Cost per round?

walrus108 · 07-01-2011, 16:17

***I have recently purchased a 10mm EAA Witness Match. Awesome gun that has been totally reliable and extremely accurate with CCI Blazer 200gr with a claimed velocity of 1050. I have searched for hours for the past few days looking for specific answers. Can't find them so I'm starting a few threads, each with a different question. Please see my other post if you think you can help. Thanks***

I want to start reloading so I can shoot this gun more. I can get that blazer ammo for $0.50 per/rnd. What are you frugal ones with experience paying per round to load good, accurate full power (but not extreme) 10mm? A related question, would i be better off buying loaded rounds bulk, shooting them, and saving the brass? Or buy once fired brass and load it myself?

_The_Shadow · 07-01-2011, 18:23

If you are just starting from scratch the start up cost can be more than bulk bullet purchases when you figure in the time and effort. But when you consider you can produce match quality custom handloads for tthe 10mm the savings add up to about 1/2 to 3/4 of what the commercial stuff cost. The more you load over time the more return on the investment.

The cost is all based on which componnets you choose especially bullets...Real copper jacketed bullet are costly but great performers.

That being said I cast my own bullets from wheel weight materials that I essencially got for near nothing so only my time, electricty an mould cost figure into the actual bullet cost. Therefore cost are minimal and they shoot very well with proper loading.

Plated bullets are cheaper alternative to jacketed bullets but care needs to be taken not to over drive them or over crimp them. The plating can be damaged and their performance will suffer.

The thing about handloading is a labor of love in that you control every aspect of the processes producing quality ammo to your specifications.

Enjoy and be safe!

BenKeith · 07-01-2011, 20:06

Bullets $100 - $135 per 1000 much more for high quality bullets
CCI 300 Primers $35 per 1000
Powder $20 - $30 per 1000
StarLine Brass $150 per 1000

Time spent loading 1000 with limited, single stage equipment = hours

I only buy new, StarLine brass, that way I know what quality brass I have and I only load extreme loads in new brass, then only use it for lighter loaded, practice ammo after shooting one hot load out of it.

I figure that little extra security with quality brass is worth a lot more than having a gun turn loose in your hand when cheap brass fails.

ModGlock17 · 07-01-2011, 20:08

I've thinking about reloading as well, from the economic aspect. Brass ~19cents, Bullet ~12cents, etc. The best number I can come up with for reloading is somewhere sub-$.40 per round. Is this correct?

I can buy fairly OK 10mm ammo for $.44 per round shipped. Not too much savings.

So the real driver has to be "having control" on power levels and the operational engineering aspect of it.

Now if I look at hi-power rounds, they can be easily $1-$2 each. Even at $.50 per round reloading, it is worth it.

What's holding me back is that I have no access to places where I can fire the reloads. Wish I have 10 acres in the woods. Indoor ranges around my place prohibit reloaded ammo, for good reason. I would stay away from newbie reloaders if they show up at the range.

hubcap500 · 07-01-2011, 20:39

Many years ago I figured that I could load a factory equivalent bullet at about three or four to one ratio. If I cast my own bullet, it was about 10 to 1. I'd imagine the ratios are still about the same. That of course depends too on how much reloading equipment you decide to buy.

**texas 48** · 07-01-2011, 21:44

The ammo u are buying for .44 per round are bunny fart loads equivalent to middle velocity
40 S&W. You can make full power high quality round with new components cost is about .42 per round. Double tap medium velocity but good round is about .90 per unit. Cost drops to .23 per round using fired brass with the same velocity and better quality than Double Tap. savings 1/2 to 3/4 of commercial ammo

walrus108 · 07-01-2011, 22:01

The major cost seem to be brass and bullets.

Just how many times can I reload the brass if I keep pressures low? I've noticed in the reloading manuals that some very fast loads aren't at all high pressure, so pressure doesn't seem to equate to what most would call 'hot' loads.

So maybe the first 500 would be relatively costly, but if I reuse all my brass, the second and beyond would be fairly inexpensive. Does that sound about right?

MinervaDoe · 07-01-2011, 22:24

My guestimate for reloading my used brass with plated bullets is 16 cents a round. If I include the cost of brass, it is 33 cents per round.

Quote:

Just how many times can I reload the brass if I keep pressures low?

I've seen someone on this forum mention that they have reloaded their 10mm brass eleven times.

When you are trying to calculate the cost of powder, keep in mind that there are 7,000 grains in a pound of powder.

Electrikkoolaid · 07-01-2011, 22:29

The first bullet you reload is the most expensive.

