[Patchman]

Yes. Media lives and dies by sensationalism.

[tortoise]

Easy. Easy. I don't think he was saying anything like that.

Let me give you my couple of decades' opinion. Take it for what it costs ya'.

On the one hand, we did fight more in years past. I worked a foot post in the ghetto. By choice. -Twirling nightstick, the whole nine yards. Skipped the tests, skipped the details, etc. I LOVED it!

We (my old partners and I) do discuss this very thing. We generally attribute it to the present feminization of the culture. Back then people, regular people not just street guys, would fight us over nothing. I mean Nothing.

That, in particular, rarely happens now.

Also, twenty years ago was the crack epidemic. And that equalled a lot of violence. A LOT. You can see the spike on the chart in those years.

However, today things are changing. It is getting worse.

Why? Can't say for sure; theories include: a general sense of entitlement, feelings of guilt among certain demographics that excuse crime and feelings of "it's-payback-time" in others. -The last I would expect that any street cop has heard in so many words, and repeatedly, in the last two years.

Oh. And it occurs to me: if JSandi is a cop, and no one here like him, is that an anti-cop trend?

[TBO]

Originally Posted by RussP

I read a few, but, damn, I must have missed the good one. Got a link?

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1266863

[CAcop]

Jsandi reminds me of a guy at work. The only difference is that he throws out liberal stuff to be the contrarian. If you argue with him he gets all j***ed and happy. If you ignore him and go about his business.

I guess Jsandi is "that guy."

[4949shooter]

Originally Posted by CAcop

Jsandi reminds me of a guy at work. The only difference is that he throws out liberal stuff to be the contrarian. If you argue with him he gets all j***ed and happy. If you ignore him and go about his business.

I guess Jsandi is "that guy."

Yep brother.

And every department has "that guy."

[4949shooter]

Originally Posted by JSandi

Yes I did, "I have no beef"... I simply posted an article for discussion and the peanut gallery freaked out...

Answer the question JSandi.

What's your beef? What are you trying to prove here?

Answer the question.

[4949shooter]

Originally Posted by Dr Rockso

Is there something that I'm missing here?

Nope. Like was said before, fewer police officers die today because of improved training, tactics, and equipment.

Oh yeah, trauma centers have improved also.

[RussP]

Originally Posted by TheeBadOne

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1266863

Oh my...

[tortoise]

Originally Posted by RussP

Oh my...

There are a staggering number of people working in law enforcement today who hate cops.

[BlackPaladin]

OP, NO friggin way are you in LE. If you spewed this crap to ANY agency YOU would be crucified by your own guys. Not to mention you are a **ssy, with too much time to research your agenda. What the heck, get a ticket once and feel you were screwed over?

As for the link to the post regarding the 84yr old guy that got into the scuffle, see above comment, second sentance.

OP, you are a TROLL, get out.

[Dragoon44]

Radly Balko is a died in the wool POS cop hater.

And NOTHING that jerkoff has to say is worth discussing.

[actionshooter10]

Originally Posted by JSandi

You know... I think the owners here have the name of this particular form all wrong.

It should be changed to "Cop Worship" instead of "Cop Talk"...

Cuz its clear that all any of you guys want to hear is praise, worship and positive reinforcement from your peers. And when someone, anyone comes here and does not tow the party lien they are immediately case aside as a heretic or troll.

At least you're entertaining.

I've yet to see a post from you that's pro-LE.

You constantly post articles or links that are critical (at the least) of LE.

The only reason I have trouble thinking of you as LEO is that you rush to judgement too quickly. I can cite examples of you reading an article and taking a stance without having all the facts.

If you've been in LE for ANY amount of time, you know how often the press gets it right.

[JSandi]

Originally Posted by 4949shooter

Answer the question JSandi.

What's your beef? What are you trying to prove here?

Answer the question.

For the 3rd time, "I have no beef"... I simply posted an article for discussion and the peanut gallery freaked out...

What part of this passes your understand?

[4949shooter]

Because your actions prove otherwise.

Now answer the question please.

[JSandi]

Originally Posted by actionshooter10

The only reason I have trouble thinking of you as LEO is that you rush to judgement too quickly.

Well, I can understand that looking upon my posting history, but I assure you my "rush to judgement" a you call it, is based upon my experience.

[JSandi]

Originally Posted by 4949shooter

Because your actions prove otherwise.

Now answer the question please.

Sorry there is no reaching, nor helping you.

You've made up your mind, which is fine... and nothing I could say or do will change that.

Just like a good number of the officers I work with. Once they have it set in their mind that Joe Average is in the wrong nothing will change their minds.

