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Old 07-20-2011, 13:33   #1
HotRoderX
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Real World Caliber Right Up

Found this linked on a different sight and thought it had really good hard data.

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866

Really good read with real world data on different calibers.
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Old 07-20-2011, 16:35   #2
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I found it interesting but antecdotal as no individual loads or bullets were tracked. It would certainly skew the results if this JHP gave 98% posetive result vs that JHP that gave say 50%. The one thing I know & most any study will show, the 44mag is not in the same league as service calibers, closer to a rifle round.
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Old 07-20-2011, 17:30   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotRoderX View Post
Found this linked on a different sight and thought it had really good hard data.

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866

Really good read with real world data on different calibers.
This article was a previous Glock Talk thread not long ago. I think it may have been the author himself who posted it here.
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Old 07-20-2011, 17:58   #4
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I didn't realize that sorry about that. Any idea what the title of the original write up was?
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Old 07-20-2011, 18:14   #5
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I found it interesting but antecdotal as no individual loads or bullets were tracked. It would certainly skew the results if this JHP gave 98% posetive result vs that JHP that gave say 50%. The one thing I know & most any study will show, the 44mag is not in the same league as service calibers, closer to a rifle round.
Tell that to the bunny, Fred.
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Old 07-20-2011, 20:12   #6
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I didn't realize that sorry about that. Any idea what the title of the original write up was?
No problem. The same articles and threads are very common and after doing a quick search I see that this article was posted yesterday.

The instance I'm thinking of was perhaps a month ago at most. I recall disagreeing with the OP over "all handgun calibers are approximately equal in stopping power" (to paraphrase his conclusion). I agree that any firearm is deadly, but to say all calibers are equal in effectiveness flies in the face of a century or more of evidence.

Maybe somebody with a better search ability can find that thread.
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Old 07-20-2011, 20:29   #7
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just another crappy article written by some guy who needs to try to justify to himself why his 9mm handgun is just as powerful as a 45.

end of the day, its not. describing a torso hit doesnt say anything. a 22 that hits your heart will kill you. a 45 that doesnt strike a vital will not. that doesnt mean a 22 is more effective than a 45.

in order for that article to even show some remote sign of accuracy, you would need to examine each individual shooting and categorize them into what organs, if any were hit. what major arteries and blood vessels were hit. was there drug usage? a guy high on PCP isnt going to feel the pain and psychological side effects of being shot that you or I would.

caliber will always be king. need more proof? fill up two 2 liter bottles full of water. jab a hole in one with an ice pick, then jab a hole in the other with a railroad spike. bigger holes promote more blood loss. heavier bullets penetrate deeper and are not as affected as lighter bullets when passing through foreign barriers (car doors and windshields) and bone (rib cages and breast plates).

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Old 07-20-2011, 20:41   #8
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I just glanced over it but how it can have any meaningful conclusion when it lumps head and and torso together?
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Old 07-20-2011, 21:07   #9
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just another crappy article written by some guy who needs to try to justify to himself why his 9mm handgun is just as powerful effective as a 45. ...

caliber will always be king. need more proof? fill up two 2 liter bottles full of water. jab a hole in one with an ice pick, then jab a hole in the other with a railroad spike. bigger holes promote more blood loss. heavier bullets penetrate deeper and are not as affected as lighter bullets when passing through foreign barriers (car doors and windshields) and bone (rib cages and breast plates).


And, the anology shared is a simple one. I don't get how service caliber debate seems to "dumb" many down, especially when the same phenomenon does not seem to apply in discussion of hunting calibers for big game where most would agree penetration matters most and bullet mass/weight rules for the same reasons stated above.

There is physiological incapacitation and psychological incapacitation. I'll rely on the former. The 9mm is great, and I like it a great deal, but it's not a 230gr .45acp shot-vs-shot comparing best-vs-best, and I don't kid myself otherwise just so I can have 9mm validation. There are MANY very valid reasons that make 9mm a better choice for many/most IMO without the incorrect and/or naive "with modern ammo they're all equal" nonsense
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Last edited by cole; 07-20-2011 at 21:44..
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Old 07-20-2011, 21:35   #10
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Original thread:

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthre...made+lot+sense
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Old 07-20-2011, 21:37   #11
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Tell that to the bunny, Fred.
If I use JHP, can't find enough of the bunny to tell it to.
Seriously, the article has tons of flaws in how the data was collected. Read it, you would believe a 32acp is as effective as a 45acp, uhh, not. The number of rounds striking the target in non lethal ares would drastically skew results, etc. Just too many details missing. Makes M&S seem way more rational.
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Old 07-21-2011, 00:33   #12
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If the person shot was in the act of running (either towards or away from the shooter), he must have fallen to the ground within five feet.



Interesting, average running speed of 15 mph from what I can find, or 22 fps, so they must poof drop in .22 second, when 3-5 sec seems to be referred to as quick incapacitation.

High hopes.
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Old 07-21-2011, 18:04   #13
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If the person shot was in the act of running (either towards or away from the shooter), he must have fallen to the ground within five feet.



Interesting, average running speed of 15 mph from what I can find, or 22 fps, so they must poof drop in .22 second, when 3-5 sec seems to be referred to as quick incapacitation.

High hopes.
The more I read your posts the more I believe you have a hard time learning. Not just this thread but period. It's as if you have a very hard time keeping multiple things within context no matter how simple the concept each item may represent. Maybe you should have faith in your carry caliber and move on because even if the truth you are searching for presents itself I doubt you will be able to grasp it entirely. Just sayin', homie.
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Old 07-21-2011, 18:55   #14
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The more I read your posts the more I believe you have a hard time learning. Not just this thread but period. It's as if you have a very hard time keeping multiple things within context no matter how simple the concept each item may represent. Maybe you should have faith in your carry caliber and move on because even if the truth you are searching for presents itself I doubt you will be able to grasp it entirely. Just sayin', homie.
The more I read you posts, the more I understand, that as soon as something gets technical, you get to whining.

What was so hard to comprehend, that the article flat out said it was expected that someone running, drop within 5 ft.

That someone running, would cover that distance in far less than one second ?

Or that someone stopping and dropping flat within a fraction of a second, is flat out laughable, short of a headshot ?

Who said i'm searching, i'm just enjoying discussion, but apparently the points I brought up were too much for you to comprehend.

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Old 07-21-2011, 19:07   #15
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The more I read you posts, the more I understand, that as soon as something gets technical, you get to whining.

What was so hard to comprehend, that the article flat out said it was expected that someone running, drop within 5 ft.

That someone running, would cover that distance in far less than one second ?

Or that someone stopping and dropping flat within a fraction of a second, is flat out laughable, short of a headshot ?

Who said i'm searching, i'm just enjoying discussion, but apparently the points I brought up were too much for you to comprehend.
Sorry bro, you're not sophisticated enough to escape anyone's grasp... like I said "postS", not just this one. You would enjoy the "discussions" much more if you could absorb the information and keep it in perspective through out said "discussions". Once again, just sayin'...
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Old 07-21-2011, 19:24   #16
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Sorry bro, you're not sophisticated enough to escape anyone's grasp... like I said "postS", not just this one. You would enjoy the "discussions" much more if you could absorb the information and keep it in perspective through out said "discussions". Once again, just sayin'...
Once again, just sayin, apparently it went right over your head.

I guess expecting you to understand simple math was expecting too much.

Oh well.
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