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Old 09-14-2011, 23:25   #1
hackinpeat
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Please help: Friend's business shut down by dshs over his CCP in WA state.

Bear with me folks, this is a long story. I would summarize it, but I think the whole story should be read.

What I am hoping for here is actual help. Well wishes are nice too! Random comments from the peanut gallery...well, they are to be expected, but do us no good.

He is contacting the NRA and several other organizations for legal help, but I thought a post here might generate some more suggestions, ideas, and perhaps resources.

Please help if you can, this is a terrible injustice!

My story of a summer month.


by Spencer Lowell on Wednesday, September 14, 2011 at 9:08pm

My name is Spencer Lowell. Iím 28 years old. Iíve grew up in and lived in Spokane for most of my life. After spending 6 years, working and going to University in Bellingham, WA, I returned to Spokane with my Bachelorís degree in Business Administration. In my spare time I love snow skiing in the winter, going to live music concerts, and spending time at the family lake cabin in Christina Lake, BC. Iím also an amateur artist, pioneering the art of Solar Pyrography, where I burn images into wood with magnifying glasses in the sun. Youíll sometimes see me at parks demonstrating my artwork for the public, and usually a gaggle of excited kids clustered around the extra lenses and wood boards I bring for them so they can try it out. Iíve been back in Eastern Washington for the past three and half years to start up an Adult Family Home (AFH) in Spokane Valley with my father. We named our AFH ďValley Pines Retirement HomeĒ and have been in business since July of 2008. For those three years, I have served as both a night time caregiver for my elderly residents 3-4 nights a week, and also serve as the Business Operations Manager where I administer to all the business aspects of running a small business. With the economic downturn, it hasnít been easy at times, but we still make do. We care for 6 elderly residents, and employ 4 people from our local community.

Itís unbelievable to me how I find myself in the situation that I am in. I feel that if I can just shine light on how everything happened in one complete story, that no reasonable person with common sense could think that we are bad people deserving of what has been done to us. The many events that have occurred over the past month have finally resulted in our AFH license being revoked by the Department of Social and Health Services (DSHS). At this time I am disbarred from setting foot on the premises. All of employees will be let go, and our six elderly residents will be evicted in less than 30 days. It's a long, sordid, and dastardly tale. Chock full of petty friendship squabbles, revenge, lies, manufactured evidence, an alleged marijuana grow operation, crooked cops, a vindictive child protective service agent, powerful government bureaucrats run amok, people's jobs lost, elderly people facing eviction from their home, and at the center of it all, is a law abiding man and his gun.

On August 17th, I was out doing some shopping at the hardware store to pick up some home improvement supplies for our retirement home, as we recently completed a renovation to our caregiverís bedroom at our AFH. I received a call from my very frantic mother, Michelle Lowell, who operates a child day care, and has been a child care provider for over 25 years. She operates her child care center out of her home at 1623 S. Pines Rd. in Spokane, WA. Her business name is All Saints Child Care. My mother was very distraught, as her day care was in the process of being raided by Child Protective Service agent Ron Stewart, two plain clothes sheriffís deputies (Tammy Spitzer, and a male deputy as well, though we do not recollect his name), my motherís DSHS licensor Karen Cole, and a supervisory uniformed sheriff with the last name Martin. We are unable to obtain the male deputiesí name, or Sheriff Martinís full name, as this information is contained within Police Report # 11-255704, and we have been informed that to get a copy of this report from the Spokane Public Safety Building will take 60-90 days because there are currently over 1,600 people in line to obtain copies of police reports. Naturally, our business will be long closed down in this time span.

My motherís child day care was being raided because an individual by the name of Stephanie Brough Williams phoned in a complaint to DSHS that my mother had been operating a marijuana growing operation at her child day care. If you were to know my mother as I do, you would probably think of this accusation as one of the most ridiculous notions youíve ever heard too. Stephanie had even gone to the trouble to procure pictures that allegedly had been taken at my motherís house of marijuana plants. I was able to briefly see some of these falsified pictures (which were large color computer printouts on plain paper) while the licensors and Sheriff were attempting to figure out where the pictures might have been taken on the property. All of the pictures I noticed were closely cropped, and showed no surroundings around the marijuana plants, or any features of my momís property. I suspect they were probably just stock photos obtained by Google image searching ďmarijuana plantĒ. They quickly noticed I was looking over their shoulders at the pictures and ordered me to stop eavesdropping on what they were doing. As we later discovered, Stephanie apparently was upset at my motherís good friend Debbie Moheit for reasons I donít know. Apparently knowing my mother was good friends with Debbie, Stephanie called in the false complaint to DSHS in order to exact revenge upon Debbie, by hurting my motherís business.