Then they get all pissed once the shift sergeant or watch commander starts questioning their PC and report or the solicitor tosses the case.

[4949shooter]

I might be a little more open minded than you think. Why do you think I am asking, rather than trashing you outright?

What is your motivation for posting this kind of propaganda, and yes, your posting history in general?

[Patchman]

At this point in time jsandi can only continue to (1) insist he's LE, and (2) claim that "I have no beef... I simply posted an article for discussion and the peanut gallery freaked out..."

He's lying of course, but has to maintain this lie or else be publicly outed.

[JSandi]

Originally Posted by 4949shooter

I might be a little more open minded than you think. Why do you think I am asking, rather than trashing you outright?

What is your motivation for posting this kind of propaganda, and yes, your posting history in general?

I've just become more critical of the profession over the years. We claim to hold ourselves to a higher standard. But what I've seen personally is the exact opposite.

More and more we are promoting the incompetent and incapable. The quality of new-hires has hit rock bottom and started to dig. We allow the bad officers to somehow skate while we punish the good ones who just make an honest mistake. We act in a manor that's sometimes, many times appalling.

Then we react surprised when the public lashes out at us, a public poll finds that 47% of the people polled no longer trust us. Or someone with a large megaphone writes articles such as this one.

Ignoring this will not make it go away. Facts do not cease to exist because we simply chose to ignore them.

More and more we are seeing criminals acts by ourselves being blasted all over youtube, et al... which does nothing but hurt the honest cops trying to do the right thing. And the whole idea of the one bad apple theory no longer passes the smell test.

We've been blaming the "one bad apple" for decades now and the official bad apple count has far exceeded the acceptable bad apple to bushel basket ratio. The argument no longer holds water when you begin to look at the sheer number and the magnitude of news stories in print and TV media today of misconduct and crimes committed by officers on a daily basis. And these are just the incidents that are reported in the media. Incidents from departments that are large enough to warrant media scrutiny.

Now this could be two fold.

First, its that incidents like this have been going on all these years, in the same numbers and rates. It took the internet to shine light upon the issue.

Or we are really are seeing a rise in cases of misconduct.

Which is it, I don't know.

But it is my experience that people rarely change regardless of occupation. There has to be consequences for bad behavior and those consequences have to be firm and permanent in order for them to make an impact.

The public hates us because of us... they didn't wake up one morning and just chose to start hating us. This is been growing for years and its getting worse.

We can't turn into Mr. Rogers and still do our job, that I completely understand. But if we don't find a middle ground to walk there will be a real War on Cops and all of us will be taking fire daily. The public is upset over the economy, over heavy handed government laws and regulations, traffic cameras, code enforcement, aggressive traffic enforcement and a rise in traffic related fines. And regardless of what the case may be, they are upset at us for enforcing such laws and regs. And see us as the oppressors.

When Rome fell it was the soldiers/law enforcers who bore the brunt of the publics rage. Those the public saw most and those who's face the public associated most with an out of control government.

I see the same problems as all the other guys do. The public no longer respects us and therefore tend to be more dynamic when dealing with us.

Here we once saw a car chase a month more or less. Now its two or three a week. Foot chases, resistances with force. We have seen 2 patrol cars vandalized recently.

You get to a call and no one wants to even acknowledge your presence muchless answer any questions you ask. Or take part in anything close to an on-scene investigation. Despite the fact that they called us.

Its a true problem, but I contend that the catalyst wasn't too much fluoride in the drinking water. It was us, they way we have conducted ourselves in recent history and how the public has perceived our actions recently.

[TBO]

Another pizza delivery guy?

[Hack]

Originally Posted by TheeBadOne

Another pizza delivery guy?

Or, perhaps he is simply, "That guy". Maybe if he would verify his department employment or something.

[wprebeck]

Originally Posted by TheeBadOne

Another pizza delivery guy?

Wasn't that VPA or something like that?

And, if he IS a cop, he really hates his job and his coworkers.

[Mayhem like Me]

I have a different take I think he is really a cop, I have felt some of his sentiments I have seen and supervised a few bad cops that could not handle themselves and resorted to spray and stick before I ever would, but then I realized it was not their fault.

They have been allowed to thrive in our profession because of lax physical standards and poor training.

I started this job in 1983 with Guys that I would put up against anyone physically as far as holding their own when the chips were down.

I can look at our present state across the country today and say "not so much".

I am sure many/all of you here are in the "able to go " category and work at your craft to be effective at your job.

Problem is we do have "that guy and girl " working with us that got in this profession because they needed a job, not because they believed in what they were doing and that is very problematic, and why we see ourselves in the news painted in a bad light.

