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Old 12-28-2010, 16:07   #51
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It worked for me a few years ago. A guy was trying to break into a apt i was living in. I saw him from the window and racked the slide. he ran so fast he dropped his crow bar.
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Old 12-28-2010, 16:30   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aippi View Post
Many guys on these blogs think of HD as the final scene in "Scareface". They watch to many movies.

Most every time if someone breaks into your home it is because they think no body is there. When they realize that someone is, they get out of there because the messed up.

Yes, there are occupied home invasions that you hear about on the news and you hear about them because they are so rare. And yes, a single woman living alone is at a greater risk for this. However, most of these occupied invasion involve drugs or large amounts of cash. This just does not affect most all of us and thinking a group of armed thugs are coming to your house is unrealistic.

If you hear a sound and think someone is out there, call out " I am Armed and on the phone with the police" then rack that pump. If someone was there you will hear a door slam or window break as they dive out it.

Thinking you can just sneak up on someone and shoot them for being in your home is wrong headed. There are ways for a person to end up there and not be intending you harm. If you are that afraid to live alone then move back in with your parents so they can protect you.
Europe has more "hot" burglaries than the US by a substantial margin. I remember reading an article about it and they attributed it to gun ownership.

"Hot" referring to the owner being in the structure at the time
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Old 12-28-2010, 17:27   #53
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Originally Posted by PeaceKeeper View Post
This is a true event that took place back in 1984:

I just moved to Atlanta and was living in an apartment, I was working days and sometimes I would come home and find that the maintenance guy had come into my apartment to 'fix' something. I would call the office to complain and they would tell me they had a key to every apartment and they could come in anytime to check on problems with the water or whatever.

Then my shift changed and I started sleeping in the morning from about 8am to 3pm. I had one of those loft style units where the bedroom overlooked the living room and front door. One morning about 10am I heard a knock on the door followed by "maintenance", I rolled out of my bed, grabbed my 870, took aim at the front door and waited. A couple of minutes later the door opened and the guy strolled in, I shouted "What the hell are you doing in my apartment". He looked up and said "I am here to check your water heater". I told him the water heater was located outside the unit and to keep out of my apartment unless I called about a problem.

He never heard me rack the gun, it already had a chambered round, but he got the point. I moved out about a month later and bought a house.
This is a very interesting story...but I'm not quite sure I get the point.
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Old 12-28-2010, 17:29   #54
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Originally Posted by Big_Grumpy View Post
I rack the slide to chamber a round because I prefer to keep my shotgun stored unchambered. I don't give a rat's if someone hears it and runs, or hears it and tries to pinpoint me. The point is my weapon is loaded and ready.
Ditto - That rack is going to happen as the muzzle is heading to the doorway...evrything else happens AFTER that.

I agree - it ISN'T being racked as a warning. That is incidental.
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Old 12-28-2010, 17:37   #55
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Originally Posted by bug View Post
It has to do that 5 % I mentioned they are the one that could be just high as a kite and not understand what that sound was,
Irrelevent. As I mentioned (for me at least) the rack is incidental. It's a bonus for you if you hear it and leave. If not it doesn't matter. The weapon is hot, aimed and ready.

Quote:
or it could be a person who knows you have some money,guns or some other thing that they want and don't give a crap how they get it.
In which case there will be a shootout. And it will commence fairly quickly with me having most of the advantage. Good luck!

Quote:
Those kind of people may know about guns,tactics and things that may give you a suprise you don't need.
At which point you are dead. Silent or not. They know you are there, they are armed and ready, they have weapons modified to full auto, armor, NV, and friends covering.


My thought on these kind of things is simple.

Quote:
Assume the worst pray for the best.
My plan assumes 3 or 4 guys looking to do harm
now there is a 99.9% chance that will never happen I know that.
If you want to play the odds that is you choice.
That's why I love America lots of choice.
Again - there is blindly playing the odds, and making an informed decision with contingencies in place.
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Old 12-28-2010, 17:41   #56
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Originally Posted by Dogue View Post
I'm of the belief that I don't give away any advantage I have and you're in my home illegally. There will be no slide rack, shotgun rack, or homeowner asking you to leave. There will likely be dogs barking and gunfire.
And while I generally agree - and that is your choice...Fortunately for you you live in FL. Other states are not as forgiving.

I just think there are a lot of trigger happy fools out there who are either just looking for the opportunity to "off some scum" who are much more likely to get shot or shoot an innocent person or shoot a bad guy and end up in jail anyway.

The posts are often disturbing.
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Old 12-28-2010, 18:36   #57
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Originally Posted by Aceman View Post
Irrelevent. As I mentioned (for me at least) the rack is incidental. It's a bonus for you if you hear it and leave. If not it doesn't matter. The weapon is hot, aimed and ready.