On the phone, my mother requested I come over to her house right away, as she was very scared at the time, and wanted my help to witness the activities of the CPS agent, licensors, and deputies who wanted my mother to consent to a search of her property because the deputies did not have a warrant. In our similar industries of child care and elder care, we have a very low trust for DSHS licensors, as they will frequently try to give citations or close your business for reasons that are not supported by Washington State law, but instead rely on their own opinions and feelings.

Upon arriving at All Saints Child Care, I noticed the two plain clothes deputies outside the front door. I briefly asked them if they had a warrant. After they confirmed they did not have a warrant I went inside and met my mother downstairs in the childrenís main play area who was with Ron Stewart (CPS agent) at the time. Maintaining a calm, non-hostile demeanor, I advised my mother not to consent to a police search, but to instead allow the CPS agent and DSHS licensors to conduct their search, which they are legally allowed to do any time they wish at your place of business. I stayed downstairs and quietly observed Ron Stewart and his interactions with the children. It was distressing to me to hear the children innocently ask Ron, ďIs Shelly (my mother) going to go to jail?Ē while the CPS agent was questioning the childrent. After 15-20 minutes with the children, Ron went back upstairs to speak with the DSHS licensors (including Karen Cole), who had just arrived.

I quietly followed Ron outside, where I was met by the two plain clothes deputies. While separated from me, my mother had been pressured, and consented for her home to be searched by law enforcement, which was immediately commenced. My intention was to follow whatever licensors my mother requested of me, so that I could be a witness to their activities, while my mother accompanied the uniformed Sheriff Martin in the search.

However, once outside, I was confronted by the plain clothes deputies Tammy Spitzer and the accompanying male deputy. Tammy immediately began to interrogate me, in what I perceived as a hostile manner. I felt like Tammy had an agenda, and did not have my best interests at heart, so I provided my first and last name, but told her I was uncomfortable answering any other questions under the circumstances. She began to ask where I lived, where I worked, what my phone number and middle name was. I pointed out that I did not have to answer her questions because of the 5th amendment, and pointed out that she did not have a warrant to detain me at my motherís house.

I remained very cordial throughout the confrontation, but Tammy became increasingly hostile toward me. She threatened that if I did not give her my driverís license, she would arrest me for obstructing an official investigation and take me to jail. At this point, because they were in plain clothes, I asked for their law enforcement identification. Tammy held up her deputyís license, which was EXPIRED. She hastily acknowledged that it was indeed expired, but tried to explain that she just hadnít gotten it renewed, and that she was an ďundercover copĒ which she seemed to believe justified her expired deputyís license. Not being a lawyer, I did not pursue this point further. I again pointed out that I have the right not to answer questions, and that they did not have a warrant. Upon citing the 4th and 5th amendments, I was repaid with greater threats and hostility. Not knowing the finer points of law, and in fear of the threats to take me to jail, I gave them my driverís license.

They copied all of the information on my driverís license, and began to run my name through their computers. First, they looked up my criminal record, which is clean. Ron Stewart, the CPS agent had discovered that I worked at an Adult Family Home while he was with my mother, and joined the deputies while they were copying my information. Ron asked for, and the deputies gave him all the information that was on my driverís license. Ron also wanted the deputies to tell him which AFH I worked at, which I flatly refused to answer because I had the feeling like Ron was trying to find out where I worked so that he could take vindictive action against me for advising my mom not to consent to let law enforcement conduct a search of her home. I decided then that I would just leave the deputies and go back inside to assist my mom with supervising the licensors like I was asked to do.

