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Old 05-19-2013, 19:58   #1
tjshea
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Wished I was carrying

I have not been carrying lately because I have been battling multiple kidney stones and on pain medication. However today I wish I was.

While walking to the St. Pete pier on the sidewalk, I was brushed from behind by a bicyclist who the skidded and went down, almost taking my six year old son with him. He then got up, and yelled at us for not getting out of his way. Then told us that pedestrian's cannot get in the way of bikes. Then starts charging at us arms raised as if he is going to hit me, until I pull out my phone and start calling 911. He then takes off. All of this in front of a sign that states bikes must yield to pedestrians.

This guy was a lot bigger than I am. I am thankful that by taking an aggressive stance, and keeping a cool head took care of the situation. Had it gotten any more heated, I would have wanted to have a gun ready.

My wife has changed her stance, and will now be carrying when I can't.
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Old 05-19-2013, 20:04   #2
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Always good to be carrying, but it sounds like you did exactly the right thing in THIS case. Pulling a pistol on this "Richard" would've been too much. If lunatics deserved a good shooting or even just a brandishing, I'd be pulling my CCW pistol several times a day.
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Old 05-19-2013, 21:28   #3
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Deadly force because of yelling and shoving?

Having a six year old grow up with dad in prison doesn't sound like the best plan.

Maybe think about something like pepper spray for those cases where deadly force is not justifiable but an increased level of force is?
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Old 05-19-2013, 21:44   #4
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Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
Deadly force because of yelling and shoving?

Having a six year old grow up with dad in prison doesn't sound like the best plan.

Maybe think about something like pepper spray for those cases where deadly force is not justifiable but an increased level of force is?

*Good Points...but no one really knows when the "yelling and shoving?" turns into a beat down...which can cause serious headaches/damage or take a life...In this situation having a gun doesnt mean pulling the trigger.

~ "Then starts charging at us arms raised as if he is going to hit me" ~

And he could of easily....good thing he was "sacred" of `the phone`...not everyone is ....some have figured out they can over take someone before they Dial....and even if they do dial it would take awhile for safe results...by then damage would have been done and the bad guy would be long gone.
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Old 05-19-2013, 21:52   #5
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Glad you and your son made it out OK; the most random things can make the day go a lot better or a lot worse sometimes; glad this biker didn't make his day or yours any worse than he did...
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Old 05-19-2013, 21:59   #6
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Say you pull a gun on the guy because you are frightened of him. He backs down, you are happy, but a bystander calls 911 on you for pulling a gun. Perhaps the bystander genuinely believes that you were overreacting and makes a credible report to the police, to that effect. Is the law on your side here? I'm just asking. I don't know.
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Old 05-19-2013, 22:26   #7
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I hate it when bikers take over our public beaches too.

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Old 05-19-2013, 22:40   #8
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Always good to be carrying, but it sounds like you did exactly the right thing in THIS case. Pulling a pistol on this "Richard" would've been too much. If lunatics deserved a good shooting or even just a brandishing, I'd be pulling my CCW pistol several times a day.
Yes, in this case, but we don't know how big you are, what you weigh -- there is 'disparity of force' to consider, and had a much bigger guy started pounding you, it could have gone differently.
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Old 05-19-2013, 23:23   #9
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Sounds like your wife is a keeper...
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Old 05-20-2013, 06:18   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_p View Post
Say you pull a gun on the guy because you are frightened of him. He backs down, you are happy, but a bystander calls 911 on you for pulling a gun. Perhaps the bystander genuinely believes that you were overreacting and makes a credible report to the police, to that effect. Is the law on your side here? I'm just asking. I don't know.
None of us know all the facts so that call can't be made. But remember, whenever you pull a firearm, YOU CALL 911 ASAP and file a report. Most often the first person that calls is looked at as the victim. By not reporting it you can be considered a criminal in many cases until the whole situation is corrected (most likely in a court of law).
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:13   #11
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Drink lots of water - At least 4 quarts each day, and avoid salt, cheese, red meats, and most commercially processed foods. (McDonald's, Popeye's, and Kentucky Fried are definitely out! So is a lot of diner food.) Have you ever heard of Oral Chelation? You might want to read up on the subject.

http://www.extremehealthusa.com/Oral...Chelation.aspx

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Old 05-20-2013, 08:03   #12
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Does not sound to me that that incident would have been one for a firearm. I am glad to hear it worked out well for you.




