Shot my first lead reloads today - why so smokey?

cowboy1964 · 07-18-2011, 14:50

I shot my first .45 ACP lead today. Wow were they smokey. Same powder as my plated loads (Unique) though obviously a smaller amount.

What is causing all the smoke? Is it the lead vaporizing or the lube? There can't be that much lube on it (using Missouri Bullets 230gr RN).

Johnspark · 07-18-2011, 14:57

Tagged for info. I was wondering this myself.

tackdr1ver · 07-18-2011, 15:01

The lead vaporizes and the lube helps add to the smoke. There is little you can do about it, unfortunately.

GioaJack · 07-18-2011, 15:17

Lead vaporizes at a little over 3100 degrees F... I seriously doubt your barrel achieves that type of temperature. (Lead melts at around 630 to 650 degrees.)

Obviously part of the smoke is from the powder, be it Unique or something else, they all have their individual smoke characteristics.

The additional smoke you notice is caused by the lube and as with powders different lubes have different smoke characteristics.

If you were a caster it would be a simple matter of changing lubes until you found one that meets your needs. (I find that a hard lube smokes considerably less than a soft lube although they all will produce more smoke than a non-lubed bullet.

If you're buying pre-lubed cast bullets you're pretty much stuck with what ever lube the company is using. Call around and see if different companies will send you 100 count sample packs then compare them to each other.

Jack

WiskyT · 07-18-2011, 15:24

Ventilation helps too. My loads smoke, but I don't care because the ventilation in the clubs indoor range is so strong you have to keep your stapler on your stack of targets. There is no lead in the smoke as, Jack pints out, from the bullets. There is lead in the smoke from the primer. That lead was in your jacketed loads, you just didn't know it.

Increasing your powder charge can help. If you want to continue to use a light load for target or whatever reason, you can use a faster powder like Bullseye.

Colorado4Wheel · 07-18-2011, 15:28

It's the 90% the Lube in your case..

G36_Me · 07-18-2011, 16:47

how much unique are you using? I load my plated and lead about the same? just looking to verify "how much less" since the prevailing wisdom is to load lead and plated about the same.

dbarry · 07-18-2011, 16:55

My vote on the smoke is the bullet lube. As you start lowering the charge on medium to slower burning powders you get more smoke too.

I started casting my own and using tumble lube, and I get a lot less smoke w/ tumble lube.

El_Ron1 · 07-18-2011, 17:07

Quote:

The lead vaporizes

fredj338 · 07-18-2011, 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by tackdr1ver

The lead vaporizes and the lube helps add to the smoke. There is little you can do about it, unfortunately.

As Jack notes, lead does NOT vaporize at any appreciable rate on firing. the lube does burn & smoke, depending on the lube composition & the powder used. Some smoke more than others. Unique can be really smokey unless, loaded at the top end.
One advantage, besides cost, of casting your own, you can experiment w/ diff lube combinations & find what works best for you (stop it Jack, I was talking about bullet lubes).

GioaJack · 07-18-2011, 18:10

Astroglide!!!

Oops... sorry.

Jack

Jim Watson · 07-18-2011, 19:14

The smoke is largely smoldering bullet lube.
Moly coated cast smoke less but not as little as plated or jacketed.

The conventional wisdom is that most airborne lead on indoor ranges is from the conventional styphnate primer, supporting the lead free ammunition business.
There was one study that found a large contribution as lead fume burnt off the bullet base and rubbed off by barrel friction. But it is easier and more profitable to sell new primers.

DoctaGlockta · 07-18-2011, 19:44

I have the same thing happen to me (I use Unique as well). A RO once came by and asked me to put out my cigar.

I love the looks I get from guys next to me in my lane wondering wth is going on.

Wear all that smoke like a badge of Reloading Honor.

**DWARREN123** · 07-18-2011, 20:36

The bullet lube, lead bullets must be lubed and that where the smoke comes from.

jmorris · 07-19-2011, 07:45

Quote:

Moly coated cast smoke less but not as little as plated or jacketed.

Just to note, if you take cast and sized lead bullets and run them in a Lyman moly coat tumbler they will come out looking like black mirrors, the most beautiful bullets you have seen. The rest of the story is that they leave black spider web like deposits down the bore and "smoke" more than plated.

The coated, often called moly, bullets from Precision and others only contain small portions of moly. In the sample I have, the MSDS says 10%.

To answer the OP's question, you already know. Plated = no smoke. Cast lead = smoke.

Zombie Steve · 07-19-2011, 09:12

Consider shooting outdoors, fellers.

Zombie Steve · 07-19-2011, 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Ron1

If our Chief Science Officer and Primer Pocket Cleaning Czar, El_Ron1 is confused, then so am I.

GioaJack · 07-19-2011, 09:19

We really don't have a lot of potential black powder shooters around here. Bunch of sissy flatlanders.

Jack

Zombie Steve · 07-19-2011, 10:52

Lessee... how many guys were in that match that I beat having never shot black powder before?

GioaJack · 07-19-2011, 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zombie Steve

Lessee... how many guys were in that match that I beat having never shot black powder before?

Let me see if I can remember this correctly. Oh, yeah, you didn't beat anybody, the only reason they applauded you was because you didn't wound anyone.

I am still being made sport of for bringing a pilgrim to the shoot. Apparently I'm on probation for eternity plus three-days.

Jack

Zombie Steve · 07-19-2011, 11:58

I seem to remember a couple dozen guys and coming in 7th using gear I'd never laid eyes on before the match. That's why you're on probation. You brought in someone that can shoot and wasn't willing to listen to all their shooting lore.

ColCol · 07-19-2011, 17:12

I all but quit using Unique because of this and went to Universal. That, along with AA#5 or HS-6 in the 45 ACP went a good ways eliminating most of the smoke indoors. You'll never eliminate it all-especially at indoor ranges. You may also want to try Carnuba Red or BAC lube from White Label Lube. It's better than most I've tried.

http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/

albyihat · 07-19-2011, 20:16

I use Missouri bullet co. bullets as well and I went to WSF and the smoke level went down noticeably.

cowboy1964 · 07-21-2011, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by G36_Me

how much unique are you using? I load my plated and lead about the same? just looking to verify "how much less" since the prevailing wisdom is to load lead and plated about the same.

I started out a bit lower with the lead charge as I had been loading the plated a little too hot. I think I'm at about 5.0gr of Unique right now. Also I noticed the lead bullet extends into the case just a bit more than the plated, even when both are at same OAL. Probably not enough to really raise pressure more than an iota though.

cowboy1964 · 07-21-2011, 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by albyihat

I use Missouri bullet co. bullets as well and I went to WSF and the smoke level went down noticeably.

I'll try that, thanks. Do you have a ratio of Unique to WSF that you've found to work? (in other words, 5.0 of Unique is 4.5 of WSF, etc).