As I was about to walk back into my motherís home, Tammy shouted out for them to stop me, as she had just found out (by running my information in their computers) that I was a concealed carry permit holder. At this point they became very nervous, and detained me from going anywhere. They kept their distance from me, but ordered me to sit in a patio chair and not put my hands anywhere near my pockets. I was then interrogated on whether I had a firearm in my car, which I answered no. Then they asked me if I was carrying a firearm on my person. I was very apprehensive of their hostile manner, and I told them that I was indeed carrying my Concealed Carry Pistol (CCP). While I was detained on the patio chair as I had been ordered to do, the male deputy informed me that if my hands got too close to my pockets that I would be shot.

At this point I was speechless at what was happening, and frightened. After a few minutes of the deputies watching me while making phone calls on their cell phones about me, I offered to decrease the tension, as I did not want to be shot by the deputies as they threatened to do. They had not tried to disarm me at this point, despite detaining me. I told them that they were obviously very uncomfortable with the fact that I had a CCP, and that they were detaining me from helping my mother because I had a CCP, so being the good person I am, I offered for them to hold my CCP so that I could be allowed to go back inside, as long as they PROMISED to give my CCP back to me at the conclusion of our interaction. Both Tammy and the male deputy agreed.

I stood up out of the patio chair, turned my back to them and told them my CCP was in my back right pocket inside a pocket holster and invited them to reach into my pocket to extract my CCP. I told them I I did not want to reach for it myself, as they had already threatened to shoot me if my hands got near my pockets. While my back was turned, they came up behind me, but instead of just extracting my CCP, they restrained my hands, took away my cell phone (which had been recording the incident stealthily) made me spread my legs, and then proceeded to give me a very invasive search, including groping my genitals through my shorts. I was scared and speechless about what was happening to me at this point and offered no resistance or complaint. After the search, they removed my CCP, spare magazine, and my Leatherman multi tool, and then ordered me to sit in the patio chair again and not move. I was suddenly surprised to see the deputy removing my CCP from its pocket holster, which I did not expect them to do. I immediately asked them to ďPlease be very carefulĒ as they were probably not familiar with my Smith and Wesson Bodyguard 380, and told him that I keep my CCP chambered and hot. He snapped at me to ďShut upĒ and that he didnít want to hear me talk anymore. He removed the magazine, un-chambered the single round from my CCP and spread it all out on the patio table.

Since I had been disarmed now, I stood up to go inside, upon which they stopped me again. I pointed out that they had disarmed me, and had agreed to let me go help my mother after they had done so. They reneged on their agreement and continued to detain me on the patio chair outside. It was obvious they were not going to let me back into the house at this point, and they said I could have another gun inside my motherís house, which was their reasoning for my continued detainment. I was obviously not going to be able to help my mother any further.

We were informed that the search had then been completed, and no marijuana grow operation had been found. However the licensors, CPS agent and sheriffís deputies remained for a couple more hours after I was able to leave to continue with their investigation. With my mother having been vindicated, I then asked if I was free to leave the property completely, upon which the deputies agreed to let me leave. I asked for my CCP to be returned to me, as they had agreed to do in good faith, and they refused, despite the fact that they had already cleared my mother of wrongdoing. They informed me that they would have to confiscate the CCP and take it to the police station. I politely refused to leave without my CCP, so I sat back down. Tammy went off to the back of the house, and the male plain clothes deputy stayed with me to watch me. I realized I was going to have to convince the deputy to return my CCP, so I had a 20-30 minute conversation aimed at showing the deputy that I was a good person, that I was law abiding, talked with him about my philosophy of carrying a concealed pistol, and my philosophy about the use of lethal force for defense. I also told him the story of my having survived a home invasion 20 months earlier because I had my CCP on me inside my home. I told him how I drew my pistol on the perpetrators, but never had to fire my weapon because they ultimately left without attacking me, and related how relieved I was that I did not have to discharge my firearm, even on violent men inside my own home.

During our conversation, Tammy briefly returned to where I was talking with the male deputy. Ron, the CPS agent came out the front door, and looked very anxiously at my CCP and ammunition laid out on the patio table in plain view. He made a remark to Tammy about my CCP. I was horrified to hear Tammy tell Ron that I had been armed the whole time I was with him, and that I could have ďshot everyone up insideĒ. Ron was also was very distressed that I had an extra magazine of ammunition.

