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Old 12-26-2010, 17:40   #26
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Old 12-26-2010, 17:45   #27
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Perfect!
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Old 12-26-2010, 18:01   #28
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Not to argue anyones point, I dont give **** what got them in my house or how good person they are. They deserve to be shot theres other means of makeing ends then robbing people at the dead of night.
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Old 12-26-2010, 18:19   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ennis View Post
Years back, a friend and his wife woke to an intruder in their apartment. They had a pump SG and a Garand under the bed. Each grabbed one. The intruder stuck his head into their bedroom. They racked the slide on the shotgun. The intruder calmly turned and spent the next 15 minutes rummaging through the house taking whatever he fancied, before leaving. The ammo was in another part of the house. But, the point is, racking of the shotgun, as well as seeing, two armed occupants, did absolutely nothing to discourage this guy.

I know this is where folks chime in with, "an empy gun is useless" or "He wouldn't have walked away from my house". What any of us will do at times like that is another question. This is only about the idea that racking noise from a shotgun is an effective deterrent. It wasn't in that one case.
Stories like that are why I qualified my statement with the words "rational person".

Obviously the intruder in this story wasn't very rational.
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Old 12-26-2010, 18:35   #30
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Many home invaders are out of their mind for one reason or another. The racking of a shotgun may not even register as a threat to them. I don't intend to give fair warning. Mine's already chambered.
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Old 12-26-2010, 18:38   #31
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The only thing they may hear in my house will be the soft click of the safety or maybe a slight creak in the floor.
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Old 12-26-2010, 18:53   #32
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Um, yeah. The whole "rack the slide on the shotgun and the BG will crap themselves" is as old as the dinosaurs. Gimme a break!
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Old 12-27-2010, 00:37   #33
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I am going to build an alarm system that instead of blowing a siren inside the house it will play an MP3 of a shotgun being racked. That should do it.



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Old 12-27-2010, 11:14   #34
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Old 12-27-2010, 11:35   #35
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What if they decide not to load their shotgun and just use the “deterrent” of racking the slide to scare away the violent criminal offender? What if that doesn’t work? The odds are it won’t work.
Gotta disagree. While I certainly don't like the idea of threatening with an empty firearm, to argue the odds are that it won't work seem contradicted by reality, where data suggests that over 90% of defensive gun uses do not involve shooting the gun. Most BGs, particularly burglars, don't want to get into a fight, they want to get the stuff and go away. So yes, there certainly is a deterrent factor to racking the slide. That probably should not be your final line of defense, but it should not be neglected as an element in the process.
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Old 12-27-2010, 11:46   #36
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Besides that, racking the shotgun would eject the shell in the chamber.
I agree - I wouldn't want to waste any advantage I have with a load of buck already in the chamber.
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Old 12-27-2010, 12:04   #37
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A simple act of asking your local LEO's how many break ins involve unocupied homes and unarmed perps will make any reasonable person understand this issue. Thinking your home is going to be attacked like the ending scene of the movie "Scar Face" is wrong headed.

A thief is there to steal not fight. He thought no one was home. Just making a sound will make them leave and yes, the sound of a pump shotgun racking and calling out that you are on the phone with the police, says get out. If you are so afraid and lacking in your ability with a weapon that you are going to shoot anyone in your home first then find out who they are and why they are there then you are considering a cowardly act that will affect you the rest of your life. How can you take the act of killing so casually and not see the affects it is going to bring on you, your future and maybe financial ruin. Train with the weapon, become proficient, plan your response and you will be able to deal with a situation and still protect yourself and your family.

I have complete confidence in my ablity and my weapon. I know I have the ability to be deadly if needed and to know when that is. I do not have start shooting at a precieved threat as I am able to deal with the situation and determine if deadly force is called for. I do not fear things that go bump in the night 'cause I can bump back harder if need be.

Stealing is not a death sentence. I have nothing that I can not replace in this home. I do not use deadly force to protect property. I have something else for that. It is called insurance. What I can not replace is my life and I will take a life if needed to protect my own. But to kill when I don't know my life is even in danger, no way. That is the act of a coward.

