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Old 02-14-2011, 02:54   #1
Paradox3713
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Swamp Fox vs Doubletap 10mm and .40 S&W Competition

At the beginning of January 2011 my team and I conducted velocity test putting Swamp Fox Ammunition against Double Tap Ammunition. This test was done because the team was looking for performance ammo to be used in home defense and carry situations. We have always purchased performance ammo from Doubletap and never once thought there was a need to question the numbers their site was giving. But after reading the numerous complaints we thought it was in our best interests to look into the claims especially since they were increasing the price of their ammo. You should always get what you're paying for. Swamp Fox was chosen as a competitor for the test and a request was made to create three custom loadings for us.

We were informed that only barrels with fully supported chambers should be used with this ammo but what Glock owner doesnt have an aftermarket barrel? Later it was decided that a .40 S&W load will also be tested and compared against the Hornandy .357 Magnum load since we were not able to find the well known Federal loading. The primary ammo we were looking to compare was two loadings for 10mm. A 135gr loading and a 150+ loading.

Two tests were conducted but the first test had issues with the chrony due to weather changes. The numbers below are from the final test conducted on 11FEB2011. It was a typical sunny California day, 60 degrees F with no wind. After this test we decided to request two custom sets of these three loadings. We've decided to use the ammo loading tested for our all metal handgun and carbine type firearms, and are currently requesting a lower power set reduced by 100fps to 125fps for our polymer handguns.

Mike Willard at Swampfox is such a perfectionist that when given the numbers and videos he was very concerned about the 135gr 10mm and is going back to check over current loadings again. That's how dedicated he is and why our team has come to trusts his work and why our team are moving to SF for our goto company for performance ammunition. Once Mike makes any needed corrections a newer test will be conducted. A IR chrony is expected to be used for the next test. Links to the videos will be added later.


The results are as follows -

TEST #1:
Ammo -
125gr Hornandy Critical Defense .357 Magnum (1500fps stated) vs 135gr Swamp Fox.40 S&W (1550fps).
Weapons Used-
Colt Python .357 Magnum with 4" Barrel vs SIG P229 with 4" Barrrel (3" barrel actual minus chamber)

.357 Magnum .40S&W
1318 1618
1390 1566
1352 1572
1364 1644
1350 1534

Test #2:
Ammo -
125gr Double Tap 10mm (1600fps stated) vs 135gr Swamp Fox 10mm (1700fps stated).
Weapon Used-
Glock 20 with Sprinco or DPM recoil reducer and 4.6" Barrrel (Minus 1.25" for chamber)

125gr DT 135gr SF
1510 1618
1537 1677
1527 1629
1516 1696
1534 1794

Test #3:
Ammo -
150gr Double Tap 10mm (1475 stated)vs 155gr Swamp Fox 10mm (1550 stated).
Weapon Used-
Glock 20 with Sprinco or DPM recoil reducer and 4.6" Barrrel (Minus 1.25" for chamber)

150gr DT 155gr SF
1342 1496
1374 1568
1350 1541
1368 1614
1374 1585

Previous test session involving the 135gr .40 S&W loading.
40 S&W (Performance numbers only):

SIG P229 w/ 4" barrel
1596
1592
1563
1546
1574

Glock 29 w/ 4.48" .40 S&W conversion barrel
1612
1650
1652
1591
1568


As seen here the chrony numbers are quite impressive. There are other areas still to be tested and they will be posted as well but for now this is what we have. We invite others to show us their results if they have conducted simlar tests.

VIDEOS:
.357 Magnum vs .40 S&W
http://www.mediafire.com/file/3q4lnj...0vs%2040SW.AVI

Doubletap 125gr 10mm vs Swamp Fox 135gr 10mm
http://www.mediafire.com/file/cnz49w...vs%20SF135.AVI

Doubletap 150gr 10mm vs Swamp Fox 155gr 10mm
http://www.mediafire.com/file/9lb806...vs%20SF155.AVI

Test Weapons Used
http://www.mediafire.com/file/hqsg1i...%20Weapons.AVI

Test Ammo Used
http://www.mediafire.com/file/v3husm...est%20Ammo.AVI



TSgt Nick 'Tac' Parker

Last edited by Paradox3713; 02-14-2011 at 03:27.. Reason: Video links added
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Old 02-14-2011, 18:50   #2
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Just out of curiosity…

What "Team" are you speaking of?
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Old 02-14-2011, 19:09   #3
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What Glock owner doesn't have an aftermarket barrel?

Most of us? Me at least.
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Old 02-14-2011, 19:33   #4
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Are you Mike's brother? In all seriousness, I love the Swampfox 175gr Silvertip 10mm load.
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Old 02-14-2011, 22:18   #5
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Originally Posted by JK-linux View Post
What Glock owner doesn't have an aftermarket barrel?

Most of us? Me at least.

You really only have one barrel and it's the stock barrel? Really? Is like everything stock on your weapon?
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Old 02-14-2011, 22:23   #6
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Originally Posted by Paradox3713 View Post
You really only have one barrel and it's the stock barrel? Really? Is like everything stock on your weapon?

Not answering for the other guy…

All of my Glocks are stock minus the sights. I have no aftermarket anything.

