GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-27-2011, 22:06   #61
Zombie Steve
Decap Pin Killa
 
Zombie Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Old Colorado City
Posts: 19,935
Strange things happen when I can't sleep.
Zombie Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2011, 18:02   #62
glock20c10mm
Senior Member
 
glock20c10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Out West
Posts: 5,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Steve View Post
Taper Crimping (Auto loading handguns): The important concept to walk away with here.....Again, you just want to remove the flare you put in the case. So how far do you go? A decent rule of thumb is the thickness of the brass times two, plus the diameter of your bullet.....
Brass Thickness x 2 + Bullet Diameter = ???What???

I don't get it. In reference to what, aside from telling me how much to taper crimp? If anyone could spell this out in oversimplified terms it would be much appreciated.

I'm sure the answer is much simpler to understand than I could ever imagine, but...

Reloading
__________________
Free Men Don't Need To Ask Permission To Bear Arms

The Glock 29 is the most versatile handgun yet produced.
glock20c10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2011, 18:28   #63
Zombie Steve
Decap Pin Killa
 
Zombie Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Old Colorado City
Posts: 19,935
The thickness of one side of your brass wall (for example, .12") times two (one for each side) plus the diameter of your bullet. If you're shooting a .451" bullet, this would be taper crimping to roughly .69" measuring the outside of the case at the mouth.

Is that what you're asking?
Zombie Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2011, 18:50   #64
glock20c10mm
Senior Member
 
glock20c10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Out West
Posts: 5,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Steve View Post
The thickness of one side of your brass wall (for example, .12") times two (one for each side) plus the diameter of your bullet. If you're shooting a .451" bullet, this would be taper crimping to roughly .69" measuring the outside of the case at the mouth.

Is that what you're asking?
I get that, but not what it's supposed to tell me to equal or compared to what.

Wait, I think I just figured out what I couldn't comprehend. So whatever the formula equals is what the case mouth, where it was flared before being crimped, should now equal after being crimped?
__________________
Free Men Don't Need To Ask Permission To Bear Arms

The Glock 29 is the most versatile handgun yet produced.
glock20c10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2011, 19:48   #65
Colorado4Wheel
Senior Member
 
Colorado4Wheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 14,439
Side 1 + Bullet + Side 2 = Final Crimp (outside diameter)
.120 + .451 + .120 = .691

If your bullet was .450 it would be .690"
If your case is .121 and the bullet .451 then your crimp is .693"

Or you could just hold it up to the light and look for a slight outward flare. Keep removing the flare by lowering the die a little at at time till the flare is gone. I never measure crimp. And everyone knows I like to measure stuff.
__________________
Steve
Colorado4Wheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2011, 20:44   #66
glock20c10mm
Senior Member
 
glock20c10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Out West
Posts: 5,244
Crazy how the obvious can be so complicated. Thanks for your help!
__________________
Free Men Don't Need To Ask Permission To Bear Arms

The Glock 29 is the most versatile handgun yet produced.
glock20c10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 07:35   #67
Armchair
Member
 
Armchair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 85
case trimming scam?

"Trimming, Chamfering and Deburring: Itís doubtful youíll ever do it on brass for auto loading handguns."

Wait, so you're telling me that Lee sells pistol case trimming equipment just as a way to make money off of people who, like me, don't know better?

I want to get set up to reload, but do you guys seriously never trim cases? Do you just check them with a caliper every once in a while? I'd love to skip the trimming and save money on equipment, but I've got to say (not being experienced) that I'm suspicious.

Any further information/experience would be much appreciated. Thanks.
Armchair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 08:31   #68
Rinspeed
JAFO
 
Rinspeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 10,490


Quote:
Originally Posted by Armchair View Post
I want to get set up to reload, but do you guys seriously never trim cases?