This type of thread always upsets me because some of the responses are so illresponsible and paint us as the gun nut killers that the anti gun people believe us to be. I also see the voice of reason in many of the responses and that is assureing.
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Old 12-27-2010, 12:10   #38
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aippi's post was great (as usual)

I WANT to announce that I am there, armed, and coming for you. I WANT you to take every opportunity to leave.

While everyone might not take the opportunity to leave - some or many will. Robbers want $$ and low hassle. And no one wants to be dead. As was said - "rational"

As for the "irrational" or stupid, or foolish or mean...now it's down to target ID and go/no go...

Better show up with your "A" game, because I'm showing up with the purpose of defending my family/children, a large amount of practice, a plan involving a backup shooter, the police on the phone, complete knowledge of my home, and a 100% tool for the job in top operating condition.

So, for everybody's sake, please exit the house now... And the go/no go; If you are standing there holding my TV in both hands - you are not a threat. You are however in a very bad situation...with a lot of opportunities to make very bad decisions with serious implications. So place the TV on the ground and lie down please...slowly.

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Old 12-27-2010, 18:11   #39
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Just keep watching those stupid movies people.
For the gentleman that said:
Quote:
I WANT to announce that I am there, armed, and coming for you.
This is a very bad decision to announce anything to the person who may kill You within a second or two.
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Old 12-27-2010, 19:35   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aippi View Post
A simple act of asking your local LEO's how many break ins involve unocupied homes and unarmed perps will make any reasonable person understand this issue. Thinking your home is going to be attacked like the ending scene of the movie "Scar Face" is wrong headed.

A thief is there to steal not fight. He thought no one was home. Just making a sound will make them leave and yes, the sound of a pump shotgun racking and calling out that you are on the phone with the police, says get out. If you are so afraid and lacking in your ability with a weapon that you are going to shoot anyone in your home first then find out who they are and why they are there then you are considering a cowardly act that will affect you the rest of your life. How can you take the act of killing so casually and not see the affects it is going to bring on you, your future and maybe financial ruin. Train with the weapon, become proficient, plan your response and you will be able to deal with a situation and still protect yourself and your family.

I have complete confidence in my ablity and my weapon. I know I have the ability to be deadly if needed and to know when that is. I do not have start shooting at a precieved threat as I am able to deal with the situation and determine if deadly force is called for. I do not fear things that go bump in the night 'cause I can bump back harder if need be.

Stealing is not a death sentence. I have nothing that I can not replace in this home. I do not use deadly force to protect property. I have something else for that. It is called insurance. What I can not replace is my life and I will take a life if needed to protect my own. But to kill when I don't know my life is even in danger, no way. That is the act of a coward.

This type of thread always upsets me because some of the responses are so illresponsible and paint us as the gun nut killers that the anti gun people believe us to be. I also see the voice of reason in many of the responses and that is assureing.
I understand your point, but I believe you are judging some/not all peoples
responses wrong.
I do not want to shoot anyone either, However I think that once a person has entered your home uninvited the rules have now changed!

You have no Idea what there intentions are, yes you are right 95% of those people thought the house was empty and will leave as fast as possible, but that other 5% well thats the ones we need to worry about.

I think racking the slide for the sake of intimidation is wrong headed.
If they know anything about shotguns they now have an idea that you may be intimidated and more than likely you only have a max of 8 shots before reload then maybe 4 on the side. Also pumps are known to short stroke when the person operating it is nervous or scarred.
It happens not often but it can.

They also know the general direction you are from that noise.
I think if you chose to say something to him/her/them(more than one person is more common all the time)
It should be that you called 911 and they are on your way and you should leave Now!
After you have gotten your kids/wife sig other in the room behind you!

