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Old 05-12-2011, 10:27   #1
HKLovingIT
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If .357 SIG was as cheap as...

Since the SD ammo is the same price basically for a 50 count box of Gold Dots compared to other calibers I guess what hangs some [many] up is the cost or local availability of plinking / range ammo, so...

If it was as cheap and on the shelf as 9mm [talking about non-reloaders] would you ditch your 9mms or your .40's?

In other words, if you could walk into any gun store and get a box of .357 SIG for $9-$12 bucks would ownership of a 9mm pistol be moot in your opinion? Is it the caliber itself that turns some off or just the cost and they would gladly have it over a 9mm if they could shoot it as cheap?

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Old 05-12-2011, 10:37   #2
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Probably not for me. Cost is just one factor, and frankly it's the least important, although if it affects how much you shoot then it becomes a more important one.

9 gets the job done and has advantages besides cost.

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Old 05-12-2011, 10:46   #3
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Probably not for me. Cost is just one factor, and frankly it's the least important, although if it affects how much you shoot then it becomes a more important one.

9 gets the job done and has advantages besides cost.
Like wut?
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Old 05-12-2011, 10:48   #4
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Like wut?
queue the capacity fiends! I'll stick with my 357 SIG over 9mm any day.
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Old 05-12-2011, 10:51   #5
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queue the capacity fiends! I'll stick with my 357 SIG over 9mm any day.
This!
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Old 05-12-2011, 10:53   #6
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Less muzzle blast and recoil. That's always a plus.
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Old 05-12-2011, 11:11   #7
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If it was as cheap and on the shelf as 9mm [talking about non-reloaders] would you ditch your 9mms or your .40's?
No, I wouldn't.
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Old 05-12-2011, 12:06   #8
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Love my G32, but I don't ever see me getting rid of my G26, no matter how cheap 357 SIG ammo gets
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Old 05-12-2011, 12:58   #9
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If cost was no issue I'd go with the 10mm. If the 10mm did not exist, I'd go with the .45 ACP. If neither of those existed, I'd have a hard time choosing between .40 S&W, .357 SIG and 9mm.
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Old 05-12-2011, 13:20   #10
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I never allow cost of ammo to make my decision about what caliber or gun to buy. If you reload, they all cost close to the same for practice & who cares what SD ammo cost? Choose what you like, buy ammo in bulk. Yes, 9mm is always cheaper to shoot in factory, but I can reload 357sig for the same cost as 9mm, 40 a penny more & 45 2c more/rd. If you want to shoot a lot for less, you need to be reloading.
Since I am stuck w/ 10+1, I only carry 9mm in small subcompact guns, where recoil is a bigger issue & I still get 10rds. In a G19/G23/G32 size gun, I still get 10rds & in the larger gun, recoil isn't as much of an issue.
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Old 05-12-2011, 14:41   #11
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With all things being equal, I'd still stick with my 9mm pistols over the .357Sig.
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Old 05-12-2011, 15:32   #12
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Choice of ammo, sometimes hard to find ammo even on line, and the world is a 9mm place, ammo should be available everywhere.

A quick look at Ammo to go

they have a total of 25 types of 357 in SD, FMJ and Frangible - (just counting individual products not the same product sold in bigger lots)

they have double that of 9mm SD alone! Not even looking at FMJ choices.

The 9mm will never be the speed demon the 357 Sig is but the 9mm as long as its the major caliber for the worlds militaries will always be plentiful with good selections.

However I might ditch my 40 cal's as I am not a real fan of the 40, but the 9 no way!

To many classic guns ONLY come in 9mm
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Old 05-12-2011, 16:14   #13
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Yup, I plan on getting a couple of .357s even with the increased cost for ammo.
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Old 05-12-2011, 17:09   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HKLovingIT View Post
If it was as cheap and on the shelf as 9mm [talking about non-reloaders] would you ditch your 9mms or your .40's?