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... Most often the first person that calls is looked at as the victim. ....
Do you by chance have a reference for that? My limited experience suggests that who called first has little to no bearing on how an incident is handled.
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:57   #13
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Sometimes it's not just about pulling the firearm. Here in TX, and drilled into us in the classes for CHL, we're told that the MINIMUM amount of force must be used. In this case, pulling your phone and calling LEO worked. Beyond that, the next step would be to simply SHOW the aggressor that you are armed. The goal here is to impress upon them and cause a degree of apprehension in the aggressor that would be enough to make him stop his course of action. If showing doesn't work, then the next step would be pulling/drawing to indicate intention; that you will stop the bg from continuing in his course of action. The last two stages, aiming and firing, are of course the last but carry with them the need for a convincing argument that you were indeed fearful for your life and the lives of others near you.

The mindset that must be avoided is "omg a potential crisis here, let me immediately draw my weapon without properly assessing the situation..." Uncle Ben said it best... "with great power comes great responsibility" and it holds true when you CCW. It's not only your situational awareness that must remain sharp, it's how you handle yourself when a situation goes down that is equally important.

Chalk this one up to kismet that you were not carrying. perhaps the planets were aligned properly that you were not able to be carrying that day. Who knows, but you have to remember to face force with equal force. While you may have been right in your position when it all went down, a severe disparity of force might have been your undoing.
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Old 05-20-2013, 09:08   #14
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Does not sound to me that that incident would have been one for a firearm. I am glad to hear it worked out well for you.






Do you by chance have a reference for that? My limited experience suggests that who called first has little to no bearing on how an incident is handled.
I can't remember which book but you can ask the author, Mas Ayoob in the self defense forums here. One of his teaching moments had two people in an altercation and the perpetrator actually called 911 first and blamed it on the victim.
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Old 05-20-2013, 11:24   #15
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Sometimes it's not just about pulling the firearm. Here in TX, and drilled into us in the classes for CHL, we're told that the MINIMUM amount of force must be used. In this case, pulling your phone and calling LEO worked. Beyond that, the next step would be to simply SHOW the aggressor that you are armed. The goal here is to impress upon them and cause a degree of apprehension in the aggressor that would be enough to make him stop his course of action. If showing doesn't work, then the next step would be pulling/drawing to indicate intention; that you will stop the bg from continuing in his course of action. The last two stages, aiming and firing, are of course the last but carry with them the need for a convincing argument that you were indeed fearful for your life and the lives of others near you.

The mindset that must be avoided is "omg a potential crisis here, let me immediately draw my weapon without properly assessing the situation..." Uncle Ben said it best... "with great power comes great responsibility" and it holds true when you CCW. It's not only your situational awareness that must remain sharp, it's how you handle yourself when a situation goes down that is equally important.

Chalk this one up to kismet that you were not carrying. perhaps the planets were aligned properly that you were not able to be carrying that day. Who knows, but you have to remember to face force with equal force. While you may have been right in your position when it all went down, a severe disparity of force might have been your undoing.
Well put! I'm new to guns and I don't carry, but my instincts agree with your statements.
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Old 05-20-2013, 19:38   #16
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I can't remember which book but you can ask the author, Mas Ayoob in the self defense forums here. One of his teaching moments had two people in an altercation and the perpetrator actually called 911 first and blamed it on the victim.

Any idea if that confused the police as to who was the real subject and victim for any length of time?
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Old 05-20-2013, 19:47   #17
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Deadly force because of yelling and shoving?

Having a six year old grow up with dad in prison doesn't sound like the best plan.

Maybe think about something like pepper spray for those cases where deadly force is not justifiable but an increased level of force is?
He didn't say he was gonna cap him cause of 'yelling and shoving'. The guy was twice his size, fist upraised. If he had kept coming and started get to close then yep, use deadly force.

It's called disparancy of force. And if it was in Texas he would be 100 percent justified.

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Old 05-20-2013, 19:55   #18
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...This guy was a lot bigger than I am. I am thankful that by taking an aggressive stance, and keeping a cool head took care of the situation. Had it gotten any more heated, I would have wanted to have a gun ready.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...S7Z-Sjc#t=135s
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Old 05-21-2013, 08:08   #19
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....It's called disparancy of force...
Its called 'disparity' of force. Im not Merriam Webster but I don't believe 'disparancy' is a word.
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Old 05-21-2013, 08:51   #20
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I think we need to work "irresputably" in there. Irresputably there can be disparancy of force issues.
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