[nickE10mm]

Originally Posted by MinervaDoe

Which beats the heck out of having a date with an eye surgeon or a pastic surgeon.

Yes sir it does. By far

[Burien]

I have pulled down all my Large Pistol Magnum 10mm loads, no more issues with High Preassure. FYI pass it on

[hubcap500]

Why the ****** are there ***4*** cases like that???????? Why didn't you stop after the 1st one????? EVERYONE makes mistakes, but to keep repeating the same one is asking for gene pool police to show up. Hope I'm not near you at the range.

[Burien]

There are only 4 because the other 6 were lost in the snow

[hubcap500]

To borrow a saying from the Pilot's Association...."There are old reloaders and there are bold reloaders, but there are no old bold reloaders."

[Kegs]

Originally Posted by hubcap500

To borrow a saying from the Pilot's Association...."There are old reloaders and there are bold reloaders, but there are no old bold reloaders."

Define old. Long before I bought a Glock, I loaded up .270 Winchester enough to completely split the case of it. T/C Encore chambers can take one heck of a wallop. The kind of wallop that can sustain a bold reloader in fact.

[tkosiba]

Tite Group has been known to have pressure spikes sneak up on you; meaning, it shows no normal pressure sign build-up, then a tenth grain more...lookout! Also, use stronger Winchester brass on max or near max loads. It's safer.

[MinervaDoe]

Originally Posted by Kegs

Define old. Long before I bought a Glock, I loaded up .270 Winchester enough to completely split the case of it. T/C Encore chambers can take one heck of a wallop. The kind of wallop that can sustain a bold reloader in fact.

... and how old are you?

[Burien]

NEVER USE 800X and Mag primers in 10mm, just a reminder... I had to pull down some loads this weekend, save your time and DO NOT LOAD MAG primers with 800x in 10mm, not a good thing.

[Dave T]

Based on this thread and a number of others I've seen on the internet, my question is why those reloading for the 10mm seem to dis-regard almost all the normal, accepted safety rules of reloading? As an example, one guy posted that his primers were a little flat but he thought he could push it a little father. What the (expletive deleted) is it about this cartridge that spawns this stuff?

Maybe it would help to just admit the 10mm is not a magnum revolver cartridge and quit trying to load it like one. (shaking head in disbelief)

Dave

[nickE10mm]

Originally Posted by Dave T

Based on this thread and a number of others I've seen on the internet, my question is why those reloading for the 10mm seem to dis-regard almost all the normal, accepted safety rules of reloading? As an example, one guy posted that his primers were a little flat but he thought he could push it a little father. What the (expletive deleted) is it about this cartridge that spawns this stuff?

Maybe it would help to just admit the 10mm is not a magnum revolver cartridge and quit trying to load it like one. (shaking head in disbelief)

Dave

1. Most (90% or more) factory loads (and most published handload recipes, in fact) only mimic .40SW ballistics. What's the point of all that case capacity if you see no benefit?

2. The 10mm is RIGHT on the edge of being a significant hunting caliber with the other magnums but unless you load closer to 37,500psi, it's only a service caliber.

I'm not condoning the OP or thread necessarily; just observing. Most of us don't want to load over pressure. Being over book doesn't necessarily mean over pressure. YMMV.

[21Carrier]

The problem seems to be that many of the loading books have been watered down to the point of the cartridge not reaching full potential. That's not true of all of them (Hornady's new manual is pretty hot), but some (Lyman) are EXTREMELY conservative. Look up some 10mm loads for 800-X if you don't believe this. Do you see how the book maxes out at 30,000psi for 800-X? Well the 10mm has a 37,500psi ceiling.

I'm not saying some of us don't do stupid stuff, and I agree with you that it's almost like a sickness exclusive to 10mm. With .45ACP, I don't go over book at all. With 10mm, however, I have. I think it's just because everyone that loads for 10mm is looking for performance, not just paper killing, easy recoiling stuff. If you just want light recoil target stuff, you have no business with a 10mm. However, if you are seeking performance, you buy a 10mm. And in the same vein, if you are seeking performance, you push the limits.