In other words, if you could walk into any gun store and get a box of .357 SIG for $9-$12 bucks would ownership of a 9mm pistol be moot in your opinion? Is it the caliber itself that turns some off or just the cost and they would gladly have it over a 9mm if they could shoot it as cheap?
Some of the things I always consider is shooting indoors (such as in a home defense situation with the family present). Lack of hearing protection is a consideration, though when you and/or the family's life is at stake it isnt' a major consideration. Rather, it is something to at least think about ahead of time when you're making a sound defense plan in your home (or vehicle). Another consideration is recoil and muzzle blast. It is a simple fact that all things being equal a .357Sig is going to have more recoil and muzzle blast than a 9mm. For some, the recoil isn't an issue. For others it is a major issue. Muzzle blast isn't as bad as in years past, but still something to consider for the probable dim/no light shooting.

This isn't a .357Sig bash by the way. I've owned a G32. For me personally I feel better with a G19. I'm not recoil shy (first off-duty was a .357 magnum), but I know that I can get off more accurate shots under duress with a 9mm than I can with a .357Sig (and I can do very well with the .357Sig).

Just some thoughts.
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Old 05-12-2011, 17:21   #15
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Less muzzle blast and recoil. That's always a plus.

There may be a BB gun in your future.
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Old 05-12-2011, 18:27   #16
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I'd own one.
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Old 05-13-2011, 05:50   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HKLovingIT View Post
Since the SD ammo is the same price basically for a 50 count box of Gold Dots compared to other calibers I guess what hangs some [many] up is the cost or local availability of plinking / range ammo, so...

If it was as cheap and on the shelf as 9mm [talking about non-reloaders] would you ditch your 9mms or your .40's?

In other words, if you could walk into any gun store and get a box of .357 SIG for $9-$12 bucks would ownership of a 9mm pistol be moot in your opinion? Is it the caliber itself that turns some off or just the cost and they would gladly have it over a 9mm if they could shoot it as cheap?
Why would you not count the opinion of reloaders? In truth, reloading brings your question closer to reality than is likely to happen with factory fodder.

The only difference in cost between the .357 sig and a 9mm is the small increase in the amount of powder that goes into the sig cartridge.

If all I was looking at was the cost of factory ammo, I'd probably shoot a 9mm. As it is, I carry and shoot a .40 S&W for SD purposes. I can handload any of the mentioned cartridges for far less than factory, and all would be fairly close in cost.

I carry and shoot the .40 S&W because I like the cartridge's performance for a variety of needs.

I shoot several cartridges that are generally hard to find, and sometimes limited in the available ammo that's produced for them. The .32 H&R mag is one; a great cartridge, but .38 special would be a smarter choice for the non-reloader. Another is the .17 Remington. Another great cartridge, but a .223 would be far cheaper to shoot for a non-reloader. In each case, I choose the cartridge for it's small difference(s) in performance to better suit my needs. Reloading simply makes them easier to afford, and levels the playing field when making a choice.

The only reason I don't shoot the .357 Sig, rather than the .40 S&W, is that the .40 S&W suits my preferences better. It has nothing to do with cost.

Daryl
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Old 05-13-2011, 05:53   #18
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Originally Posted by HKLovingIT View Post
Since the SD ammo is the same price basically for a 50 count box of Gold Dots compared to other calibers I guess what hangs some [many] up is the cost or local availability of plinking / range ammo, so...

If it was as cheap and on the shelf as 9mm [talking about non-reloaders] would you ditch your 9mms or your .40's?

In other words, if you could walk into any gun store and get a box of .357 SIG for $9-$12 bucks would ownership of a 9mm pistol be moot in your opinion? Is it the caliber itself that turns some off or just the cost and they would gladly have it over a 9mm if they could shoot it as cheap?
Nope but I would definitely pick up a lovely Sig 357 and enjoy shooting it (I might get rid of my .40s actually and go all 9 or 357)... let me know if you can make that happen and I'm there!!!
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Old 05-13-2011, 09:01   #19
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Why would you not count the opinion of reloaders? In truth, reloading brings your question closer to reality than is likely to happen with factory fodder.

Didn't mean to imply reloaders aren't welcome. I meant it more along the lines that a lot of people don't reload or don't reload yet, and might make a decision about what caliber they used based on the shelf price at Wal-Mart or the local gun store.

We hear a lot in threads "Get the 9mm, it's cheaper to shoot and you can find the ammo easier..." So I was just wondering if for some [not all] people, if that was a primary consideration, and if .357 SIG ammo was as cheap and easy to find on the shelf as 9mm, would they rather have the .357 SIG.

