Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-13-2011, 11:17   #1
SawgrassRaven
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,949


Question for Frank, AG, AM, et al...

I want to start off by saying I really appreciate the long, educated, intelligent, coherent posts you guys write. You have the patience that I lost a long time ago when dealing with believers, religious persons, etc.

My question is, why bother?

These faithful folks will never be swayed no matter how much evidence you present. They shove their index fingers first-knuckle deep into their ears and shout "LALALALALA" while you speak. Nothing will remove the Bible Blinders from their eyes. They will continue to hammer the square peg into the round hole as long as they have to make excuses for their beliefs. They argue with emotion, not intellect. And as the saying goes, you cannot use reason to argue away an idea that was not based on reason in the first place.

I admire you guys, I really do. But these people will never pick up 'Atheist Universe' or 'God Delusion' (two of my favorites) or any other book that challenges their beliefs and will continue to put forth the same tired arguments in defense of the absurd, ridiculous nonsense that they want taught in schools.

I love the debates and the stuff you guys post, but man it's got to be tiring. Keep up the good work!

SawgrassRaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 11:19   #2
FifthFreedom
Senior Member
 
FifthFreedom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Pa
Posts: 1,874
Send a message via AIM to FifthFreedom
[QUOTE=SawgrassRaven;17624544
I admire you guys, I really do. But these people will never pick up 'Atheist Universe' or 'God Delusion' (two of my favorites) or any other book that challenges their beliefs
[/QUOTE]



Actually I have that book in my personal library as I type, and yes, have read it. But it's good to know that you can read minds can tell us "faithful folks" what we will/will not do.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

שנית מסדה לא תיפול
FifthFreedom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 11:26   #3
frank4570
Feral human
 
frank4570's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cul Va
Posts: 17,480
Blog Entries: 1
I was just kind of shocked to find people who were trying to discredit science and evolution, actually didn't understand it at all.
__________________
Fear your government.
"Rats aren't creepy, experimenting on them IS." Emilie Autumn.

For too long people have said "screw NY, IL, etc" or "that'll never happen here." Yes, it will eventually. If we dont start standing up together now, it will never stop.-ilgunguygt
frank4570 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 11:29   #4
FifthFreedom
Senior Member
 
FifthFreedom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Pa
Posts: 1,874
Send a message via AIM to FifthFreedom
Frank.
I am equally surprised that people can think "it's all a big accident"
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

שנית מסדה לא תיפול
FifthFreedom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 11:30   #5
SawgrassRaven
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,949


Quote:
Originally Posted by FifthFreedom View Post
Actually I have that book in my personal library as I type, and yes, have read it. But it's good to know that you can read minds can tell us "faithful folks" what we will/will not do.
I used to be one. I have a great idea what believers think and what motivates them. Another fundie misconception; that us heathens have no clue about 'faith'.

Thanks for playing.

SawgrassRaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 11:32   #6
FifthFreedom
Senior Member
 
FifthFreedom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Pa
Posts: 1,874
Send a message via AIM to FifthFreedom
Quote:
Originally Posted by SawgrassRaven View Post
I used to be one. I have a great idea what believers think and what motivates them. Another fundie misconception; that us heathens have no clue about 'faith'.

Thanks for playing.

Oh I don't think you are clueless, but you seem to think YOUR experience gives you the right to paint everyone with the same broad brush.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

שנית מסדה לא תיפול
FifthFreedom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 11:32   #7
SawgrassRaven
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,949


Sources please of astrophysicists, geologists, paleontologists, etc. who have maintained it was "all a big accident".

We'll wait.

Last edited by SawgrassRaven; 07-13-2011 at 11:36..
SawgrassRaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 11:34   #8
FifthFreedom
Senior Member
 
FifthFreedom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Pa
Posts: 1,874
Send a message via AIM to FifthFreedom
Quote:
Originally Posted by SawgrassRaven View Post
Sources please of astrophysicists, geologists, paleontologists, etc. who have maintained it was "all a big accident".

We'll wait.

Yes we will
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

שנית מסדה לא תיפול
FifthFreedom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 11:39   #9
dbcooper
Senior Member
 
dbcooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,138
Quote:
Originally Posted by FifthFreedom View Post
Frank.
I am equally surprised that people can think "it's all a big accident"
I find it equally surprising that people believe that to acknowledge evolution and the big bang is to deny their deity, I seem to recall something about his mysterious ways and such.
dbcooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 11:53   #10
FifthFreedom
Senior Member
 
FifthFreedom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Pa
Posts: 1,874
Send a message via AIM to FifthFreedom
I am sure sawgrass never picked up a copy and read The Guide for the Perplexed by Moses Maimonides either.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

שנית מסדה לא תיפול
FifthFreedom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 12:02   #11
Schabesbert
Senior Member
 
Schabesbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 10,616


Quote:
Originally Posted by dbcooper View Post
I find it equally surprising that people believe that to acknowledge evolution and the big bang is to deny their deity, I seem to recall something about his mysterious ways and such.
Now THIS I agree with. Whether evolution is true or not is yet to be proven, yet the evidence is considerable. The "big bang" even moreso.

dbcooper, do you know who it was that proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin of the Universe, and what his occupation was?
__________________
He is no fool who exchanges that which he cannot keep for that which he can never lose.