I've reloaded for 15 years and have never trimmed pistol brass ever.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------


You run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking, racing around to come up behind you again, the sun is the same in a relative way but youíre older, shorter of breath and one day closer to deathÖ
Rinspeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 08:34   #69
Colorado4Wheel
Senior Member
 
Colorado4Wheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 14,439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armchair View Post
"Trimming, Chamfering and Deburring: Itís doubtful youíll ever do it on brass for auto loading handguns."

Wait, so you're telling me that Lee sells pistol case trimming equipment just as a way to make money off of people who, like me, don't know better?

I want to get set up to reload, but do you guys seriously never trim cases? Do you just check them with a caliper every once in a while? I'd love to skip the trimming and save money on equipment, but I've got to say (not being experienced) that I'm suspicious.

Any further information/experience would be much appreciated. Thanks.
Trimming is a total waste of time in pistol. Ignore it.
__________________
Steve
Colorado4Wheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 08:37   #70
unclebob
Senior Member
 
unclebob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Mary Esther FL
Posts: 7,053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armchair View Post
"Trimming, Chamfering and Deburring: It’s doubtful you’ll ever do it on brass for auto loading handguns."

Wait, so you're telling me that Lee sells pistol case trimming equipment just as a way to make money off of people who, like me, don't know better? YES

I want to get set up to reload, but do you guys seriously never trim cases? Do you just check them with a caliper every once in a while? I'd love to skip the trimming and save money on equipment, but I've got to say (not being experienced) that I'm suspicious.

Any further information/experience would be much appreciated. Thanks.
You only need to trim rifle cases. Yes, there are people that like to trim Pistol brass but it is not needed. I don’t even check the pistol brass length with anything. There just is no reason in my opinion to do so.
__________________
Team Carver Custom
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Benefactor Life Member
GSSF Life Member
___________________________________________

Last edited by unclebob; 07-13-2011 at 08:38..
unclebob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 09:39   #71
Zombie Steve
Decap Pin Killa
 
Zombie Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Old Colorado City
Posts: 19,935
I only will trim rimmed cartridges like .44 mag so that when I roll crimp them into a cannelure they are more consistent. When the brass is new, they're usually within a few thousandths of each other, so I don't usually have to do this until they've been fired a few times. I'll trim them once, and usually by the time they're out of whack again, they're usually near the end of their useful life anyway (depending on the load). I almost never will trim them a second time.




I never trim .45 auto or 9mm (the only two semi-auto cartridges I load). I have screwed around with it just to see. I got slightly tighter numbers over a chronograph, but nothing that I noticed in terms of accuracy. It really just doesn't matter.
Zombie Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 09:43   #72
Zombie Steve
Decap Pin Killa
 
Zombie Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Old Colorado City
Posts: 19,935
Also - you can check them with a caliper after resizing if you'd like, or you can do the plunk test on the back end of the process (see my section on taper crimp) to make sure they aren't too long. Extremely doubtful they ever will be, but it never hurts to check.

Plunk test (not my photo, just found it online):

Reloading

Last edited by Zombie Steve; 07-13-2011 at 09:47..
Zombie Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 13:27   #73
Armchair
Member
 
Armchair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 85
OK, then. Well, that's reassuring. The plunk test definitely sounds like a good idea. (I'm only going to be reloading 9mm and .45 ACP.)

I appreciate the responses!

One other thing, however. Roughly how many reloadings do you guys estimate that you get out of decent brass, on average? Have you developed a rule of thumb about how many times you'll reload cases, even if you haven't yet seen any cracks, etc?

Thanks.
Armchair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 13:31   #74
Zombie Steve
Decap Pin Killa
 
Zombie Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Old Colorado City
Posts: 19,935
Well, Jack will load them even after they've split. Most not affected by dementia will tell you with 9 and 45 you're more likely to lose them before they go bad. Just keep loading them until they split. Of course, it depends on the load. Most likely the primer pocket will get too loose before anything else happens.

Magnum rounds and rifle are a different story IMHO.
Zombie Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 13:54   #75
Armchair
Member
 
Armchair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 85
Gotcha. Hadn't thought about the primer pocket issue.

