[MacG22]

Originally Posted by Markasaurus

I think you'd be better off just Fed-exing your guns to your destination!!!

I have personally found that flying with them is quicker, easier, CHEAPER, and more secure than mailing. However, others may have found otherwise.

[Sippo]

MacG, First I'd like to thank you for your contribution to the gun owning public for this thread. I only discovered the thread a couple of weeks ago, and since I plan to travel with my two Glocks to Front Sight this June (Lord willing), this topic has taken on a greater relevance to me.

I visited Continental Airlines guidance for traveling with firearms. Their write up seems to imply you must travel with a hard-shelled, outer luggage. I pasted the bullet statements below. What confuses me is the way they seem to refer to "hard-sided luggage" twice in separate bullet statements as if in the first they're referring to the actual pistol container (the ones you describ as being locked with pad locks) and in the second bullet they are referring to the outer luggage we'd lock with a TSA lock. How'd you interpret this:

**The firearm must be packaged in a hard-sided container capable of being locked. The container must be locked and the key or combination must remain in the customer's possession. If a hard-sided container is needed, see the container section of this site.
**Handguns must be packed in hard-side lockable luggage. Baggage containing handguns must be locked at the time of acceptance by Continental Airlines and the key or combination retained in the passenger's custody.

http://www.continental.com/web/en-US...ge/sports.aspx

What's your read? Do you have personal experience with thsi carrier? Do you think soft-sided luggage is exceptable to this carrier the way it reads?

[MacG22]

Sippo, I believe they're just referring to the actual case the gun is in. I don't believe for a moment that they'd force you to have hard sided luggage all in all. I *think* I've flown on Continental with no issues. However, I have a friend who flies continental all the time and has never had an issue.

However, hard sided luggage, if you can afford it, is a good thing to have anyway. Certainly don't be discouraged from buying it if you have the opportunity.

[swinokur]

Mac, several years ago Consumer Reports tested different kinds and brands of luggage even using a huge tumbler to simulate typical abuse a piece of luggage would receive during travel.

Guess which one fared the worst? The hard sided luggage. Apparently the hard side protects your clothing but if dropped or manhandled, it failed but the softsided luggage did not. Guess the soft side plus your clothing acted as a shock absorber.

When I stand at the carousel I don't see much hard sided luggage any more I think the advances in nylon and other fabrics have pushed soft sided sales because of their durability and shock resistance.

That's my observation anyway.

[MacG22]

Originally Posted by swinokur

Mac, several years ago Consumer Reports tested different kinds and brands of luggage even using a huge tumbler to simulate typical abuse a piece of luggage would receive during travel.

Guess which one fared the worse? The hard sided luggage. Apparently the hard side protects your clothing but if dropped or manhandled, it failed but the sof tsided luggage did not. Guess the soft side plus your clothing acted as a shock absorber.

When I stand at the carousel I don't see much hard sided luggage any more I think the advances in nylon and other fabrics have pushed soft sided sales because of their durability and shock resistance.

That's my observation anyway.

I'd agree on the consumer grade stuff. The kind you just find in shops.

Two MAJOR exceptions, though. I have a Zero Halliburton hard sided luggage case that has been amazing for me. I can put a laptop and camera gear in it and it comes out fine, and I'd never do that otherwise. It's my favorite to fly with.

The other exception is that hard sided luggage made of some of the new composites, and especially those that latch closed, have been shown to take MUCH more abuse than soft sided luggage and are much more secure. However, you have to buy the good stuff and it's not cheap. But you can travel with gear or glass and be alright. Big articles all over the photography world on the debate. The downside is that space is less flexible and it's heavier. If you really pack it you'll almost always pay an overage fee. There are many research pieces done in it, though, mostly among travel sites and photographers.

You can break into any soft sided, zippered bag in seconds, it's undetectable, and all you need is a bic pen. I've shown friends this trick over and over and it always shocks them. I'm sure it's on youtube. (update: just googled it, watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5mvv...1C761&index=29 ). When I take gear or I want more security, I take a hard sided case. If it's just clothing and a firearm, then I take the soft case and use the locking system I detailed in the OP.

Definitely fervent debate on the topic, though.

[swinokur]

Zero Halliburton? I want to leave my kids an inheritance !

The zipper video was indeed scary. Makes locking your pistol case inside your suitcase even more of a priority.

Thanks for posting that. Guess every baggage handler in the world knows that too. Why bother with a TSA lock? Between them cutting them off and the video I'll just not bother. I had stopped anyway. TSA's boltcutter budget exceeded my TSA lock budget anyway.

Good stuff though, Thanks

[kensteele]

I know there is confusion on where the tag is placed because I've had it done both ways as well. IMO, the tag goes outside the hardcase for the gun, not inside with the gun. Maybe they can see the tag with the xray no matter where it is located?