After our conversation, the male deputy was more at ease, and agreed that I could leave with my CCP, but would personally place the unloaded pistol in the trunk of my car so I could not get to it before leaving. He also ordered me not to return to my motherís house for the rest of the day. I later found that he had kept one of my defensive hollow point rounds, and never returned it to me. After he had locked my CCP in my trunk, they allowed me to leave the property.

But it didnít end there.

Later that night, despite my mother having been exonerated of all the accusations of growing marijuana at her day care, Ron Stewart called her at her home, and inferred that he would make her life difficult if she did not divulge what Adult Family Home I worked at. My mother, afraid of what the CPS agent might do to her, told Ron where I worked.
It was two days later, after what I assume to be a complaint filed by Ron Stewart to my DSHS licensors about me, that Sylvia Shauvin (DSHS Complaint Investigator) raided my AFH in the company of two law enforcement officers. I do not positively know that Ron Stewart filed the complaint, because DSHS will not share any information about who filed the complaint, what Iíve been accused of, or how I was portrayed by the accuser. It seems obvious that it was Ron Stewart though given his phone call to my mom two days prior, and his behavior at my motherís house on the 17th.
Elder care DSHS licensors are a separate department from child care DSHS licensors. I was not at the retirement home at the time, so I heard that the police who came to the door and asked for me left almost immediately upon finding I was not there. Sylvia then came in to conduct her investigation. My father James Lowell, is the provider/owner of the AFH, and came down to meet at the home with Sylvia. James felt good about the meeting, and showed the DSHS licensor the locked cabinet that I built myself inside the caregiverís bedroom where I store my firearm when I am not carrying it at work. The only WAC (Washington Administrative Code) that pertains to firearms in adult family homes simply states that, ďKeep all firearms locked and accessible only to authorized persons.Ē This is why I built a locking gun cupboard three years ago before I started carrying a CCP, and because I would never leave a gun unlocked when not on my person at work simply for safety reasons. We expected the investigation to end at that time, since the licensors plainly saw our locking gun cabinet, putting us in compliance with the law.

But it didnít end there.

I started hearing from my employees that Sylvia had been calling them, expanding her investigation to include questions about what kinds firearms I had at my personal residence, whether I kept them loaded or not at my personal residence, which of them I bring to work, whether I show my firearms to my elderly residents, and other questions about my personal life outside of work. Sylvia (I suspect) even had my motherís DSHS licensor Karen Cole call my mother and ask these same invasive questions that should be far outside the scope of their investigation. My mother refused to answer Karenís question about the kinds and types of firearms I own. Sylvia called me a few days later. I remained very cordial, and even apologetic, and stated that I did not feel comfortable answering her questions over the phone due to the types of questions about my personal life she was now asking. I cordially offered to meet her in person to answer some questions so that I could record the conversation for my protection, and because I was considering some type of legal action. Before I could explain to Sylvia that the legal action I was talking about was intended for the deputies that had detained me at my motherís home and their reprehensible behavior that day, Sylvia quickly said she had to talk to her supervisor and hung up.

During the next day or two, I had drafted an email to send to Sylvia to request a copy of the complaint filed against me, as I still had no confirmation of what I was being accused of, only suspicions. I heard that if I asked specifically for a ďfull and timely disclosureĒ in writing, that DSHS would be required to give me a copy of the complaint filed or face some sort of fine if they did not furnish it to me within 5 days. This request was all for the purpose of filing a complaint against Ron Stewart, and the deputies that accosted me on the 17th. I have attached a copy of my request to this deposition.

Sylvia and DSHS never responded to my ďfull and timely disclosureĒ request. They did however call my father, James Lowell, and told him of the request, read it to him, told him that they were going to start involving upper management at DSHS, and threatened to revoke our license unless we met in person for questioning. Meeting in person was exactly what I had wanted to do all along, and I had already requested it specifically to Sylvia, so I readily agreed when my father proposed a date and time, though I set the expectation to my father that I would not answer any questions regarding firearms I own and keep inside my personal residence to the DSHS investigators.