And then if they decide to keep on coming you take the fight to them with as much violence of action and unfair fight as you can!!!
surprise is your friend.
you want to win a gun fight!!!!
Not make it fair chance time for the man who thought it was ok to come into your home and threaten you and yours.
If they leave great, if they don't well, I would show as little of my hand as possible to them! till its to late for them.
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Old 12-28-2010, 08:05   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestor View Post
Just keep watching those stupid movies people.
For the gentleman that said:

This is a very bad decision to announce anything to the person who may kill You within a second or two.
Just to clarify:

If there is a BG in my housed armed/dangerous within a second of shooting me I may skip the niceties. Of course we are going straight to boomsticks. I wish me luck because this guy obviously has the initiative.

That said, any announcements are coming from behind cover, with weapon either getting ready, or actually ready.

So - I have just moved from a situation where in all likelihood the person in the home is a robber and will choose to exit the house / or I can shoot fairly certain under the belief that they remain to do me harm, having been given the opportunity.

Or, I can scare the bejeebers out of someone already on the edge, and turn a non-encounter into a shooting situation when it was very avoidable.

Please explain the "bad decision" part of that. Yes - I give up "tactical advantage" of surprise - but this is not a SEAL team clearing my house. It is a robber in all likelihood.

I never said anything about just standing in the open, and chatting with the BG about how this is a bad idea and letting just take a second or two to shoot me instead of leave. If he is one to two seconds from a shot he is most likely in a Surefire hi-beam, with Mr. Mossberg pointed his way, safety already off (it was when I picked it up), finger on trigger. I may not even get to say anything before the trigger gets pulled. But if I can, I will. And if he turns and shoots at my voice he still won't hit me. But now I know what he intends and will perform accordingly.

Again - give me a specific scenario and I'll give a specific response.
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Old 12-28-2010, 08:22   #42
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This is a true event that took place back in 1984:

I just moved to Atlanta and was living in an apartment, I was working days and sometimes I would come home and find that the maintenance guy had come into my apartment to 'fix' something. I would call the office to complain and they would tell me they had a key to every apartment and they could come in anytime to check on problems with the water or whatever.

Then my shift changed and I started sleeping in the morning from about 8am to 3pm. I had one of those loft style units where the bedroom overlooked the living room and front door. One morning about 10am I heard a knock on the door followed by "maintenance", I rolled out of my bed, grabbed my 870, took aim at the front door and waited. A couple of minutes later the door opened and the guy strolled in, I shouted "What the hell are you doing in my apartment". He looked up and said "I am here to check your water heater". I told him the water heater was located outside the unit and to keep out of my apartment unless I called about a problem.

He never heard me rack the gun, it already had a chambered round, but he got the point. I moved out about a month later and bought a house.
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Old 12-28-2010, 09:27   #43
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I rack the slide to chamber a round because I prefer to keep my shotgun stored unchambered. I don't give a rat's if someone hears it and runs, or hears it and tries to pinpoint me. The point is my weapon is loaded and ready.

I'd pray that someone who unlawfully enters my house would hear it and run to avoid trouble, but I'm certainly not relying on it. I figure chances are if someone's stupid enough to break in, then they're stupid enough to stick around no matter what they hear.
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Old 12-28-2010, 10:52   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestor View Post
Just keep watching those stupid movies people.
For the gentleman that said:

This is a very bad decision to announce anything to the person who may kill You within a second or two.
Not really. The concept is that by making the announcement you significantly reduce the chance for conflict, thus reducing the likelihood that anybody will be trying to kill anybody else. If it doesn't work, and you go into that <10% area you really don't lose that much. So it becomes a cost-benefit issue. And if you are doing this in a position where the BG may kill you in a second or two you are already way behind the curve, a little noise or lack of it won't change things.