Ho kurios mou, kai ho theos mou
Schabesbert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 12:11   #12
Smacktard
Senior Member
 
Smacktard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,161


I think the faithful should get down on their knees and pray that there is a God, and hope that God isn't planning on eating them in the future.

...
__________________
Did I mention there are at least 7 billion opinions on earth, of which yours is only one?

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."
- Joseph Goebbels, Minister of Propaganda in Nazi Germany.
Smacktard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 12:11   #13
dbcooper
Senior Member
 
dbcooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,138
I believe it was Hubble
dbcooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 12:19   #14
SawgrassRaven
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,949


Quote:
Originally Posted by FifthFreedom View Post
I am sure sawgrass never picked up a copy and read The Guide for the Perplexed by Moses Maimonides either.
More assumptions.

Maimonides maintained that one should consider all theories. That's great, do you do that? If so, bravo! When does evidence do away with some religious theories? At what point does the idea become absurd?

Why do we have to assign the universe to a 'god' of any kind? 'God did it' shouldn't be the default answer of something we do not know.
SawgrassRaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 12:25   #15
dbcooper
Senior Member
 
dbcooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,138
Quote:
Originally Posted by SawgrassRaven View Post
More assumptions.

Maimonides maintained that one should consider all theories. That's great, do you do that? If so, bravo! When does evidence do away with some religious theories? At what point does the idea become absurd?

Why do we have to assign the universe to a 'god' of any kind? 'God did it' shouldn't be the default answer of something we do not know.

Especially when you consider that in the history of everything known to man there was a time when it wasn't.
dbcooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 13:27   #16
Schabesbert
Senior Member
 
Schabesbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 10,616


Quote:
Originally Posted by dbcooper View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
Now THIS I agree with. Whether evolution is true or not is yet to be proven, yet the evidence is considerable. The "big bang" even moreso.

dbcooper, do you know who it was that proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin of the Universe, and what his occupation was?
I believe it was Hubble
It was Georges Lemaître. FATHER Georges Lemaître.

"a Belgian priest, astronomer and professor of physics at the Catholic University of Louvain. He sometimes used the title Abbé or Monseigneur."
__________________
He is no fool who exchanges that which he cannot keep for that which he can never lose.

Ho kurios mou, kai ho theos mou
Schabesbert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 15:35   #17
ArtificialGrape
CLM Number 265
Charter Lifetime Member
 
ArtificialGrape's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 5,950
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
It was Georges Lemaître. FATHER Georges Lemaître.

"a Belgian priest, astronomer and professor of physics at the Catholic University of Louvain. He sometimes used the title Abbé or Monseigneur."
yep, Lemaître suggested it in the 1920s, and it received little attention until 1965 when Penzias and Wilson, 2 scientists at Bell Labs determined (with a little help from scientists at Princeton) that the static they were picking up in their large antennae was cosmic background radiation predicted by Gamow in the 1940s as evidence of the Big Bang.

The term Big Bang was coined by a critic to be derogatory of the theory, but the term was soon universally adopted. The term is actually inaccurate in that it does not describe the t=0 explosion, but begins with the very rapid expansion the instant after t=0.

-ArtificialGrape
ArtificialGrape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 16:07   #18
dbcooper
Senior Member
 
dbcooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
It was Georges Lemaître. FATHER Georges Lemaître.

"a Belgian priest, astronomer and professor of physics at the Catholic University of Louvain. He sometimes used the title Abbé or Monseigneur."
I knew that one, just spaced out, parden the pun, I've been in brainlock for days now and just aint up to google today. The church has done alot in the field
dbcooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 16:11   #19
ArtificialGrape
CLM Number 265
Charter Lifetime Member
 
ArtificialGrape's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 5,950
Blog Entries: 1
Regarding "why bother"...

Why would anybody bother running on a 3rd party ticket for president?

Animal Mother and others have been defenders of the realm (of reason) much longer than I.

I may not sway a Christian to abandon faith in favor of reason, but perhaps they open their mind to the science, and they find a way to reconcile science with their faith, and they no longer maintain as adversarial an attitude towards science.

Maybe a middle of the road lurker heads down the path of reason -- I do occasionally receive "thanks" from this demographic.

Religious faith is on a collision course with civilization. How long before religious terrorists have nuclear weapons with some range capability? Blind faith that allows educated people from comfortable backgrounds to abandon reason and believe that they know what the creator of the universe wants from them is not a good thing.

-ArtificialGrape
ArtificialGrape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 16:17   #20
SawgrassRaven
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,949


Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape View Post
Regarding "why bother"...

Why would anybody bother running on a 3rd party ticket for president?

Animal Mother and others have been defenders of the realm (of reason) much longer than I.

I may not sway a Christian to abandon faith in favor of reason, but perhaps they open their mind to the science, and they find a way to reconcile science with their faith, and they no longer maintain as adversarial an attitude towards science.

Maybe a middle of the road lurker heads down the path of reason -- I do occasionally receive "thanks" from this demographic.

Religious faith is on a collision course with civilization. How long before religious terrorists have nuclear weapons with some range capability? Blind faith that allows educated people from comfortable backgrounds to abandon reason and believe that they know what the creator of the universe wants from them is not a good thing.

-ArtificialGrape

Understood AG. Thanks for fighting the good fight. I need to get back in it. Like I said, I appreciate what you guys do.

SawgrassRaven is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:02.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 941
253 Members
688 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31