In which case there will be a shootout. And it will commence fairly quickly with me having most of the advantage. Good luck!


At which point you are dead. Silent or not. They know you are there, they are armed and ready, they have weapons modified to full auto, armor, NV, and friends covering.


My thought on these kind of things is simple.


Again - there is blindly playing the odds, and making an informed decision with contingencies in place.
There seems to no middle man here.

Just because they may be knowledgeable about guns/tactics does not make them SPEC OPS so your right if seal team 6 decides to invade your home your toast!

But what if this happens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw-0n...eature=related
This kind of crap is happening more and will most likely get worse in the future

Look what I said is not Irrelevant I encourage people to do what works for them.
If I had a shotgun for the house i would have one in the chamber and the tube full. YMMV
it would also be a semi auto. maybe A saiga with a 20rd drum, but as it is I live in the sticks so i keep a rifle handy.

I want them to leave so I will verbalize that to them if I think it will work.
If they don't then obviously they have bad intension's, In that case Its a GUN fight not a fair Fight.

saying that me or anyone else on this board is trigger Happy because I feel my tactics will work better for me than yours is silly.

I have done everything in my power to avoid such contact. ie: I moved to a nice community we have good police even though they are spread out.
the people around me I can trust. and so on.
If your plan involves a 8 shot rem with an empty chamber with a hand gun as back up, more power to you.

To me this is the same argument as those who carry there CCW with a empty chamber! why?? If something goes south it may happen so fast you wont know what hit you.

I pray that you or I never have to get into a gun fight! or hurt any one like that.
I have had enough guns pointed at me to know I don't like it, and i would like it much more if they would just go away.

But life does not go how you want it too i just does what it wants.
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Last edited by bug; 12-28-2010 at 18:38..
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Old 12-28-2010, 20:06   #58
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I personally know of a case where racking the slide of a shotgun (and it was empty actually) got to trespassers to freeze in their steps, and then after the owner said a few choice words, they turned around and left.

All this was in the darkness so the intruders didn't see the gun itself.

Does that mean it will work 100 percent of the time? No. Does it work though often? I bet it does.

Just as seeing five cops level guns at you tend to get your attention, so does the racking of a shotgun.

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Old 12-28-2010, 20:35   #59
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Wow. Look at all this childlike bickering.

Here's a post from a small woman's (my) perspective.

I moved into a fairly craphole apartment this summer. I knew there was a little suspicious action going on, but I figured it was just the stupid sort of stuff like pot dealing and a party or two. The landlord assured me that it was a very quiet place and that everyone there was clean and decent and that I wouldn't be bothered in the least.

The first mistake I made was to simply trust the word of my partner in crime (I stayed in the place for the summer, so when he came back for school, he'd have a sure cheap place to live. I didn't even look at the place before signing (knew the landlord sorta, had also viewed apartments in the same building etc.).

Second mistake was not just calling the whole thing off when my gut instinct said the place was bad.

On the second day of being there I got a frantic knock on the door at about 9:45pm. I wasn't expecting anyone, so I just yelled through the paper thin door, "WHO IS IT??"

"It's Ramiro!!"

I don't know any Ramiros.

"Ah...What do you want?"

"I am lookin' for Jose."

I don't know anybody by that name either, and it's for sure not the guy who used to live there, since I learned that his name was Mike.

"No one's here. I just moved in."

"oh...ok"

I started going back to unpacking and cleaning my Glock, but before I'd even taken two steps, there was more pounding on the door. I was getting kinda frustrated and a little nervous, because a normal person would've just left.

"Who is it!?!"

"Ramiro again."

"What do you want!?"

"Can I come in??"

Can I come in?? This had the effect of making the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I went immediately to my bedroom, and picked up my 870, and began loading it as quickly as I could. As I was doing this, the Mr. Ramiro jiggled the door handle.

In reply, while I frantically looked around for my phone, I yelled:

"NO! Go away!!"

"It's okay B----, I just want to look around."

Look around?! Really!?! I didn't really think that was what he wanted, and I still couldn't find where I'd left my cellphone. I was also thinking of just how weak and thin the door was. I could've easily kicked through it myself, and the latch was a joke (not even a deadbolt lock). The guy finally started trying the door pretty forcefully.

I put a shell in the chamber and pointed my shotgun at the door, which I figured was going to get yanked open at any second.

All I heard was "Oh----sorry!" and the sound of something heavy crashing down the stairs. (I later had a really long giggle over the falling down the stairs bit after the adrenaline had worn off).

I reported the event. From my perspective, very very few people that are about to cause trouble will listen to the angry shouts of a small woman. This doesn't mean that you should EVER trust that telltale sound of a pump action to scare garbage people away, but that noise seems to speak a lot louder than I do.

