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Old 06-24-2011, 08:24   #1
Poolman21
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Need you opinions, please

I can't make up my mind about two huge decisions regarding my AR and I would appreciate some input.

First off, I love the Aimpoint H-1 specs. I love the durability, battery life, and I especially love the weight. There is only one problem, I simply do not like the look of it on an AR. My choice is between an H-1 and an Eotech 512. I want to be able to magnify the red dot without having to use a cantilever mount, so these appear to be my best options (I'm not interested in an ACOG). So I guess it really comes down to weight vs appearance since the other differences (battery life, durability, cost) aren't large enough factors for me to base my decision on.

My next issue is my upper. I have a lightly used BCM M4 16" upper. I want to remove the fixed front sight post and put a DD low profile gas block on and a DD Lite 12" rail. So I'll have $390 in the rail and $60 in the gas block plus cost to install everything (anything else I'm missing?) and I'll still have a used upper with a carbine length gas system. I can buy a new bcm middy with the rail already installed for $875. So do you think I should just sell my upper ($400?) and buy the new one or put the money into my old one?

I've been pondering all of this for some time now and cannot seem to make up my mind. Let me know what you guys would do and why.

Thanks

Last edited by Poolman21; 06-24-2011 at 10:09..
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Old 06-24-2011, 09:19   #2
MrMurphy
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If you seriously are more worried about aesthetics than having a functional working optic that may save your life some day.......


You're a range commando. Sell your toys and invest in Matchbox cars.
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Old 06-24-2011, 09:24   #3
Poolman21
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Originally Posted by MrMurphy View Post
If you seriously are more worried about aesthetics than having a functional working optic that may save your life some day.......


You're a range commando. Sell your toys and invest in Matchbox cars.
Please, correct me if i'm wrong, but you're saying an eotech isn't a "functional working optic"?
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Old 06-24-2011, 10:17   #4
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Poolman, everyone is concerned w/ the way their rifle looks. I understand you're looking for a functional higher end optic but would also like it to be appealing. Look at all the pic threads throughout the AR forums.

I personally like the looks of the H1/T1 much more than huge 512. The H1/T1 is arguably the more rugged optic but have you looked into a EoTech micro?

As far as the upper goes, if you like the m4 profile stick w/ it. BCM has great resale value and someone is always looking to get their hands on one. If you can just purchase another BCM upper and add the DD rail to it.
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Old 06-24-2011, 10:47   #5
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The Eotech 512 is a fine optic.

I prefer the Aimpoint, but the Eotech's have a good following for good reason.
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Old 06-24-2011, 11:23   #6
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Originally Posted by Poolman21 View Post
Please, correct me if i'm wrong, but you're saying an eotech isn't a "functional working optic"?

I think he is saying your priorities are backwards. #1 should be function and aesthetics should be somewhere around #1,000,000.

To answer your questions.
- If it were me, Aimpoint micro because of ruggedness, battery life/always on, & weight savings. Nothing wrong with an EOTech, but if given the option Aimpoint is my preference.

- I would remove your FSB and grind it down to fit under the rail. Saves you $60 plus the amount to have it installed. It is easy to do if you have a hacksaw, a dremel, and about 2 hours from start to finish. The end result will be a lightweight super sturdy low profile FSB.

Link to Surf's youtube video on how to do it:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ssdsurf#p/u/36/I5rPPyYdFUs

I did mine using same concept except with a hacksaw for the cutting and dremel for the shaping.


ETA- hard to get $400 for something used that retails for $409. Midlengths are great and would be my preference, but probably not worth the $ you will be laying out. Also, if you look around you can get 12" DD Lites for alot less than $390. I got one for $315 new and a lightly used authentic one for $290.
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Old 06-24-2011, 11:58   #7
Poolman21
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I think he is saying your priorities are backwards. #1 should be function and aesthetics should be somewhere around #1,000,000.
Function is absolutely my number one concern. I just didn't realize there was that large of a difference in function between the Aimpoint and the Eotech. I figured being an average shooter who just wants a dependable rifle, I would probably never be able to tell the difference between the function of the two. Guess I was wrong.