21Carrier · 07-02-2011, 00:14

GET INTO RELOADING!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ESPECIALLY if you are shooting 10mm. The CRAP you get in bulk will be worthless compared to what you can make. It is anemic, barely hotter than .40S&W AT BEST. If you like the idea of shooting .40S&W out of 10mm cases in your 10mm gun, then by all means, keep buying the cheap bulk stuff.

On the other hand, you can front the money for a loading setup, save SOME money (in the long-run), though likely not THAT much. You will, however, shoot a good bit more, and more importantly, you will be shooting REAL 10mm stuff. Even warm reloads will absolutely blow that bulk ammo out of the water. My warm 180gr reloads are doing about 1225fps. Now THAT is 10mm target ammo!!! My 200gr loads would be doing about 1100fps (but REALLY doing 1100fps).

Just do it, and never look back. It is obsessively fun, and being able to make fifty each of 5-10 different loadings (different weight bullets/different power levels) to take to the range is absolutely PRICELESS. No longer will you be shooting the same boring, weak load over and over. Want some nuclear stuff, load it up. Want some bunny-fart stuff, load it up. Want to go hunting, load it up. The diversity and range of 10mm should not be imprisoned by factory ammo.

About buying bulk and saving brass, DO IT!!! While you're shooting all this junk ammo, and getting ready for reloading, you're just racking up brass. And it will likely be GOOD brass, that you KNOW is only once-fired. The "once-fired" bulk brass you buy is just range pick-up, so who knows if some have been fired twenty times. I know some use it, but the only brass I use is once-fired Remington UMC (fired by ME, awesome nickel brass) and new Starline (or any new brass).

GET INTO RELOADING!!! You will NEVER regret it, I swear. BTW, did I capitalize enough words in this post for y'all?! Can you tell I'm REALLY enthusiastic about reloading 10mm? Seriously, though, it is the most fun you will have with a pistol. Amazing caliber, but to get all you can from it, reloading is a MUST.

BenKeith · 07-02-2011, 04:34

If you shoot or want to shoot a 10mm very much, and live on a budget like most of us, you can't afford not to reload them.

I bought my Glock 20 about four months ago. This is the first handgun I've actually put any effort into learning how to shoot and carry. Being somewhat of a newbee to handgruns, I'm up to approx 2,600 rounds through it in those four months, getting where I'm good enough to feel comfortable I can actually get off some quick shots and hit something if I needed to. If I was having to buy even cheap, loaded ammo, it would have been tough on my bank account.

If you shoot much, it won't take long to recoupe the cost of a cheap, Lee Press and four die set. Plus the fact, you can load REAL 10mm loads.

I've been reloading 44 years so all I had to buy was a set of dies, but just the 10mm alone would have been enough to make me start loading if I wasn't already, because of the cost and quality of available ammo.

GTRhino24 · 07-02-2011, 07:10

I'm a spreadsheet guy by profession so the first logical thing for me to do was calculate cost per round based on raw materials. Since I planned on loading mostly target rounds, I used good brass/powder/primers but decided that the bullets would be the only variable really. Here are the costs associated with the first and second loads. I plan on getting at least 10 loads with Starline and an aftermarket barrel since I don't run em too far past posted maxes.

1st load (1000 rds):
Starline Brass - $.15/rd
CCI 300 Primers - $.03/rd
Power Pistol - $.02/rd
180 JHP Magnus - $.18/rd
Total - $.38/rd or $19/box

2nd load (1000 rds):
Starline Brass - $.00 <-- That feels good.

Everything else is the same.
Total - $.21/rd or $10.50/box

I have a blast reloading so the labor part doesn't bother me in the least. Do I save money? Probably not because now I shoot 2-300rds per trip to the range.

nickE10mm · 07-02-2011, 08:33

After all said and done, I think I pay around 12 15 cents per round using reloaded cases and cheap (lead or plated) bullets. If I step up to new brass and nicer, more expensive or specialty bullets, my price is closer to 22-25 cents a round.

Still, $6-$12/box of 50 is DANG GOOD!!!

Do yourself a favor and start reloading...

ps... the reason I don't count my brass cost is that I haven't bought any yet! I saved my factory brass for a year or more before getting starting reloading so I consider it free, water under the bridge.

GTRhino24 · 07-02-2011, 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickE10mm

After all said and done, I think I pay around 12 15 cents per round using reloaded cases and cheap (lead or plated) bullets. If I step up to new brass and nicer, more expensive or specialty bullets, my price is closer to 22-25 cents a round.

Still, $6-$12/box of 50 is DANG GOOD!!!

Do yourself a favor and start reloading...

Yeah, I forgot to mention that I paid a little more for the jacketed bullets because I didn't yet have an aftermarket barrel. Now that I have that (LW 5.5"), I can get some plated or lead Rainier and get it down to $.16-.17 per rd. I don't think I'll ever start molding my own so that's about as cheap as I'm going to see it.