But I'm not going to take the risk of missing a flight or being called out for improper baggage due to the TSA and being told incorrectly. When I show up at the airport, I ALREADY have a filled out tag both inside the hardcase with the handgun and outside the hardcase near the gun case. These are old tags with my name/address and today's date but without the endoursement. Then I fill out a third tag at the counter and place it wherever they like but they never ask me to remove the old tags and I'm covered.

Keep your old tags and use them as long as you have declared your firearms unloaded today. But always use them in conjunction with new tags.

[swinokur]

Ken, excellent idea. This thread is chock with great travel nuggets.

[MacG22]

Originally Posted by swinokur

Zero Halliburton? I want to leave my kids an inheritance !

E-B-A-Y. You may have to do a little work on your own to restore, but I have 4 cases from them--highest quality stuff-- and I've never paid more than $150 for one them.

When I travel with a lot of money in gear and equipment, I don't really have an option. But thanks to trolling ebay over the years, I have a good outlay of briefcases and suitcases and gear cases and I'm not out much for it, and certainly nothing compared to the replacement cost of what's inside.

[Sippo]

Originally Posted by MacG22

Sippo, I believe they're just referring to the actual case the gun is in. I don't believe for a moment that they'd force you to have hard sided luggage all in all. I *think* I've flown on Continental with no issues. However, I have a friend who flies continental all the time and has never had an issue.

However, hard sided luggage, if you can afford it, is a good thing to have anyway. Certainly don't be discouraged from buying it if you have the opportunity.

Brings on a follow up question... If you use hard-sided luggage, to what do you cable-lock your pistol container? Is there some sort of metal spine similar to that you describe with soft luggage?

[MacG22]

Originally Posted by Sippo

Brings on a follow up question... If you use hard-sided luggage, to what do you cable-lock your pistol container? Is there some sort of metal spine similar to that you describe with soft luggage?

There are two things I've done. Others may have a better answer. The second on the list below is the most practical and what I recommend. The first is something I've been playing around with:

1. Lock the whole dang case:

If the hard sided luggage Latches closed, as mine does, then you just add a hasp and padlock it. You don't put the gun it's own case, you make the WHOLE SUITCASE the gun case, so you can use your own lock and TSA cannot have a key.

Think of it like if you go hunting and have a nice rifle case, and you put a change of clothes in it.

At first I thought I'd get the book thrown at me trying this. But I followed it to the letter of the law and haven't had any issues so far other than some damage to one of the cases where it looked like they tried to pry it open. But a little Flitz on the spot and it came right out.

2. Mount a loop or hasp into the inside side panel of the hard sided luggage:

If it's thin, the screws will poke out a bit. I just filled a little cap with locktite and put it on the outside, over the screw. Blends in with all the other bumpers and zippers and etc.

It's by far the easiest way to do it, and was a 10 minute and $10 sort of fix, but well worth it.

However, it's not as fun as experimenting with option number one above.

[Sippo]

Originally Posted by MacG22

There are two things I've done. Others may have a better answer. The second on the list below is the most practical and what I recommend. The first is something I've been playing around with:

1. Lock the whole dang case:

If the hard sided luggage Latches closed, as mine does, then you just add a hasp and padlock it. You don't put the gun it's own case, you make the WHOLE SUITCASE the gun case, so you can use your own lock and TSA cannot have a key.

Think of it like if you go hunting and have a nice rifle case, and you put a change of clothes in it.

At first I thought I'd get the book thrown at me trying this. But I followed it to the letter of the law and haven't had any issues so far other than some damage to one of the cases where it looked like they tried to pry it open. But a little Flitz on the spot and it came right out.

2. Mount a loop or hasp into the inside side panel of the hard sided luggage:

If it's thin, the screws will poke out a bit. I just filled a little cap with locktite and put it on the outside, over the screw. Blends in with all the other bumpers and zippers and etc.

It's by far the easiest way to do it, and was a 10 minute and $10 sort of fix, but well worth it.

However, it's not as fun as experimenting with option number one above.

Making your whole luggage bag your pistol container may raise so issues if the ticket agent insists on hanging the red firearm tag outside the "pistol container" instead of inside the "pistol container". It would appear such an agent would end up tagging the outside of your luggage as a gun bag.

[swinokur]

Federal law prohibits any tag on the outside of luggage that would indicate it contains a firearm

US Code Title 18 section 922

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or
cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for
transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to
persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers,
licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other
container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without
written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is
being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or
legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard
any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in
interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or
ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or
operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the
trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No
common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag,
or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package,
luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other
container contains a firearm.
(f)(1) It shall be unlawful for any common or contract carrier to
transport or deliver in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm
or ammunition with knowledge or reasonable cause to believe that
the shipment, transportation, or receipt thereof would be in
violation of the provisions of this chapter.

