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Old 06-20-2011, 15:06   #51
Burien
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Yep, no more Lee progressive press loading for me with MAX 10mm loads, I use the Dillon 550 and hand weight each charge coming from my large powder bar measure. With 800x it varies from 13.5 to 13.0 when I'm loading for a 13.0 grain charge, so each one is weighed.
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Old 06-20-2011, 17:40   #52
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NEVER USE 800X and Mag primers in 10mm, just a reminder... I had to pull down some loads this weekend, save your time and DO NOT LOAD MAG primers with 800x in 10mm, not a good thing.
OK!! YOU weren't even scared after posting pics of smiling brass and missing primers BUT now you are scared and didn't show any pics of the aftermath?? OMG, I want to see brass that was partially dissintigrated or mushroom clouds and missing trees in the nearby forest! DO TELL!!
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Old 06-20-2011, 18:12   #53
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It blew up his camera.


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OK!! YOU weren't even scared after posting pics of smiling brass and missing primers BUT now you are scared and didn't show any pics of the aftermath?? OMG, I want to see brass that was partially dissintigrated or mushroom clouds and missing trees in the nearby forest! DO TELL!!
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Old 06-20-2011, 18:19   #54
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No guns were hurt on this, just more abused brass for my scrap pile.
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Old 06-20-2011, 19:59   #55
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No guns were hurt on this, just more abused brass for my scrap pile.
Whew! It doesn't matter if you get a little shrapnel in your face or if the brass is bad, I can finally relax because after 3 pages of posts, I find out the guns are ok. I think I will have a beer.
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Old 06-20-2011, 20:05   #56
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looks like you were fireforming 10mm belted magnum brass.
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Old 06-20-2011, 20:39   #57
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Originally Posted by Burien View Post
Yep, no more Lee progressive press loading for me with MAX 10mm loads, I use the Dillon 550 and hand weight each charge coming from my large powder bar measure. With 800x it varies from 13.5 to 13.0 when I'm loading for a 13.0 grain charge, so each one is weighed.
I've only been rolling my own for over a year on a Dillon 550. While I'm very careful with this hobby I did have a situation that concerned me so I picked up a "Press Monitor" for the added accountability.

I don't weigh every charge EXCEPT for the # of 800x but I do use check weights to verify my Dillon elec scale before each session and randomly verify during each session. I fired my first rounds with this powder tonight breaking in a Tanfoglio Witness Limited. At 8.7 gr and a 180gr FMJ I was at max load per my manuals. Those loads were stout and I liked them. Can't imagine 13 grains...wow! I also ran some LS loads that were at max and they were a close 2nd.

Thanks for posting the pics. It helps this newbie understand some of the fineer points I have not been taught.
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Old 06-20-2011, 21:13   #58
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800x - 13.0 grains is great with the 135 grain nosler JHP, others on here push them with more nitro under the cap, but I stick with 13.0-13.1, over 100 fired and the only problem I have is running out of watermellon targets!

Last edited by Burien; 06-20-2011 at 21:14..
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Old 06-21-2011, 07:13   #59
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Even with meticulous brass inspection, It is possible to have a flawed piece of brass from any manufacturer. You are still depending on the brass to handle the pressure in the unsupported areas of the chamber.

I have had situations where I know the pressures were at the Max Saami average and still had a blowout.

Ammo brass is anealed so that it can stretch to meet the chamber wall without splitting, then contract after the firing to allow easy extraction. This is a narrow state for a piece of brass to be in. And varies.

The anealing process is not suppose to be used on the base and lower wall to allow it to stay harder and stronger. But the anealing process is just a method of heating the top area of brass.

Variances in the timing/temperature or startup/stopping of this process can cause variances that are not visible to the eye.

Maybe only one in 10k pieces has some sort of issue. But you can't see it. The only way to protect against this issue is to not depend on the brass to hold the pressure(full chamber support), or back way off on the load.

Last edited by mudrush; 06-21-2011 at 07:43..
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:37   #60
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Being an old fart, I'm fond of the writings of Elmer Kieth.

Recently I was perusing "Gun Notes" were old Elmer is cursing the usage of the words "Maximum Loads". He went on to point out that in his opinion these should be called dangerous loads, due to the many, many variables involved in components, loading technique, firearms and environment. He claimed that smokeless power can quickly reach a certain point were it detonates.

For the younger guys who may not have heard of Old Man Keith, he was no stranger to hot rodding loads, especially the .44 Special, his work convinced Smith and Wesson and Remington to produce the .41 and .44 Magnum, back in the day.

He suggests the "best" load was often below max, with the most important criteria of a load being safety, accuracy and bullet construction, pointing out that to much velocity can be a bad thing if the bullet isn't constructed for it. Not to mention the unnecessary pounding of the gun.

Food for thought.

Last edited by Jitterbug; 06-21-2011 at 11:39..
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Old 06-21-2011, 11:37   #61
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Quote:
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Even with meticulous brass inspection, It is possible to have a flawed piece of brass from any manufacturer. You are still depending on the brass to handle the pressure in the unsupported areas of the chamber.

I have had situations where I know the pressures were at the Max Saami average and still had a blowout.

Ammo brass is anealed so that it can stretch to meet the chamber wall without splitting, then contract after the firing to allow easy extraction. This is a narrow state for a piece of brass to be in. And varies.

The anealing process is not suppose to be used on the base and lower wall to allow it to stay harder and stronger. But the anealing process is just a method of heating the top area of brass.