Don't trust it to work, even if it does most of the time.
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Last edited by LilWolfess; 12-28-2010 at 20:37.. Reason: Misspelled some stuff, and had to point out the stairs bit since it was pretty funny afterwards.
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Old 12-28-2010, 22:08   #60
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Originally Posted by LilWolfess View Post

I started going back to unpacking and cleaning my Glock....[/B]
Ummm.............. huh?
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Old 12-28-2010, 22:42   #61
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I am of the mind that if a bad guy is willing to enter a occupied dwelling, he is probably mentally willing and prepared to deal with resistance. The old saying about the sound of a racking shotgun is just that, an old saying. I put it into the catagory with "its hot enough to fry an egg or "if you cant find em- grind em.
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Old 12-28-2010, 22:44   #62
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Originally Posted by E-Money View Post
Ummm.............. huh?
I had started cleaning my Glock, and then had to do some unpacking to find some of my cleaning supplies (q-tips).
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Old 12-28-2010, 22:57   #63
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Racking insights fear BS:

God Bless the O.P. this is utter wives tale nonsense. It is just as effective as making a Tuff guy face and spouting some tuff talk! Just as good a chance of digging your hole deeper. It is not reasonable thinking; to buy an SD weapon with no absolute mindset to use it when ya point it at something it should be something you intend to shoot. Period.
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Old 12-28-2010, 23:49   #64
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Originally Posted by babarracing View Post
God Bless the O.P. this is utter wives tale nonsense. It is just as effective as making a Tuff guy face and spouting some tuff talk! Just as good a chance of digging your hole deeper. It is not reasonable thinking; to buy an SD weapon with no absolute mindset to use it when ya point it at something it should be something you intend to shoot. Period.
If this is a wives' tale, why did the guy run away from my door instead of forcing it open?

Not to mention, why did he run away without taking care to watch his step on the stairwell?

I agree with you in the sense that you shouldn't operate the pump on a shotgun just for the sake of trying to make a person scared enough to run away because of that "sound." But to say that the sound has no effect is just as foolish. If that sound showed no effect on anyone, and was a wives' tale just as you said, I would've probably ended up shooting the man trying to come in my home unwelcomed.
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Old 12-29-2010, 08:06   #65
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Do the police carry guns? Does everyone know that the police carry guns? Do police get shot at by bad guys even though they know the police carry guns and will shoot back?

A drunk idiot or some teenagers breaking in might come to their senses if the threat of being shot is presented, but a career criminal intent on doing you harm to get what he wants does not think like a rational person.
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:07   #66
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Originally Posted by bug View Post
It has to do that 5 % I mentioned they are the one that could be just high as a kite and not understand what that sound was, or it could be a person who knows you have some money,guns or some other thing that they want and don't give a crap how they get it.
Still can't see any problem. First, ignoring something that works 95% of the time in favor of the 5% is a bit questionable to start with, but even so if you do rack you haven't lost anything in the 5% situations.
Quote:
Those kind of people may know about guns,tactics and things that may give you a suprise you don't need.
Again, what would that be? The BG now knows you have a shotgun. He doesn't know anything beyond that. He doesn't know how many rounds you have, what other guns you have, your skill, or anything else.
My thought on these kind of things is simple.
Quote:
Assume the worst pray for the best.
My plan assumes 3 or 4 guys looking to do harm
now there is a 99.9% chance that will never happen I know that.
If you want to play the odds that is you choice.
That's why I love America lots of choice.
Yes, but some choices tend to increase the potential for problems while some tend to decrease the potential for problems. In other words, not all choices offer the same results. And again, racking the shotgun (or any gun) doesn't change the scenario at all from a defensive position. This really is one of those situations where the potential gain is quite large and the potential loss is virtually nonexistent.
Quote:
Bottom line if you come to my house and force your way in by violence.
You will leave, either on your own or in a bag.
That choice will be made by that person not me.
I would prefer you leave on your own.
And would yo think they are more likely to choose to leave if they know somebody has a firearm and is waitign for them, or if they do not?
Quote:
In your own house I think most people can move well enough to have the advantage over a intruder.
If they have at least given it some consideration.
You might be surprised how small that advantage is, especially depending on the tactics one chooses.

Quote:
But what if this happens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw-0n...eature=related
This kind of crap is happening more and will most likely get worse in the future
Again, how would pumping the shotgun have changed anything there?

