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Old 05-25-2011, 20:35   #61
BBJones
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I'm going to go out on a limb here and BET it went down because of legal reasons.
I bet not. Only way he would be liable is if anything he put in it was untrue and caused damage to a business.
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Old 05-25-2011, 21:13   #62
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I'm going to go out on a limb here and BET it went down because of legal reasons.
What in the world are you talking about?
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Old 05-25-2011, 21:47   #63
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No one is asking you to drink piston kool aid just admit to the facts I have shot both quite a bit and yes the piston is extremely cleaner than di with or without a supressor and a lot of these brands of di that are being named are the same if not more money than what a piston costs so I think I will continue to drink my PWS piston Kool aid 2,000 rounds of 5.56 and still going strong another 500 and maybe I'll clean it. And where does accuracy play into it I think you sir need to do a little more research before you generalize all pistons into the same category because they aren't
One of my best friends has a LWRC. Not a bad gun but I don't see it as being worth the extra money. In fact after I let him shoot my Noveske at the last three gun match he wants one now.
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Old 05-26-2011, 01:14   #64
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Try again. Read the document in its place now. Rob may not put the chart back up at all.
If rob s. doesn't put the chart back up, all hell will break loose.

I'll have people challenging me on why their Hesse is the equal of my KAC, and there won't be a damn thing I'll be able to offer in the form of absolute proof as a rebuttal.

Damnit!

Last edited by Durden; 05-26-2011 at 01:15..
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Old 05-26-2011, 01:36   #65
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Excellent, another meaningless pissing match thread.
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:47   #66
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1911 why did I say that about my Colt? Well the Rock River just plain shoots very well, its much more accurate than my colt, the fit of the Colt is no where what the RR is, I do not shoot the Colt as well and my friends dont either, both run 100% with any ammo, the feel of the RR is better,tighter,no rattle,upper and lowers mate much better than the Colt. Just my feelings, my RR is carried daily 7 days a week, just today shot 1 coyote and 2 other predators, to me its 100% reliable. Money was not much of an object when I got it and would do the same again, the RR just shoots, I clean it 1 time a week, never any kind of problem. Also the Colt trigger is horrible compared to the RR. This is my opinion only for my use, also I had a FN M4 for 4 yrs before retirement and my RR will out shoot it ......

Rock River uses the Wlyde chambers, which (AFAIK) are more accurate withr most civilian shooter selection of ammo. A RR with a wlyde chamber and stainless steel barrel is designed to be more accurate than a standard Colt. I remember when 4-6" groups at 100 yards was acceptable in the Army with the old Colts we had. The military has different priories. For example, the mess hall did not look like Luby's either, but could move to the field and feed hundreds.
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:49   #67
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Stag is a good rifle for the average civilian shooter. They are my favorite brand.
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:55   #68
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The barrel/chamber on my RR is marked 5.56, also stated on the manuel and case it came in.
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Old 05-26-2011, 06:57   #69
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Rock River uses the Wlyde chambers, which (AFAIK) are more accurate withr most civilian shooter selection of ammo. A RR with a wlyde chamber and stainless steel barrel is designed to be more accurate than a standard Colt. I remember when 4-6" groups at 100 yards was acceptable in the Army with the old Colts we had. The military has different priories. For example, the mess hall did not look like Luby's either, but could move to the field and feed hundreds.
I had a 20" RRA with a Wylde chamber which is advertised by RRA as being capable of handling both .223 and 5.56. Unfortunately for me that was not the case. The gun would constantly blow primers with all sorts of 5.56 ammo. I had to ream the chamber in order for it to cycle 5.56 reliably.

Last edited by Captains1911; 05-26-2011 at 06:57..
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:02   #70
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If rob s. doesn't put the chart back up, all hell will break loose.

I'll have people challenging me on why their Hesse is the equal of my KAC, and there won't be a damn thing I'll be able to offer in the form of absolute proof as a rebuttal.

Damnit!

I donít know why people get so bent out of shape over the chart. Nothing in there is classified or particularly hard to get. Inspect the guns you have access to for the obvious stuff and call or email the companies and ask if they high pressure test or what barrel steel they use. Many companies are starting to list that stuff on their own. Every time Iíve contacted a gun manufacturer, Iíve always gotten the info I needed. Itís not rocket science.
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:15   #71
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I donít know why people get so bent out of shape over the chart. Nothing in there is classified or particularly hard to get. Inspect the guns you have access to for the obvious stuff and call or email the companies and ask if they high pressure test or what barrel steel they use. Many companies are starting to list that stuff on their own. Every time Iíve contacted a gun manufacturer, Iíve always gotten the info I needed. Itís not rocket science.
Exactly. That was my point when I said "people don't know how to interpret the chart". Your average AR buyer has no idea what the information contained in the chart means; no idea what TDP, MPI/HPT means. All they see is a left side and a right side and names going across the top. The informative article that Rob has compiled explaining all these things is actually better in my humble opinion as it allows buyers to learn what the terminology and technology mean and as you said, contact companies and make their own informed decisions.