Variances in the timing/temperature or startup/stopping of this process can cause variances that are not visible to the eye.

Maybe only one in 10k pieces has some sort of issue. But you can't see it. The only way to protect against this issue is to not depend on the brass to hold the pressure(full chamber support), or back way off on the load.
Very true, too many variables...that is precisely why I purchased the StormLake, Lone Wolf Dist barrels for better chamber support for the G-29 and Bar-Sto conversions for my S&W 1006. Most of all, I practice maticulus safest loading practices possible. Why? It's my hands wrapped around the pistol.

It is still quite possible that Murphy will visit one day!
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Old 06-21-2011, 11:41   #62
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[QUOTE

It is still quite possible that Murphy will visit one day![/QUOTE]

Ain't that the truth!

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Old 06-22-2011, 05:04   #63
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[QUOTE

It is still quite possible that Murphy will visit one day!
"Ain't that the truth!"

And that's why I wear Kevlar gloves when testing new "full-house" loads.
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:32   #64
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"Ain't that the truth!"

And that's why I wear Kevlar gloves when testing new "full-house" loads.
+1
Revision Sawfly glasses and kevlar/spectra lined gloves were not expensive equipment but wouldn't develop my hot 10mm loads without. In the beginning I had only Rex Magnum powder and no 10mm data for it, some hot loads were developed from scratch.
Later I switched to Vihtavuori 3N38 (for 155 and 165 gr) and N105 (for 180 and 200gr), but when crossed book max data always had gloves on as well. Glasses are always on anyway when shooting - even with 22lr
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Old 06-22-2011, 12:13   #65
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More then once I've had my cheeks peppered by particles and would have had my eye hit by spent cases if it weren't for glasses, and not just with reloads, factory ammo too.
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Old 06-22-2011, 12:44   #66
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-kevlar gloves added to my midway usa cart, thanks
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Old 06-25-2011, 08:17   #67
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I can't even imagine someone using TG to go off the books. Lucky is the only word I can come up with & be playing nice. Stick to printed data. Glocks are not bullet proof, JMO.
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Old 06-26-2011, 05:39   #68
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Pretty close.

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Stick to printed data. Glocks are not bullet proof, JMO.

My 10 survived 16gr PP (accidental double charge) with only a cracked trigger, mag release, and extractor. I had some bruised thumbs. I do NOT recommend anyone else using that recipe.

Attachment 217359
Attachment 217360
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Old 06-26-2011, 08:55   #69
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My 10 survived 16gr PP (accidental double charge) with only a cracked trigger, mag release, and extractor. I had some bruised thumbs. I do NOT recommend anyone else using that recipe.

Attachment 217359
Attachment 217360
OUCH! Thanks for sharing this info and pics...

What bullet weight where you shooting with the 8grain charge that got doubled?
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Old 06-26-2011, 09:12   #70
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OUCH! Thanks for sharing this info and pics...

What bullet weight where you shooting with the 8grain charge that got doubled?
I was using published Lyman max of 8gr PP 180gr OAL 1.255 CCI 300. I have an auto indexing press (Dillon SDB) and was having some primer misfeads due to a cracked dispenser cap. Got distracted moving things around and missed a double charge. This was prior to adding a flashlight to shine down into the cases. Honestly, my initial impression was that the gun was trashed. After breaking it down, it cost me $37 in parts to fix and a 10rd mag. I was lucky that I only got some hand damage from the shockwave. It will never happen again, but it's nice knowing that the gun could handle that much.
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Old 06-26-2011, 09:43   #71
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Originally Posted by GTRhino24 View Post
I was using published Lyman max of 8gr PP 180gr OAL 1.255 CCI 300. I have an auto indexing press (Dillon SDB) and was having some primer misfeads due to a cracked dispenser cap. Got distracted moving things around and missed a double charge. This was prior to adding a flashlight to shine down into the cases. Honestly, my initial impression was that the gun was trashed. After breaking it down, it cost me $37 in parts to fix and a 10rd mag. I was lucky that I only got some hand damage from the shockwave. It will never happen again, but it's nice knowing that the gun could handle that much.
Thanks for sharing and glad you were not seriously hurt!
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Old 07-12-2011, 13:30   #72
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Accidents happen, at least the pictures are pure evidence of what really happens, not just "tales of high pressure" and double charge dangers.


,

Last edited by Burien; 07-12-2011 at 19:09..
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Old 07-13-2011, 23:28   #73
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Originally Posted by GTRhino24 View Post
My 10 survived 16gr PP (accidental double charge) with only a cracked trigger, mag release, and extractor. I had some bruised thumbs. I do NOT recommend anyone else using that recipe.

Attachment 217359
Attachment 217360
You didn't by chance happen to be chronographing at the time?

Hey, glad you're still in one piece!
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Old 07-15-2011, 14:33   #74
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You didn't by chance happen to be chronographing at the time?

Hey, glad you're still in one piece!
Ha! Unfortunately, no. I'd like to know how fast I was going when I packed up the pieces and got the hell out of there though! There were some Glock remnants on the range somewhere. I didn't find the follower, extractor rod, mag spring, etc. I'm sure the next guy wondered what happened.
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Old 07-15-2011, 23:45   #75
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Ha! Unfortunately, no. I'd like to know how fast I was going when I packed up the pieces and got the hell out of there though! There were some Glock remnants on the range somewhere. I didn't find the follower, extractor rod, mag spring, etc. I'm sure the next guy wondered what happened.
With a load like that I wouldn't know where to even start speculating the fps.
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