Do some stats say we are less likly to be attacked? maybe, but with the amount of training we have, the almost universal issue of protective vests, radio tracking ,GPS monitoring and advanced life support it does not surprise me we have less deaths, look at the number of soldiers that have been badly wonded making in back alive. We have become very adept at saving the heart lungs and brain...


I still see a local officer that made it out of a situation alive, but will never work again due to a brain injury after a shooting she made it out, but at what cost..

[Cochese]

Originally Posted by JSandi

I've just become more critical of the profession over the years. We claim to hold ourselves to a higher standard. But what I've seen personally is the exact opposite.

More and more we are promoting the incompetent and incapable. The quality of new-hires has hit rock bottom and started to dig. We allow the bad officers to somehow skate while we punish the good ones who just make an honest mistake. We act in a manor that's sometimes, many times appalling.

Then we react surprised when the public lashes out at us, a public poll finds that 47% of the people polled no longer trust us. Or someone with a large megaphone writes articles such as this one.

Ignoring this will not make it go away. Facts do not cease to exist because we simply chose to ignore them.

More and more we are seeing criminals acts by ourselves being blasted all over youtube, et al... which does nothing but hurt the honest cops trying to do the right thing. And the whole idea of the one bad apple theory no longer passes the smell test.

We've been blaming the "one bad apple" for decades now and the official bad apple count has far exceeded the acceptable bad apple to bushel basket ratio. The argument no longer holds water when you begin to look at the sheer number and the magnitude of news stories in print and TV media today of misconduct and crimes committed by officers on a daily basis. And these are just the incidents that are reported in the media. Incidents from departments that are large enough to warrant media scrutiny.

Now this could be two fold.

First, its that incidents like this have been going on all these years, in the same numbers and rates. It took the internet to shine light upon the issue.

Or we are really are seeing a rise in cases of misconduct.

Which is it, I don't know.

But it is my experience that people rarely change regardless of occupation. There has to be consequences for bad behavior and those consequences have to be firm and permanent in order for them to make an impact.

The public hates us because of us... they didn't wake up one morning and just chose to start hating us. This is been growing for years and its getting worse.

We can't turn into Mr. Rogers and still do our job, that I completely understand. But if we don't find a middle ground to walk there will be a real War on Cops and all of us will be taking fire daily. The public is upset over the economy, over heavy handed government laws and regulations, traffic cameras, code enforcement, aggressive traffic enforcement and a rise in traffic related fines. And regardless of what the case may be, they are upset at us for enforcing such laws and regs. And see us as the oppressors.

When Rome fell it was the soldiers/law enforcers who bore the brunt of the publics rage. Those the public saw most and those who's face the public associated most with an out of control government.

I see the same problems as all the other guys do. The public no longer respects us and therefore tend to be more dynamic when dealing with us.

Here we once saw a car chase a month more or less. Now its two or three a week. Foot chases, resistances with force. We have seen 2 patrol cars vandalized recently.

You get to a call and no one wants to even acknowledge your presence muchless answer any questions you ask. Or take part in anything close to an on-scene investigation. Despite the fact that they called us.

Its a true problem, but I contend that the catalyst wasn't too much fluoride in the drinking water. It was us, they way we have conducted ourselves in recent history and how the public has perceived our actions recently.

It is a shame it took you three pages here and umpteen threads to articulate your opinion, but I'm glad you figured out how to communicate.

See, what you have in this little enclave of Glock Talk is a bunch of like minded cops who all represent the good in our profession. We are all gun friendly and respectful of the Constitution. I have personally met and maintain friendships with a number of folks here and I can tell you.... target somewhere else.

We all understand fundamentally what you are trying to say. We recognize we are our own worst enemy, wit regard to public perception and reaction.

Difference here between US and YOU is that we are experienced enough to know we cannot change other people by posting inflammatory articles on a cop forum. We are also professional enough to know that our own personal actions and levels of professionalism work in our favor and benefit in our own personal AORs.

Your soapbox grandstanding is little more than a self depreciating introspective into what's probably more wrong with you and less wrong with the rest of us.

I think I speak for everyone here (with over 10,000 posts in Cop Talk, I'd like to think so) when I ask that you take all of these anti-LE threads and cram them up your ass.

We come here to relax and shoot the **** and trade information and ideas, not to whip ourselves like Arthur Dimmsdale in the closet with a bloody scourge, because of some percieved NEW public opinion about why cops suck.

Newsflash, there have always been anti-cop anti-establishment types out there. They just didn't have an internet powered soapbox to spread their stupidity.

Seriously, take this place for what it is and act like the cop you claim to be, or GTFO.

[wprebeck]

Cochese,

If I've never said it before - I love you....in a purely hetero way, mind you.