I know we do some dangerous stuff, but it's not like 3 out of every 5 of us are missing fingers. We are very careful about working stuff up slowly, checking for expansion, etc. Every once in a while an accident happens, but I doubt it happens more frequently among us than it does among the general gun shooting group.

[headblade]

Amen 21. The IMR data center lists 30,000 PSI as it's max for 800x. Dang lawyers! And yes. I didn't by a 10mm to punch paper. I couldn't afford a rocket launcher so I settled for the next best thing.

[whenmonkeysfly]

Originally Posted by headblade

Amen 21. The IMR data center lists 30,000 PSI as it's max for 800x. Dang lawyers! And yes. I didn't by a 10mm to punch paper. I couldn't afford a rocket launcher so I settled for the next best thing.

Ditto 10mm fans! And, I just ordered a new Hornady Reloading Manual.

[21Carrier]

Originally Posted by whenmonkeysfly

Ditto 10mm fans! And, I just ordered a new Hornady Reloading Manual.

I think you'll like Hornady's manual. It doesn't have much data for 10mm, as it's really just for Hornady's bullets (155, 180, and 200gr), but what it does have is hotter than any other published stuff I've seen.

[whenmonkeysfly]

And I just got one of these for load development and critter control:



(A Smith and Wesson 610 6 1/2" 10mm)

[nickE10mm]

Originally Posted by whenmonkeysfly

And I just got one of these for load development and critter control:



(A Smith and Wesson 610 6 1/2" 10mm)

You dirty rat!! I'd love one of those ... the only thing I'd want differently than yours is an unfluted cylinder.

Nice grab!

[mudrush]

The pics of the brass in this thread are the same as I have gotten while testing.

The chamber on a kkm barrel is not truly fully supported. This almost looks like a glock chamber, but not to the same degree.

I have tested with Lone wolf and storm lake without having this issue.

KKM is very good but not quite a max pressure chamber.

[Burien]

I like the KKM because they are a bit more forgiving on chamber tolerances, some of the true "match" chambers are so tight and picky you would have to chamber check each round after loading.

Glock gives so much room in the chamber because the gun Has to work, un-burnt powder or debris could cause a round not to fully chamber and not fire in a match chamber. So glock is great for duty use.

KKM is the next best in my opinion for real world use, match shooting, hunting or self defense when your gun has to fire. The three seconds it takes to clear a failure to fire could have crappy results.
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<o:p></o:p>
I was loading blind for lead free bullets, lesson learned by me, hopefully nobody reads this and makes the same error. <o:p></o:p>

[glock20c10mm]

Originally Posted by 21Carrier

Do you see how the book maxes out at 30,000psi for 800-X? Well the 10mm has a 37,500psi ceiling.

Not to mention the FACT that 37,500 PSI is SAAMI AVERAGE maximum rated pressure for the 10mm Auto.

[mudrush]

Originally Posted by Burien

I like the KKM because they are a bit more forgiving on chamber tolerances, some of the true "match" chambers are so tight and picky you would have to chamber check each round after loading.

Glock gives so much room in the chamber because the gun Has to work, un-burnt powder or debris could cause a round not to fully chamber and not fire in a match chamber. So glock is great for duty use.

KKM is the next best in my opinion for real world use, match shooting, hunting or self defense when your gun has to fire. The three seconds it takes to clear a failure to fire could have crappy results.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I was loading blind for lead free bullets, lesson learned by me, hopefully nobody reads this and makes the same error. <o:p></o:p>

I agree, It just depends on the intended purpose.

I polish the tight lone wolf chambers until I like them and still get a fully supported chamber.

[Burien]

summer is here, watch out for ammo in the hot sun, effects preassure on some max loads.

[mudrush]

Originally Posted by 21Carrier

The problem seems to be that many of the loading books have been watered down to the point of the cartridge not reaching full potential. That's not true of all of them (Hornady's new manual is pretty hot), but some (Lyman) are EXTREMELY conservative. Look up some 10mm loads for 800-X if you don't believe this. Do you see how the book maxes out at 30,000psi for 800-X? Well the 10mm has a 37,500psi ceiling.