As far as "designer" bullets, those are little treats you can pick up here and there. Since you already have the other components, it doesn't sting so bad if you want to whip up some hot loads every now and then. Shooting hot 10mm hand loads for the cost of "bunny fart" 9mm is awesome in itself.

MinervaDoe · 07-02-2011, 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRhino24

Yeah, I forgot to mention that I paid a little more for the jacketed bullets because I didn't yet have an aftermarket barrel. Now that I have that (LW 5.5"), I can get some plated or lead Rainier and get it down to $.16-.17 per rd. I don't think I'll ever start molding my own so that's about as cheap as I'm going to see it.

You can shoot plated bullets through a stock Glock barrel. All the competition shooters do.
You just need to keep the speed below 1,200 fps though.

Taterhead · 07-02-2011, 11:56

Buy Starline brass direct. No shipping charged. It will be less than $150 for a thousand. I get an average of 9 loads from my 10mm brass. So 9000 loads for $150 really contributes to savings. For bullets, guys mentioned plated, and I shoot a lot of them. A lot of clubs will organize a group buy so the savings can be pretty good. I have purchased Berry's 180 gr plated through my club's group order and paid less than $90 per tbousand. So the average cost of range ammo for me has been as low as:

Brass: $0.02
bullet: $0.09
Powder: $0.04
Primer: $0.03
Total: $18/100

That is rounding up.

Full power defense loads using new brass:

Brass: $0.14
Bullet: $0.19
Powder: $0.04
Primer: $0.03
Total: $40/100
Compare that to the cost of premium SD ammo and you see pretty good savings.

TDC20 · 07-02-2011, 12:34

If you want to become a good/great/exceptional shooter, you have to send a lot of lead downrange (practice). If you're going to be shooting a lot, you will need a lot of money or you will become a hand loader.

One thing to consider is if you have a shop nearby where you can purchase powders and primers. If not, you will have to mail order those and they hit you with an extra fee for hazardous shipping (I think it's somewhere around $25, but I have never paid it because I live in reloader's paradise

). You can't ship both powder and primers on the same hazardous shipment fee, either, so that's $25 each. That hurts, so keep that in mind, too.

nickE10mm · 07-02-2011, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDC20

If you want to become a good/great/exceptional shooter, you have to send a lot of lead downrange (practice). If you're going to be shooting a lot, you will need a lot of money or you will become a hand loader.

One thing to consider is if you have a shop nearby where you can purchase powders and primers. If not, you will have to mail order those and they hit you with an extra fee for hazardous shipping (I think it's somewhere around $25, but I have never paid it because I live in reloader's paradise

). You can't ship both powder and primers on the same hazardous shipment fee, either, so that's $25 each. That hurts, so keep that in mind, too.

Yep, and for me... well, I work ten minutes away from Graf's Reloading. Lucky me!!

walrus108 · 07-03-2011, 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by 21Carrier

GET INTO RELOADING!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ESPECIALLY if you are shooting 10mm. The CRAP you get in bulk will be worthless compared to what you can make. It is anemic, barely hotter than .40S&W AT BEST. If you like the idea of shooting .40S&W out of 10mm cases in your 10mm gun, then by all means, keep buying the cheap bulk stuff.

On the other hand, you can front the money for a loading setup, save SOME money (in the long-run), though likely not THAT much. You will, however, shoot a good bit more, and more importantly, you will be shooting REAL 10mm stuff. Even warm reloads will absolutely blow that bulk ammo out of the water. My warm 180gr reloads are doing about 1225fps. Now THAT is 10mm target ammo!!! My 200gr loads would be doing about 1100fps (but REALLY doing 1100fps).

Just do it, and never look back. It is obsessively fun, and being able to make fifty each of 5-10 different loadings (different weight bullets/different power levels) to take to the range is absolutely PRICELESS. No longer will you be shooting the same boring, weak load over and over. Want some nuclear stuff, load it up. Want some bunny-fart stuff, load it up. Want to go hunting, load it up. The diversity and range of 10mm should not be imprisoned by factory ammo.

About buying bulk and saving brass, DO IT!!! While you're shooting all this junk ammo, and getting ready for reloading, you're just racking up brass. And it will likely be GOOD brass, that you KNOW is only once-fired. The "once-fired" bulk brass you buy is just range pick-up, so who knows if some have been fired twenty times. I know some use it, but the only brass I use is once-fired Remington UMC (fired by ME, awesome nickel brass) and new Starline (or any new brass).