We met at the adult family home, however, the DSHS investigatos (Sylvia, and her supervisor whoís name I donít have) would not exit their vehicle to meet with us until police arrived 15 minutes later to escort them while they were in my presence, a sign that they believed I was a very dangerous person. Two Spokane Valley police officers arrived, and escorted us into the AFH. The Spokane Valley Police officers were very cordial. At this time, I started recording everything on my camera phone for my own protection. We briefly stopped inside so that the investigators could again see my locking gun cabinet where I store my firearms when Iím not carrying. They did not ask me to unlock and open the gun cabinet where my home defense shotgun was currently stored, for which I am grateful, as a home defense shotgun can appear very intimidating to those who are gun shy or are in-experienced with firearms. They would not remark on anything to show what they might have been thinking, just took some notes and thanked us for showing the locking gun cabinet.

Continued>>>>
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Old 09-14-2011, 23:25   #2
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So that the police presence would not disturb residents or guests, we had our meeting out on the patio, while the police officers stood out in the back yard to supervise. I was asked if I had a weapon on me at that time, and I told them I didn’t, as I had just driven into town from a vacation weekend at our family lake cabin at Christina Lake, BC. Normally I carry every time I’m out of my home, but because I can’t carry in Canada, I did not have my CCP that day.

The meeting was very cordial; the DSHS investigators were also very cordial and non-hostile. They had also dropped all of their questions they had been calling my family members and employees about my personal firearms that I own and keep in my personal residence. Mostly their questions were about why we find it necessary to carry a firearm at work, and what firearms I have brought to work. I also keep a home defense shotgun, loaded with bean bag rounds, permanently stored at the adult family home (up until now) locked in my gun cabinet. When asked what made it a “home defense” shotgun, and how it was different than a hunting shotgun. I explained that it had a longer magazine tube, a door breaching choke, a pistol grip with extendable but stock, and a flashlight attached to the front for proper identification of targets. In their documentation, they refer to it as a “modified” shotgun. Every feature on my shotgun is store bought and completely legal. It does however look incredibly intimidating. My philosophy about a home defense firearm, is that the more “intimidating” it looks, the less chance you’ll ever have to use it, because you stand a better chance of scaring away an attacker without having to discharge your weapon.

After 30 minutes or so, the police asked if they could leave, and the investigators said they were fine and gave them permission to leave. My father and I were very relieved after the 40 minute meeting. The meeting went well, and we had believed that we expressed our views on firearms, and answered the investigators questions to their satisfaction. Despite our having complied with the firearms laws, my father further offered the DSHS investigators to adopt a no firearms policy in the AFH, as long as we could substitute the firearm with a Taser and pepper spray. The investigators said they would consider the offer. We expected the matter to be closed soon. I also have a full recording of this meeting.

But it didn’t end there.

Over the next week, Sylvia made a couple of calls to Tracy Michelbook, our resident care manager to get copies of our resident’s care plans. We are accustomed to requests for our residents care plans by DSHS during every normal inspection by our licensors, and thought nothing of it. Little did we know, that they were collecting the information because they were planning to revoke our AFH License.

On September 13th, my father received the notice, and was called down to the DSHS office to be informed our adult family home was being shut down, and that I was no longer permitted to enter the facility, presumably because they have decided that I’m a danger to the residents, and that James Lowell was not fit to be a provider because he knowingly allowed me to carry a concealed firearm while at work caring for elderly residents.


That is the story. I have recordings on my cell phone of the encounter with the deputies in August, as well as recordings of the meeting with the DSHS investigators. I’m grateful that I have the recordings of the interactions, because the deputies, DSHS personnel, and the CPS agent Ron Stewart are painting me as a belligerent, un-cooperative, and dangerous person who owns a gun. The recordings plainly show I am non-hostile, non-belligerent, and quite cordial to everyone, despite how they were treating me. I reviewed the recording of the meetings, and I can’t understand how anyone of sound reasoning and common sense could possibly be doing the things they are doing to me, or to my employees, and to my residents. I never thought it could happen to me. That regardless of my responsible gun ownership, clean criminal record, that I’ve been carrying a CCP at work for 3 years incident free, and that I am among the 2% of the gun owning population that takes formal firearm training classes (I have over 100 hours of pistol and home defense shotgun safety and defense training from Ed Santos at Center Target Sports in Post Falls, ID) I have been labeled a villain. A criminal. My business has been shut down. My employees will lose their jobs. My elderly residents will be evicted from their home. My livelihood is in jeopardy. Since I’ve been disbarred from the AFH, it is doubtful that DSHS will ever allow me to work in the elder care industry again, and permanently label me as a dangerous person in my DSHS background check if I ever tried to seek employment related to elder care, child care, or any health industry DSHS oversees in their regulatory duty.