I'm not saying some of us don't do stupid stuff, and I agree with you that it's almost like a sickness exclusive to 10mm. With .45ACP, I don't go over book at all. With 10mm, however, I have. I think it's just because everyone that loads for 10mm is looking for performance, not just paper killing, easy recoiling stuff. If you just want light recoil target stuff, you have no business with a 10mm. However, if you are seeking performance, you buy a 10mm. And in the same vein, if you are seeking performance, you push the limits.

I know we do some dangerous stuff, but it's not like 3 out of every 5 of us are missing fingers. We are very careful about working stuff up slowly, checking for expansion, etc. Every once in a while an accident happens, but I doubt it happens more frequently among us than it does among the general gun shooting group.

I think the majority of this "watering" down is coming from the large volume of semi supported chambers out in the world. Not just Glock.

I personally have come to the conclusion that without a fully supported chamber and increased spring, You can't run at 37.5kpsi consistently without some risks. Everyone is cautious.

With these chambers, you depend on the brass alone.

But, If the brass had a thicker base wall/web area, maybe. IMHO

[robert91922]

Originally Posted by Burien

summer is here, watch out for ammo in the hot sun, effects preassure on some max loads.

You're right. I chronoed recently some of my loads developed at winter temperatures and beside nice increase of speed there are "nice" signs of overpressure as well
So today I loaded some of my main wood loads with 8,3% less powder.

[_The_Shadow]

Here is the situation with SAAMI for the 10mm it is not a ceiling at 37,500 but an average of the MAP(Maximum Average Pressure) testing.

This is based on 10 cartridge test and the MAP of that test is scored based on the results.

Manufactures are responsible because they can be held liable, people like Mudrush, DT, BB are trying to provide for a select market of custom ammo but they don't know your equipment or it's condition while using their products, even though they test using exact or simular pistols.

It is possible that brass manufactures are not being as consistant to the true pressure rating, thus casings being made thinner or which are softer and flow/shear easier. Different manufactures building for thier own cartridge specs could account for the stuff we are seeing.

I hear a lot of people say that StarLine is soft and they see bulging or smiles but atribute this to lack of support. Combination of both come to mind here!

I have seen Federal Brass as shot from MP-5 10's which exibit splits on the initial factory loading. This can be a result of the fluted chamber of the MP-5 and or the cartridge case being brittle as made by Federal.

As a handloader I am responsible for my own safety...that being said...
I select the componets I wish to assemble for a particular loading.
I setup my pistol with increased recoil springs and/or stock or aftermarket barrels for my situation.
I build my loadings and test to insure 100% function more than maximum velocity although a balance for both are possible, because I take time to test and evaluate my findings. It is not that loader "A" did this that I can duplicate exactly what he/she did and expect the exact same results or safety.

I use many already fired cases from many different manufactures and test loads using some of each, but attention and careful inspection are part of every aspect of quality control on my part! I do throw away many rejected cases that show problems at any stage of the loading process, doing them single stage yeilds many opertunities to visually inspect them at each step. While working near the edge of ballistic performance I hand weigh each and every charge as though they are match grade ammunition, but that's how I roll'em! Yes it is slower! But I have 100% cofidence in my work that equals a satisfaction that pays dividens in quality custom ammunition at reasonable cost to me.

To those who use or intend to use progressive presses...leave yourself some room for variances, as there are many operations happening at the same time. Know and understand your equipment, eliminate any and all distractions and stay focused on what is going on! The one that scares me is powder bridging...this is where powder sort of gets stuck in the powder drop and all of a sudden it comes loose into one case...can we say..."Oh Oh!" Big Bada Boom!

I will say if someone doesn't share the passion of handloding don't do it, but if you are willing to understand all the processes, understand the limitations and put forth the time and effort, you too can roll your own ammunition. Safely!