[Bill Lumberg]

Stock glock case, stock glock cable lock.

Originally Posted by Sippo

Brings on a follow up question... If you use hard-sided luggage, to what do you cable-lock your pistol container? Is there some sort of metal spine similar to that you describe with soft luggage?

[MacG22]

Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg

Stock glock case, stock glock cable lock.

Bill, I believe he was asking about, in a hard sided luggage back (with no spine to secure the cable to), where can you secure the gun so that it cannot be easily taken out.

[Sippo]

Originally Posted by MacG22

Bill, I believe he was asking about, in a hard sided luggage back (with no spine to secure the cable to), where can you secure the gun so that it cannot be easily taken out.

That's correct, Mac

[ChiefWPD]

Mac:

Great and informative thread. When I travel with a handgun (if I'm traveling around the USA I WILL have a handgun with me) I use a hard sided suitecase which I modified by installing (bolting) an "eye bolt" purchased at a hardware store. The inside of the "eye" is, naturally, inside the suitcase body. The little bit of threaded shank that sticks outside the body of the case I put a plastic cover on (ACE Hardware had all the stuff I needed for this). I had a plastic coated cable permanently attached to to the eye of the bolt. There is another loop around the other end of the plastic cable, which I attach, via the same lock used to secure my Pelican case which contains the handgun.

Could you steal my little handgun case from my luggage? Sure. But you'll need to have a pretty heavy bolt cutter or cable cutter in your back pocket in order to do so.

To make everyone's life simpler I'll get the case out of the basement and photo the set-up for this thread.

[MacG22]

Originally Posted by ChiefWPD

Mac:

Great and informative thread. When I travel with a handgun (if I'm traveling around the USA I WILL have a handgun with me) I use a hard sided suitecase which I modified by installing (bolting) an "eye bolt" purchased at a hardware store. The inside of the "eye" is, naturally, inside the suitcase body. The little bit of threaded shank that sticks outside the body of the case I put a plastic cover on (ACE Hardware had all the stuff I needed for this). I had a plastic coated cable permanently attached to to the eye of the bolt. There is another loop around the other end of the plastic cable, which I attach, via the same lock used to secure my Pelican case which contains the handgun.

Could you steal my little handgun case from my luggage? Sure. But you'll need to have a pretty heavy bolt cutter or cable cutter in your back pocket in order to do so.

To make everyone's life simpler I'll get the case out of the basement and photo the set-up for this thread.

That would be great. My camera is out of commission for a bit.

[Sippo]

I've visited several websites and made some interesting observations.... Some had pictures of hard-sided pistol cases locked with TSA locks (one had two locks). They even provided a link from the pistol case page to add it to your shopping cart to go with your pistol case!

[ChiefWPD]

Mac:

Here is the set-up I promised to photo for you:


Eye-Bolt was placed "eye" inside a piece of hardsided luggage. Plastic coated cable was attached through the eye.


This is the outside of the bag. I epoxied the nut to the threaded portion of the eye-bolt. The white piece of soft plastic covers the remaining threaded portion nicely. All this stuff came from a local ACE Hardware store. Nothing exotic here. Do note the two washers I used, one on either side of the shaft of the eye-bolt (one washer inside the hard sided luggage, the other placed on the outside).


This is the other end of the plastic coated cable. As you can see I fasten the cable using the same hasp lock I use to secure my Pelican hard sided case. Note the weapon card. Put there the last time I flew via JetBlue. Yeah, I know the regs. Go figure.

Will this absolutely prevent me from losing a handgun when I fly? Nope. But it will make it a heck of a lot more difficult for some mutt to simply just take my handgun case from my luggage.

[MacG22]

Wow. Great pics. that's similar to what I did in my haliburton case only I bolted a hasp and used locktite instead of epoxy. To be frank, yours looks stronger. Thanks for posting.

[Sippo]

Originally Posted by MacG22

Wow. Great pics. that's similar to what I did in my haliburton case only I bolted a hasp and used locktite instead of epoxy. To be frank, yours looks stronger. Thanks for posting.

Mac, Isn't your cable a half-inch cable? You're hasp must be a lot larger.

[MacG22]

Yeah, I can't really tell scale on here. But I use a thinner cable when I use the hard case and bolt. However, the hasp is still a bit bigger than a standard eye, though I like that design. By "stronger" I mean how his looks like it was anchored.

I don't use the hard case as much as I could, though. I'd say 75% of my travel is with the exact setup in the original pictures.