Maybe, though a better question would be, if .357 SIG was as cheap and available as .40 would you ditch the .40? I suppose then we'd be talking about for instance a G23 versus a G32, so same capacity, size, etc.

Anyway, not so much a "caliber war" question as much as just interested in taking a pulse on how much cost of shooting / local availability, drives caliber choices for those who don't reload and buy off the shelf ammo.

As to my answer, I would keep my 9mm's but I'm thinking more these days that I would prefer to have .357 SIG over my .40's, but I don't reload so I stay with the .40 at this time.

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Old 05-13-2011, 09:23   #20
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If 357 SIG FMJ were $.24/round like 9mm, I'd be buying a lot more of it. I've gotten it for as low as $.32/round, but it's more common for me to find it for $.40-$.45/round.
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Old 05-13-2011, 09:44   #21
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357sig is a unique round. If its ammo were cheaper, & the OP would've posted this thread a year or so ago, I probably would have said that I'd EDC my G32. Either way, I'd still have a need for 9mm as I can shoot a whole lot more 9mm per shooting session w/out fatigue than I could w/357sig. Since I've add Pearce 26XLs to my G27, I can't think of a reason why I'd CCW a compact framed Glock, & the velocity loss + muzzle blast of a G33 would keep me away from EDC of it.
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Old 05-13-2011, 13:07   #22
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They definitely have round count going for them. The one I had as a kid held 200 rounds! Penetration? Well I think the jury is still out on that one.
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Old 05-13-2011, 16:44   #23
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I'm more interested in bullet performance than a particular caliber, I have no experience with the 125gr HST, but the shallow cavity HP .355cal 125gr Gold Dot in .357SIG is a great self defense carry. As far as I know, the vast majority of .357SIG ammo uses bullets designed for 9mm velocities. Increasing 9mm designed bullet velocities to .357SIG velocities doesn't necessarily make for better bullet performance in soft tissue.

The 9mm offers a very wide selection of ammunition for personal defense and I've been impressed with this caliber's performance; for me, I don't see the advantage that warrants a .357SIG (which is a .355cal) purchase.

For fun, handloaded 9mm 125gr Gold Dot loaded to 1289fps (0.516"exp), slower MV than the .357SIG, same calculated soft tissue penetration depth as 125gr GD at 1436fps (.532"exp);

Caliber Corner

However, I do see a performance advantage with the .38Super, which is a .356cal, loaded with .357cal, 125gr XTPs. Using a single perforated neutral powder, the Super with the 125gr achieves faster velocities than the SIG and remains under 33,350psi, compared to the SIG's 40-44,000 psi when loaded with degressive powders. What this boils down to is, I can match Hornady's .357mag 125gr XTP ammuntion MVs with the same bullet, but carry a M1911 platform that gives faster split times than a G17.

Interestingly enough, .357cal 125gr XTPs were $.50 less than the 9mm/124gr XTPs per 100ct last time I bought.

9mm 124 gr. XTP "TAP-CQ" JHP (90245) v. four layers of denim, ~1150fps

Caliber Corner

.355cal 124gr XTP at 1436fps, well w/i .357SIG load data;

Caliber Corner

.38Super .357cal 125gr XTP at 1491fps after penetrating a 14ply semi-truck tire casing;

Caliber Corner

Dried out, desert sun bleached range cow leg bones are very tough, as are semi truck tires.

Same MV (1491fps) and bullet was captured in a water bag test;

Caliber Corner

The 125gr Gold Dot can be pushed in 9mm, but a number of 9mm bullets cannot be pushed to the potential MVs of the .357SIG.

For me, I don't see the advantages of a G31 over a G17 that does get carry time, YMMV.

Bob
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Old 05-13-2011, 16:54   #24
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Increasing 9mm designed bullet velocities to .357SIG velocities doesn't necessarily make for better bullet performance in soft tissue.
Agreed. In fact it can actually make it a worse round. As a side note, I think Speer used the 124 9mm bullet in their original .357sig offering but then went back and redesigned it for the increased velocity. Now it is a 125grn offering that handles the extra velocity better. Don't hold me to that, but I'm pretty sure I remember that correctly.

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For me, I don't see the advantages of a G31 over a G17 that does get carry time
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Old 05-13-2011, 18:21   #25
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I can't load .357sig into my Mauser Luger, Star Bm, SW 3913 or BHP clone....so there's that.
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