Do you find that cases can generally be reloaded ten times before you have more than just the odd split here and there? I'm trying to get a sense of how much brass I'll need to keep on hand, how quickly I'll likely have to replace it, and how much I'll need to spend just on brass.

I realize the answer will depend on a good number of factors, but thought there might be a ballpark number for these calibers that could be used for calculation purposes? Please excuse if this is a stupid newbie question.
Armchair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 13:58   #76
Zombie Steve
Decap Pin Killa
 
Zombie Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Old Colorado City
Posts: 19,935
Use ten as a nice round number.

You'll likely wind up with a 5 gallon bucket of brass after the crb gene kicks in. You'll be scrounging it everywhere until you have more than you can possibly use in a lifetime.

I've never bought .45 auto brass. I seem to find some every time I go out.
Zombie Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 14:23   #77
unclebob
Senior Member
 
unclebob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Mary Esther FL
Posts: 7,053
Other than rifle I do not buy brass. I use range pickup. I like to use Winchester brass. Because it is easier to tell if has been reloaded or not. I have a 5 gallon bucket full for the bass Iím using at that time. When I come back from the range I put the brass in the tumbler with walnut. That then goes in the bucket in the garage. When the bucket gets low in the reloading room. I then clean the brass in the garage with corn cob media with NU-finish car polish and mineral spirits. That then goes back into the reloading room bucket. I reload this ammo 6 times. Then I put that brass in the match bucket since they are non-brass recovery matches. In the meantime Iím always looking for more brass. Even though I have about 5 or 6, 5 gallon buckets full of 9mm once fired brass that I probably will never use.
The biggest thing with brass on how long it will last. Is how hot do you load them. And how hard is it to recover the brass you shot, at the range you shoot at. Some people have grass or rocks that make it hard to recover there brass.
__________________
Team Carver Custom
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Benefactor Life Member
GSSF Life Member
___________________________________________
unclebob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 15:34   #78
Armchair
Member
 
Armchair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 85
Yes, not to be a pest, but you guys touch on another question that's been bugging me. I shoot at an outdoor range, and I'm trying to figure out how I can keep from spending five times longer picking up my brass than I spend shooting.

Is there a really expensive and complicated piece of equipment I can buy that will speed up brass collection?

I move around a lot when I shoot (defensive shooting practice), and seems like I stomp on half of the brass as it's ejected. I hate to get too obssesive about picking up up brass as I shoot, however. Probably everyone's heard of the story about the cop who was so conditioned to picking up brass at the range that he did so automatically during an actual confrontation, thus needlessly exposing himself to fire.

Any advice on spotting and collecting spent brass when outdoors? (Maybe you should start selling your 5-gallon bucket-fulls!)
Armchair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 15:42   #79
unclebob
Senior Member
 
unclebob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Mary Esther FL
Posts: 7,053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armchair View Post
Yes, not to be a pest, but you guys touch on another question that's been bugging me. I shoot at an outdoor range, and I'm trying to figure out how I can keep from spending five times longer picking up my brass than I spend shooting.

Is there a really expensive and complicated piece of equipment I can buy that will speed up brass collection?

I move around a lot when I shoot (defensive shooting practice), and seems like I stomp on half of the brass as it's ejected. I hate to get too obssesive about picking up up brass as I shoot, however. Probably everyone's heard of the story about the cop who was so conditioned to picking up brass at the range that he did so automatically during an actual confrontation, thus needlessly exposing himself to fire.

Any advice on spotting and collecting spent brass when outdoors? (Maybe you should start selling your 5-gallon bucket-fulls!)
http://www.harborfreight.com/10-ft-x...arp-96936.html

http://www.harborfreight.com/deluxe-...tool-2432.html

That aint going to happen. At least not anytime soon.
__________________
Team Carver Custom
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Benefactor Life Member
GSSF Life Member
___________________________________________
unclebob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 15:49   #80
Armchair
Member
 
Armchair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 85
Great ideas. Thanks!
Armchair is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:54.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 783
203 Members
580 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31