If someone looks at the left side of the chart and picks a random name and goes and buys a rifle, they've completely missed the point.
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:35   #72
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Old 05-26-2011, 08:03   #73
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You don't have to clean an Ar nearly as often as you seem to think. The only time cleaner and cooler is a major plus is for use with suppressors. For most shooters they are better off with a DI gun that costs less, weighs less, has less parts to break and is generally more durable and more accurate. Sorry but not drinking the piston Kool aid.

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That's the great thing about opinions, everyone has them. You can like your DI ARs, but the market is moving in a different direction. From piston ARs like the H&K416s, LWRC, STAG, S&W, to SCARs, to ACRs, to XCRs, and so on and so on, the rifle world is changing. Cool and clean is better, no matter what a rifle's use, and weight means nothing to the average civilian shooter.

Of course the SEALs and Rangers and AFCCs are stupid in their rifle choices. Those poor, ignorant souls. They're probably having to rebuild their rifles every few weeks or so, with parts always breaking and stuff.
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Last edited by M&P15T; 05-26-2011 at 08:07..
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Old 05-26-2011, 09:35   #74
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
That's the great thing about opinions, everyone has them. You can like your DI ARs, but the market is moving in a different direction. From piston ARs like the H&K416s, LWRC, STAG, S&W, to SCARs, to ACRs, to XCRs, and so on and so on, the rifle world is changing. Cool and clean is better, no matter what a rifle's use, and weight means nothing to the average civilian shooter.

Of course the SEALs and Rangers and AFCCs are stupid in their rifle choices. Those poor, ignorant souls. They're probably having to rebuild their rifles every few weeks or so, with parts always breaking and stuff.
LMAO,
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Old 05-26-2011, 14:14   #75
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Old 05-26-2011, 14:25   #76
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
That's the great thing about opinions, everyone has them. You can like your DI ARs, but the market is moving in a different direction. From piston ARs like the H&K416s, LWRC, STAG, S&W, to SCARs, to ACRs, to XCRs, and so on and so on, the rifle world is changing. Cool and clean is better, no matter what a rifle's use, and weight means nothing to the average civilian shooter.

Of course the SEALs and Rangers and AFCCs are stupid in their rifle choices. Those poor, ignorant souls. They're probably having to rebuild their rifles every few weeks or so, with parts always breaking and stuff.
Yea all the Rangers SEALS are using piston AR's . You're full of it. (sounds like someone is playing too much Counter Strike on line and not enough time shooting real guns) The HK416 was tested by not adopted by the SF community. Also a weapons weight may mean nothing to you but you don't speak for the average anything. You have been sold on piston Koolaid. That is great enjoy your guns. If you have not heard about piston guns breaking down like POF guns and what not your head is in the sand. Then there is the carrier tilt issue. There are a lot of bugs to work out of the piston system as it applies to AR's before they are to be trusted, hence part of the reason why the military dropped the HK416 for general issue.
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Old 05-26-2011, 15:40   #77
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and weight means nothing to the average civilian shooter.
Maybe not to somebody that shoots their guns off a bench. If you train with your rifle, use it at work, or just have it slung for more than a couple hours, youíll find weight does matter.
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Old 05-26-2011, 17:21   #78
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ive built 5 from sherluk parts and never had any problem
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Old 05-26-2011, 19:11   #79
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Yea all the Rangers SEALS are using piston AR's . You're full of it. (sounds like someone is playing too much Counter Strike on line and not enough time shooting real guns) The HK416 was tested by not adopted by the SF community. Also a weapons weight may mean nothing to you but you don't speak for the average anything. You have been sold on piston Koolaid. That is great enjoy your guns. If you have not heard about piston guns breaking down like POF guns and what not your head is in the sand. Then there is the carrier tilt issue. There are a lot of bugs to work out of the piston system as it applies to AR's before they are to be trusted, hence part of the reason why the military dropped the HK416 for general issue.
Pat
Actually Rangers, Green Berets and SEALS are using a variety of piton rifles. I have friends in all three Spec War groups And I certainly havent said anything about POF because I dont like their products. PWS eliminated piston tilt and weighs about the same as DI also does all the things every other piston claims to do.
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Old 05-26-2011, 19:31   #80
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Actually Rangers, Green Berets and SEALS are using a variety of piton rifles. I have friends in all three Spec War groups And I certainly havent said anything about POF because I dont like their products. PWS eliminated piston tilt and weighs about the same as DI also does all the things every other piston claims to do.
I am talking about piston AR's being general issue not about T&E guns.
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