Last edited by David Armstrong; 12-30-2010 at 09:31..
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:16   #67
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There are enough stories of a homeowner warning an intruder that they have a gun and still being forced to use it because that is not a threat to some of the brazen thieves that are out there now.
For every BG that will continue burglarizing a house with an awake, armed owner there are dozens who will NOT continue.
Quote:
I sincerely hope that non of us ever need to defend ourselves, our home, or our family. And for those that give out warnings I hope the thieves leave, and are not fast moving and aggressive. By the time you react to a sound it's very possible that the intruder is already somewhere in your home and possibly as close as your bedroom door. I've heard of several recent break-ins where they just kick in the door and move quickly to get the jump on anyone that may be inside.
Again, I fail to see how racking or not racking the pump on the gun changes any of that.
Quote:
I'm of the belief that I don't give away any advantage I have and you're in my home illegally. There will be no slide rack, shotgun rack, or homeowner asking you to leave. There will likely be dogs barking and gunfire.
And I think I would suggest that NOT warning the intruder (under most conditions) is giving away an advantage, as you are actually increasing the danger and the potential for loss to you and yours. Shooting someone rarely makes your life easier, it more often starts a rather expensive and time-consuming process that most folks who have actually been through it suggest everyone should avoid whenever possible.
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:19   #68
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Originally Posted by Glocker08 View Post
Why is it that racking the bolt on a pump is supposed to be so intimidating ? Doesn't a semi-auto make pretty much the same sound ?
Not really, but your point is still valid. All notifications, be they racking the slide on a handgun, pumping a shotgun, or just speaking loudly serve to accomplish the goal.
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:55   #69
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Originally Posted by David Armstrong View Post
Again, I fail to see how racking or not racking the pump on the gun changes any of that.
It's my belief that you've now added another step you have to take in order to defend yourself. Waking from a dead sleep you wake up, grab gun, chamber a round then aim...every second may count here. If by the time your eyes focus you now see someone standing just feet away from you do you want to rack your shotgun?

I would not carry a concealed weapon without a chambered round as I would not keep a home defense weapon in that state either.
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Old 12-29-2010, 11:11   #70
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Old 12-29-2010, 12:05   #71
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It's my belief that you've now added another step you have to take in order to defend yourself.
What added step? You pick up the gun and as you pick it up you rack it. Sure, it's an extra step, but EVERYTHING other than always carrying the gun around fully loaded with the safety off and the gun to your shoulder with your finger on the trigger adds another step.
Quote:
Waking from a dead sleep you wake up, grab gun, chamber a round then aim...every second may count here. If by the time your eyes focus you now see someone standing just feet away from you do you want to rack your shotgun?
If the person is so close you don't have time to run the action they are too close for you to use the gun in the first place. If you don't have time for that, the problem is not with having a round in the chamber or not.
Quote:
I would not carry a concealed weapon without a chambered round as I would not keep a home defense weapon in that state either.
About all I can say is that obviously some folks around here really need some good force-on-force training so they can develop a more realistic understanding of how things like this work.
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Old 12-29-2010, 13:18   #72
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Originally Posted by wtf0ver View Post
The sound of a shotgun racking is very intimidating. It's unmistakeable and might change the mind of your run of the mill smash and grab type burglars. The hardened criminals maybe not. if you don't have it loaded and if you're just relying on the sound of it racking to deter a burglar you're sadly mistaken.



I'm not proud to admit this; but here goes. Last week I went pheasant hunting with a couple friends. One of brought along a Remington 870.................unbeknownst to me. When the time came and we were preparing to enter the field, he racked the action on his 870 to chamber a round, and I honesty pooped myself. Not just a little nugget either..............big time load. Never before have I heard such a terrifying and intimidating sound.

That's said joking of course!!!! Yeah, if you're trying to be "SilentMan" and burglarize a house, and hear that sound.............yeah, the old sphincter might tighten up instantly or it might open fully!!
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Old 12-29-2010, 14:58   #73
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This is a very interesting story...but I'm not quite sure I get the point.
Sound or no sound, a shotgun is just a shotgun and how a person responds to the sight or sound of one chambering a round is how they react. If a person hears you rack a round into the chamber and flees he probably would have left if he had just seen you holding one. If he is going to engage you it would not matter if he heard you chamber a round or not. To think that the sound of chambering a round will stop a bad person is a bad thought.

I have only used a shotgun three times in my life where I actually was ready to fire if needed, each of those times ended without a shot fired.
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Old 12-29-2010, 17:32   #74
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But what if this happens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw-0n...eature=related
This kind of crap is happening more and will most likely get worse in the future
What - you mean what if I'm a drug dealer watching my closed circuit TV/Monitor and a rival drug gang shows up?

I'd say a bunch of them or me would have been dead. Likely them since I was watching it happen on video...and I probably had a loaded AK within reach.
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Old 12-30-2010, 20:19   #75
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What - you mean what if I'm a drug dealer watching my closed circuit TV/Monitor and a rival drug gang shows up?

I'd say a bunch of them or me would have been dead. Likely them since I was watching it happen on video...and I probably had a loaded AK within reach.
I did not know the back story behind video interesting.

I just typed in shootouts on youtube and came across that one for my example:
4 guys might know a bit about guns might have had a plan.
But by no means are they seal team 6.

Thats all

thanks for the info though good to know.
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