Is that bad? Should I get the bayonet attachment?
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Old 02-14-2011, 22:35   #7
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Originally Posted by Paradox3713 View Post
You really only have one barrel and it's the stock barrel? Really? Is like everything stock on your weapon?
Nah, I replaced everything I could to make it better. I saw it on the internet that operators always add stuff to their pistols. My Glocks are all really tactical.
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Old 02-14-2011, 22:36   #8
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Originally Posted by AZ Husker View Post
Are you Mike's brother? In all seriousness, I love the Swampfox 175gr Silvertip 10mm load.
If Mike and I were brothers I'm sure he and his family would be a little more than just shocked. LOL! But I'd love to have his experience and knowledge on making ammunition. Mike's the freakin' man. But he's also cost me money as I now have to find a new firearm that can easily tame his crazy work. LOL!

I used to be of the 175gr - 180gr crowd but have moved to the 155gr for my compacts. But 5" cannons so love 180gr dont they? I'm having my Glock 20 and 29 slides worked on. I am so going to hate the wait.
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Old 02-14-2011, 22:43   #9
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Originally Posted by SIGShooter View Post
Not answering for the other guy…

All of my Glocks are stock minus the sights. I have no aftermarket anything.

Is that bad? Should I get the bayonet attachment?
Im pretty sure that the last guy that got the bayonet attachment lost his job displaying his advanced 'skills' while on duty at the local mall. LOL!

But there's something to be said for those that master their weapons while stock.
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Old 02-14-2011, 22:47   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIGShooter View Post
Not answering for the other guy…

All of my Glocks are stock minus the sights. I have no aftermarket anything.

Is that bad? Should I get the bayonet attachment?
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Old 02-14-2011, 22:52   #11
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Originally Posted by JK-linux View Post
Nah, I replaced everything I could to make it better. I saw it on the internet that operators always add stuff to their pistols. My Glocks are all really tactical.
My buddy an I were just talking about this very thing. I was telling him that I have decided to go with the CZ-75 Compact or full size. He mentioned how Glocks almost seem like an unfinished product. Almost like you buy a raw diamond cheap and then you just mold it to your own specs. Which is why I'm having my slides lightened / reshaped. I'd guess that about 4oz of material will be removed.
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Old 02-14-2011, 23:56   #12
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OP

I would still like to know what "Teams" you are speaking of.

You sound like a fairly knowledgeable guy who knows how to operate.

Last edited by SIGShooter; 02-14-2011 at 23:57..
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Old 02-15-2011, 00:28   #13
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I'm also interested in this "team". Can anyone join or is it just for people who abuse Glocks?
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Old 02-15-2011, 00:34   #14
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I'm also interested in this "team". Can anyone join or is it just for people who abuse Glocks?

Yeah…Well I asked first and if there is a membership I would like to be the first!
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Old 02-15-2011, 00:55   #15
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Taking weight off of the slide will change the lockup timing. This could result in case failure. Please show pics or give us a link to who is doing the work. Thanks
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Old 02-15-2011, 04:53   #16
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Originally Posted by SIGShooter View Post
OP

I would still like to know what "Teams" you are speaking of.

You sound like a fairly knowledgeable guy who knows how to operate.
My apologies for taking so long to answer on this one. I'm currently on station at the moment and finally got a break. As for the answer to your question there's nothing special about the team. Just a bunch of Army, Air Force, and Contract personnel that are really into learning the fine art and discipline that is firearms. When you have to live on the West side of Kremlin wall of Kalifornia you find yourself taking every opportunity to learn and educate yourself. We love our country, our state, and our citizens, but we hate our laws because they lack any sign of logic and/or common sense. LOL!

If any of you are from here you know exactly what I mean.
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Old 02-15-2011, 05:12   #17
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Originally Posted by HK45Mark23 View Post
Taking weight off of the slide will change the lockup timing. This could result in case failure. Please show pics or give us a link to who is doing the work. Thanks

You are correct that there is a very good chance that having the work can possibly creat such failures and issues. But the good thing about the Glock is that it's been around so long you can find a replacement part almost anywhere for it. If something doesnt work you order a new part, retune, and retest will the bugs are worked out.

And the good thing about firearm sites, communities like this one, and military and/or LE backgrounds is that someone is always willing to learn and/or teach whatever they know.

As for the slide Glockworx are going to be doing the work but it won't come out looking crazy. The weapon still has to be FMC and look liks such. So no crazy windows or designs. I will post pics when the job is done but the end result has the slide looking similar to a H&K or SIG slide. This is due to how the Glock 20 and 29 is built. I'm also having the barrels worked on as well. I wish they would just do a total overhaul on the Glock. Its way overdue for a makeover and a retune.
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Old 02-15-2011, 05:18   #18
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Originally Posted by ronin.45 View Post
I'm also interested in this "team". Can anyone join or is it just for people who abuse Glocks?
Abuse? That kind of talk can make a person feel like they may need professional help, or an increase in their dosage.
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:12   #19
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I found this Double Tap-Speer .40cal ammo comparison enlightening;

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_De...r165grGDHP.htm

Quote:
Both newly tested loads performed adequately, however, there was a noticeable increase in flash, blast, and recoil with the Double Tap ammunition. Neither the Speer 165 gr Gold Dot nor the Double Tap Ammunition 155 gr loading was able to outperform the standard .40 S&W 155 gr Speer Gold Dot loading.

Bottom line, in this test, the DT ammunition offered NO advantages over standard factory ammunition and had the disadvantage of increased flash, blast, and recoil. Pressure testing might be prudent as well.
Any thoughts?

Bob
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Old 02-19-2011, 18:15   #20
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OP

I would still like to know what "Teams" you are speaking of.
You sound like a fairly knowledgeable guy who knows how to operate.
Clearly, ... Team 10mm

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