GET INTO RELOADING!!! You will NEVER regret it, I swear. BTW, did I capitalize enough words in this post for y'all?! Can you tell I'm REALLY enthusiastic about reloading 10mm? Seriously, though, it is the most fun you will have with a pistol. Amazing caliber, but to get all you can from it, reloading is a MUST.

I LOVE it man! LOL

Very informative post and couldn't be more enthusiastic. All of you guys told me just what I needed to hear. I'm taking your advice. I am ordering the kit.

Thank-you all for the info.

MinervaDoe · 07-03-2011, 18:45

Good choice. The initial outlay is a huge chunk, but then later, you'll be shooting when other people are home talking about how expensive ammunition is.

Welcome to the club. Get several reloading manuals and read up on how to set up your dies and powder measures and then get back to us with questions, questions, questions.

21Carrier · 07-04-2011, 01:46

Walrus108, I was out shooting with another GT member, and 10mm shooter today. We were both talking about how it feels so different to shoot reloads. Not in a tactile sense, but how you feel about it. When I would shoot factory ammo, I always felt like I was watching my money go downrange. It was like I was counting it up in my brain. Boom, $0.80, boom, $0.80, boom, $0.80. I would almost try to shoot slowly, or conserve ammo, because I just felt like I was just throwing away money. I was getting to the point of skipping opportunities to shoot, just because I didn't want to have to spend more money.

When you reload, that feeling TOTALLY goes out the window. I don't know why, because I definitely spend more money now. However, I shoot about 5 times more than I did. When I shoot my reloads, they just feel totally expendable. Before, I didn't like doing rapid-fire mag dumps just because it felt like a waste. Now, I couldn't care less. I blew through two mags a couple weeks ago just trying to hit a dragonfly (I eventually got him, all I found was one of his wings). It is just such a great feeling. It is so incredibly nice to just shoot and shoot and shoot without feeling guilty about it.

Anyway, you have made the best shooting decision of your life. Believe me, in a month you will wonder why you ever spent money on loaded ammo. The feeling you will have the first time you shoot ammo that YOU MADE is just awesome. And, again, it is so much more fun being able to take lots of different loads to the range. Today, when I went shooting, I had four different loads with 50 rounds each, then two more boxes with a combined 10 different loads with expensive SD bullets. Have fun loading, and welcome to the club!!!

GTRhino24 · 07-04-2011, 06:22

I used to take 3-4 boxes of 10mm ammo to the indoor range. I would only load 5 at a time so that I could make it last. After less than an hour, I would be finished. I would get in my truck and feel sick to my stomach that I spent $100 and didn't even get my fix.

Fast-forward to now -

I shot about 150rds yesterday and was only disappointed that I didn't free up more used brass to reload. I woke up planning some new loads to try out next week. It's an addiction man, but much healthier than most.

**DWARREN123** · 07-04-2011, 07:05

I like IMR 800-X powder, low pressure stuff but hard to get it to drop consistant from a powder measure. I also use Longshot for 10mm since I use it in my 40 S&W loads, good power and accurate.
If loaded to factory 40 S&W or even basic 10mm factory loads brass will last to 8 ot 10 loads at least for me, depends on chamber/gun.
Have fun and be safe!

nickE10mm · 07-04-2011, 12:30

Yep .. I used to spend a LOT of money periodically on DT, UMC and any other ammo I could get my hands on. I'd save up and plan a trip to the range. I might have 2-3 boxes of ammo. I'd always hate shooting all of my ammo because who knows when I'd be able to get more. (Save ONE mag full for defense....)

Now that I reload, I usually have about 400 rounds headed to the range and when I'm done shooting I always have lots of ammo left over.... and NO bad feeling in my stomach .... Just a hankerin' to get downstairs again and load it all up again.

***whenmonkeysfly*** · 07-25-2011, 17:24

Recycle Brass = 10mm Auto at $8.50/Box of 50 or $17/100 Rounds (17 cents apiece vs 80 to 84 cents apiece - DT price). Better quality than Double Tap (good full-house loads) which costs ~$42/Box of 50, plus shipping.

Using Recycled Brass (my own) I can produce 1000 Rounds of Premium 10mm for $170. Buying Double Tap, $800/1000 with free shipping.

I don't think I really save a lot of money because I shoot A LOT MORE. Shoot less and save more. 200 dollars a month allows me to easily shoot a thousand rounds a month and replace worn/lost brass in the mix, plus purchase case cleaner and lube.

I could probably save a lot more if I molded my own bullets, but I'm not quite there yet....

I currently use Montana Gold CMJ's, TMJ's or JHP's. Specialty like Hornady's XTP's for a bit more.

So overall price per round with an excellent bullet and a great full-house load, 17 Cents!