I tried looking into legal help from an attorney, and quickly discovered how many thousands of dollars it would cost for me to access the law in any useful way. I’m not a rich person. I pay my bills like any other citizen. I have a small and modest home I bought last December, but I’m proud of it, as it is my first home I’ve ever owned. But the cost of accessing the law for an average man like me is just too great. So I can only hope that I can find help wherever I can.

I hope my story will be read by many. I hope my story will reverse all of the awful things that have been done to me, my employees, my mother, my elderly residents and to liberty this past month. If not, America is not the bastion of freedom that I thought it was, and our bill of rights in the constitution is nothing but hollow words written in some old document that no one cares about anymore. I can barely write this paragraph without breaking down and crying.
In closing, I’d like to quote some words that I still remember from childhood.

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably. These words were spoken as wisdom, and warning. The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we are all damaged." ~Captain Jean-Luc Picard
God bless you and yours,
Spencer Lowell





Note: I, the poster of this thread am a friend of Spencer Lowell, I am not him.

PLEASE, help if you can! these bureaucrats and gun grabbing cops are out for blood. I have known this man for years, and I vouch for him. He is not dangerous (unless you are trying to kill him with a lethal weapon!)


-Peat
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Old 09-14-2011, 23:50   #3
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Good lord man your friend was detained because he wouldn't shut the crap up.
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Old 09-15-2011, 00:13   #4
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uh, Get a lawyer? Sorry, can't offer any more advice than that.

If it's as you say, it sounds pretty rotten. However, in these types of things, I generally find that the truth is somewhere in the middle, rather than coming down 100% on the police's side, or 100% on the complainants side.
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Old 09-15-2011, 00:38   #5
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Originally Posted by Adjuster View Post
Good lord man your friend was detained because he wouldn't shut the crap up.
As I said comments from the peanut gallery are not helpful.

You familiar with the right to free speech? He doesn't have to shut up, he can protect his family from an unlawful search with his words all he wants.
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Old 09-15-2011, 00:42   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyGunFreak View Post
uh, Get a lawyer? Sorry, can't offer any more advice than that.

If it's as you say, it sounds pretty rotten. However, in these types of things, I generally find that the truth is somewhere in the middle, rather than coming down 100% on the police's side, or 100% on the complainants side.

Thanks Indy, he's got one lawyer and is hunting for more, it's a matter of funds on that front.

I do agree, it usually is somewhere in the middle, and cops generally do perceive people who are well educated in the law and resistant to an investigation as a threat. I understand why some cops see things this way.

Please do note, he recorded audio of the incident, so I am sure it will eventually vindicate him, (or not.) I haven't heard the audio.

What we are hunting for is someone like the A.C.L.U. who would take this case on for free to battle the possible corruption in these state agencies if indeed it is warranted. While the A.C.L.U. HAS taken on several gun related rights issues, they may not be the first choice for obvious reasons.

I appreciate the replies, please keep them coming folks.
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Old 09-15-2011, 00:54   #7
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Lawyer up.'08.
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Old 09-15-2011, 00:55   #8
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Crazy crazy story!
Eager to hear what others say on the topic...
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Old 09-15-2011, 01:49   #9
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Whenever people find out you own guns, they'll use it any way they can to further their agenda.

Several years ago, I took a former employer to the Labor Board for refusing to pay me what he owed me. I prevailed & received a judgement plus interest. However, the first three hearings were canceled & rescheduled because I was told "they were unable to find a police officer to attend the meeting with us." I asked why that would be necessary. They explained, "Your employer said they're afraid of you because you own guns and you are an armed robber." Ha ha, good one - a convicted felon & gun owner. (Apparently, just saying "I own guns" wasn't enough to get a cop to attend the meeting, so they just added the armed robber bit to make the situation more desperate). What they really wanted was to keep delaying the hearing to frustrate me & hope I'd just drop it. Didn't work; it just made me more determined.