Thanks for the input on the shaving of the FSB, that's what I'm going to do.
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Old 06-24-2011, 14:58   #8
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Aimpoints work short of catastrophic accident the vast majority of the time. I've used an abused issued ones under all conditions and they kept running.

Eotechs do have a following and in some roles (miniguns especially) they work well.

But Eotechs are a case of "when it dies" not "in a really weird incident, my optic died" and this is a known problem going back four to five generations of Eotechs. When they work great, they're awesome. Some do.

Most don't. I know of one example where a unit had 80+ issued and 70+ had to be factory replaced or rebuilt within six months. Like those odds?

I had an Eotech for a short while. I didn't pay for it. I did pay to replace it. Because if I ever have to take my rifle in hand again when it's serious I don't want a battery draining accident waiting to happen on there, i want something i've spent years training with I know works.
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Old 06-24-2011, 15:56   #9
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Question #1: Guns are tools. Appearance shouldn’t enter into it. Both are quality optics and you should be fine with either one. If you want the one that will take the most abuse, go Aimpoint.

Question #2: I would consider keeping the upper and just buying another one. Just a thought.
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Old 06-24-2011, 17:15   #10
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Originally Posted by MrMurphy View Post
If you seriously are more worried about aI haveesthetics than having a functional working optic that may save your life some day.......


You're a range commando. Sell your toys and invest in Matchbox cars.
I have to agree.
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Old 06-24-2011, 21:09   #11
HAIL CAESAR
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Originally Posted by mjkeat View Post
Poolman, everyone is concerned w/ the way their rifle looks. I understand you're looking for a functional higher end optic but would also like it to be appealing. Look at all the pic threads throughout the AR forums.

I personally like the looks of the H1/T1 much more than huge 512. The H1/T1 is arguably the more rugged optic but have you looked into a EoTech micro?

As far as the upper goes, if you like the m4 profile stick w/ it. BCM has great resale value and someone is always looking to get their hands on one. If you can just purchase another BCM upper and add the DD rail to it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMurphy View Post
If you seriously are more worried about aesthetics than having a functional working optic that may save your life some day.......


You're a range commando. Sell your toys and invest in Matchbox cars.
MrMurphy, another one of your fine posts.
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Old 06-24-2011, 21:37   #12
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MrMurphy, another one of your fine posts.
Then explain why the Pic thread is the biggest thread on each and every AR forum.

How many times a day does someone comment on the fit and finish of a weapon? Every day.

Play the "all I care about is functionality" all you want but anyone that says appearance isn't a factor is in denial.

Argue the point all you want but you're lying to yourself.
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Old 06-24-2011, 21:44   #13
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Edit: Stay on topic
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Old 06-24-2011, 21:46   #14
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By the way I prefer the aimpoint micro as well.
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Old 06-24-2011, 22:17   #15
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I prefer the Aimpoint M4 over the H1/T1 micro for looks. It's what Sergeant Schugart used in Blackhawk Down on his M14.

I have an EOTech 517 on my M4gery and Trijicon Reflex on the other M4gery. No Aimpoint yet. It looks great.
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Old 06-24-2011, 22:31   #16
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Since you said it yourself...you are just an average guy who wants a decent AR and optics... you need to figure out what fits you better between 2 optics that are both combat proven and are worth every penny either way.

Most LEO's use EoTechs because they are 95% used in houses and that HUGE 65 MOA reticle is lightning fast getting hits on target. Remember only hits count. Sub MOA groups really arent a concearn in this role. (gun fighting inside of a house) Plus cops arent usually in a fight no more than a few hours typically so battery life isnt a huge concearn. They often have days, weeks even months at a time to check and double check and triple check their gear before serving a high threat warrant.

