbound?
Cargo pockets. Also I went up in pant sizes (intentionally) since I started carrying (up 50 pounds now) so I have bigger pockets in general to work with.

But seriously, cargo pockets are awesome, especially for wallets and cell phones.
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Old 04-23-2012, 23:36   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAFinch View Post
If you need to occasionally re-seat your gun or pull up your pants, make sure you do it immediately when you get out of your car instead of waiting until you're out in the open to think about doing it. If you do need to adjust your pants in public, first pull out your phone, "check" it, and put back in its holster or pocket, that way it looks like you pushed down your pants a little putting the phone back up. Even if you just need to adjust one side, use both hands to adjust both sides at the same time. Ditto if you think your shirt is riding up around the holster.
GOOD advice.
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Old 04-24-2012, 00:04   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
I don't think the charge would be brandishing unless the state law defines brandishing as printing. If you look up brandishing in the Merriam Webster dictionary you get this definition:
1: to shake or wave (as a weapon) menacingly
2: to exhibit in an ostentatious or aggressive manner
Haha, our "brandishing" law almost follows that definition word-for-word!
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Old 07-10-2012, 21:15   #220
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Loved this thread! Gave me a lot to work on CCW wise
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