At the fourth hearing, a Highway Patrol officer sat in on the hearing. When everyone arrived & the hearing was about to begin, I told the officer, "I'm glad you're here....you can protect me from these idiots." He had to smile.
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Old 09-15-2011, 02:57   #10
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There has to be another side to the story.
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Old 09-15-2011, 03:51   #11
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His recordings.'08.
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Old 09-15-2011, 04:53   #12
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Is there a question in all this? "Please help" doesn't make the grade on that. What, specifically, are you asking for help on?
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Old 09-15-2011, 05:59   #13
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From the peanut gallery, But as was said his trouble stems from his inability to keep his mouth shut. He should have left the area not get in a pissing contest with the officers. This is usually an unwinable situation. He may win in the end but it is now going to come at a high cost. As no marijuana was found there is a very good chance that it would have ended right there but his interference with the police doing their job was the cause of his problems.
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:14   #14
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Your friend dug his own hole. So many thoughts come to my mind:

1. Spokane, WA is a bastion of gun hating liberals. How did your friend expect CPS, DSHS or the LEOs to behave?
2. He carried a concealed firearm to an active day care center; never a good idea even if it's his mother's home. Children were still present.
3. As soon as he knew Sheriff's deputies were at the scene, he should have unloaded his firearm and placed it in the trunk of his car.
4. As soon as he felt the deputies were not behaving professionally, he should have requested a supervisor--especially after determining the credentials of one of the deputies was expired.
5. Your friend erred greatly when he interjected himself into the situation. Let the DSHS/CPS folks look around. They find no MJ, the allegation is deemed unsubstantiated and everyone's happy.
6. Nothing good ever comes from pissing off DSHS or CPS. Their investigatory standards are pretty lax. All they need is suspicion and they will gnaw on that like a dog with a bone.
7. I'm surprised that the Washington Administrative Code allows for firearms in elder care facilities.
8. No one has the right to run a day care or a elder care facility. If DSHS even suspects that something is amiss, they will find any reason to shut you down. (Look! Cockroach dropping on the kitchen floor! Unsanitary!!)
9. To describe a shot gun as a "home defense" shot gun does beg the question as to how it would differ from a hunting shot gun. It would have been better described as a standard shot gun purchased for home protection. Just because you and I know what we are talking about doesn't mean that others will. Communication requires that we use terms and language the other person will understand through the filter of their own biases.
10. Your friend owns a business and doesn't have a lawyer on retainer already? Amazing. In our litigious society, an on-going relationship with a good industry-specific lawyer is a must; especially one who already knows how to deal with DSHS. As to money, that's the cost of doing business.

Hope it turns out well for your friend, but it all could have been avoided.
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:30   #15
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Those who insist on skating on thin ice may or may not get a cold bath. In this case, he should have stayed away from the thin stuff. If he has the money, he may come out on top. Hopefully he will come out on top. Given where this happened, he'd probably best be prepared for not coming out on top.
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Old 09-15-2011, 10:42   #16
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LoadToda: valid points in there. Can't say I agree with all of them, but some are spot on. To clarify, the business belongs to his family. I appreciate that one of the first comments states he should have just shut up, and I hope that folks commenting after that are basing their opinion on what they read.
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Old 09-15-2011, 10:43   #17
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Sam Spade: Suggestions on who to go to for legal help. The NRA is first on the list. I was hoping someone else might have some ideas.
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Old 09-15-2011, 10:57   #18
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Folks, please, if you're going to respond to the OP, do so without the rude comments.
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Old 09-15-2011, 10:59   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hackinpeat View Post
Sam Spade: Suggestions on who to go to for legal help. The NRA is first on the list. I was hoping someone else might have some ideas.
Armed Citizens Network, which has a strong presence in Seattle. They probably won't help themselves (more oriented to self-defense issues) but they'll be tied to local people who can.

And to the side: tell him that carrying bean bags in a home defense shotgun is moronic.
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Old 09-15-2011, 11:04   #20
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The ACLU does some good stuff, still.
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