Extreme battery life such as the Aimpoint is desireable for troops in far away lands where there is no back up, the calvary isnt coming...and there may not be any support for days. 6 months of constant on capability really means alot there.

Add to that the higher frequency of longer distance engagements i.e street to street or roof top to roof top..the need for a finer more precise "dot" might be more practicle than a huge 65 MOA reticle. a 1 to 10 MOA adjustable reticle might be more to your liking and needs.

Its not an asthetics thing...its a "needs" thing. What do you need? Where does your average Joe needs fit in those 2 styles of fighting/shooting?


I personally LOVE the new EoTech EXPS2 but I think an Aimpoint micro fits my needs better? When I come accross a spare $1000 I will get me a fiber optic powered Trijicon lol.

Last edited by mixflip; 06-24-2011 at 22:38..
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Old 06-24-2011, 22:49   #17
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Plus cops arent usually in a fight no more than a few hours typically so battery life isnt a huge concearn.
Where do you live that cops have to fight for no more than a few hours?

Deadly force encounters for the average street cop is over in less than a minute. Sustained firefights are the rare rare rare exception for cops. Mostly it is going to be the cop responding to a deadly threat and firing 1 shot which ends it or if the perp fires off a few shots, the cops shoot back and perp dies, the end.
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Old 06-24-2011, 23:28   #18
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Yes exactly. Isnt that what I said? Cops arent involved in sustained firefights is basically what I meant? Yes it happens but its rare. Extremely rare. Yeah there's North Hollywood and the Circuit City stand off and other barricaded armed suspect situations where your gear may be "on" for hours but like you said...its rare.

My bad. I essentially meant cops dont need 6 months of constant on capability like soldiers do.

We had an active shooter at the federal court house last year (1 officer killed, shooter was killed also) and the entire Federal building had to be cleared. (10+ stories) It took several hours but as you said... its extrememly rare. But it does happen and that was all I meant by it.

Last edited by mixflip; 06-24-2011 at 23:36..
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Old 06-25-2011, 05:34   #19
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Cops need an optic that doesn't need to be turned on before a fight.

I have yet to find a cop who has an Eotech who really likes them. Most of them have them because they're issued. I 'have' during the time i was doing so professionally, sold a ton of Aimpoints to cops who had Eotechs die on rollouts (one cop had his die 3 times in 3 callouts where a rifle was involved. That one went into the trash). Not it worked then it died, it straight didn't even turn on.


I don't find the Eo ring faster indoors, but after 3 years of running around structures with an Aimpoint every single day, it's more of a training thing.

Sergeant Shughart did NOT use an Aimpoint M4 in Somalia.

Considering it was 1993, and the M4 wasn't invented until about 2.5-3 years ago.....

He had either an original Comp M or a Comp M2 (the first M68 and the first one that really had the survivable battery life, Comp M's were rugged but still didn't run too long), I'd have to check.
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Old 06-25-2011, 07:41   #20
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Then explain why the Pic thread is the biggest thread on each and every AR forum.

How many times a day does someone comment on the fit and finish of a weapon? Every day.

Play the "all I care about is functionality" all you want but anyone that says appearance isn't a factor is in denial.

Argue the point all you want but you're lying to yourself.
A. Some people post pics because they want to show off how "pretty" their gun is. Which is in line with "range commando".

B. Some people post pics of rifles to show how they set the rifle up for what they need to make the rifle reform for them.

A+B= ALOT.

When you were still in shortpants I was buying and requisitioning Colts that shook, rattled, and rolled straight out of the box. The finish looked like they were used. BUT....they worked. So no, I don't give a tinkers damn about how pretty the gun is. All I care about is..does it work.

I don't care about how it looks in pics, how pretty or how black the finish is, how the upper color matches the lower, is the gun the new must have brand name fad gun for college commandos and 400 lb Special Forces wannabee's.

Poolman21,

Do not get caught up on looks. Find out what you prefer and need. Then get that.

And neither SFC Randall D. Shugart nor Master Sergeant Gary Gordon used a M4 sight.
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