Last edited by David Armstrong; 12-28-2010 at 11:02..
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Old 12-28-2010, 11:00   #45
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Quote:
from bug:
I think racking the slide for the sake of intimidation is wrong headed.
If they know anything about shotguns they now have an idea that you may be intimidated and more than likely you only have a max of 8 shots before reload then maybe 4 on the side. Also pumps are known to short stroke when the person operating it is nervous or scarred.
It happens not often but it can.
I'm not seeing how any of that leads to the idea that racking the slide for intimidation is a problem. The BG still has exactly as much (or little) information as he already had, with the addition of he now knows that at the least yo have a pump shotgun with you. Why one would think that racking the pump indicates the shooter is intimidated seems quite contrary. LE, for example, rack their pumps when preparing for a fight. It is not because they are intimidated!
Quote:
They also know the general direction you are from that noise.
Unless you have really worked on the art of the ninja, they are going to know your general direction anyway. Few folks are as quiet as they think they are.
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Old 12-28-2010, 12:28   #46
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Having a loaded shotgun and not having to rack the action is not a bad thing. Blasting someone who has you laptop in their hands with their back turned to you might be a bad thing depending on your local laws.

Having a shotgun chamber empty (cruiser ready) and racking a round might scare someone away. It might give you position away but now you have a loaded shotgun.

I keep my long gun with loaded mags but empty chambers because that is what I do at work. The way I look at it if I need to use a gun in my house it will likely be a pistol since they are closest and easiest to get into action. The long guns are for when I have more time. I am not loosing much time by racking a round into the gun. Also in my area as long as they are unarmed and not advancing on me I have to give some sort of warning before blasting them. They will know where I am anyway when I tell them to get down on the ground or out of my house. Most burglars caught by homeowners in my area bolt just on the sight or sound of a homeowner. That's homeowners just being there when they weren't expecting them. If the racking of a shotgun does not scare them away it actually helps me if I have to use it later.

Imagine explaining it to the police this way, "I heard someone booting my door open. I went to my gun safe and pulled out my shotgun. Since the chamber was empty I chamber a round. I then heard/saw the guy walking/running towards my location. I told him to stop..."

Or this, "I heard someone booting my door open. I went to my safe and pulled out my gun. I then went to confront the suspect...."

Note how it gives you an extra layer of justification. How many cops or DAs have heard of crooks freaking out when they hear the sound of a shotgun racking? You think they might think, "Damn this guy confronted someone who pulled shotgun on them. They must have been crazy, foolish, or murderous."

The old saw of the racking of a shotgun comes from police having their shotguns in their car cruiser ready and jumping out at a gangfight, robbery in progress, etc and racking a round in and seeing people reacting favorably to the sound.

It does happen. Should you rely on it? No. Should you dismiss it? No.
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Old 12-28-2010, 12:33   #47
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I'm not seeing how any of that leads to the idea that racking the slide for intimidation is a problem. The BG still has exactly as much (or little) information as he already had, with the addition of he now knows that at the least yo have a pump shotgun with you. Why one would think that racking the pump indicates the shooter is intimidated seems quite contrary. LE, for example, rack their pumps when preparing for a fight. It is not because they are intimidated!

Unless you have really worked on the art of the ninja, they are going to know your general direction anyway. Few folks are as quiet as they think they are.
It has to do that 5 % I mentioned they are the one that could be just high as a kite and not understand what that sound was, or it could be a person who knows you have some money,guns or some other thing that they want and don't give a crap how they get it.

Those kind of people may know about guns,tactics and things that may give you a suprise you don't need.
My thought on these kind of things is simple.

Assume the worst pray for the best.
My plan assumes 3 or 4 guys looking to do harm
now there is a 99.9% chance that will never happen I know that.
If you want to play the odds that is you choice.
That's why I love America lots of choice.

Bottom line if you come to my house and force your way in by violence.
You will leave, either on your own or in a bag.
That choice will be made by that person not me.
I would prefer you leave on your own.

And I am a level 3 mall ninja so am so quiet I can't hear myself.

In your own house I think most people can move well enough to have the advantage over a intruder.
If they have at least given it some consideration.

if
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Old 12-28-2010, 14:07   #48
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There's no guarantee they will hear the sound of the shotgun. I think announcing that you are armed and that the police are on the way are as good a deterrent as anything. But you need to be prepared for the worst even if its likely that they would flee at that point. You just don't know what kind of criminal just came into your home.

I posted about this on my blog as well www.minutemanreview.com
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Old 12-28-2010, 14:14   #49
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There are enough stories of a homeowner warning an intruder that they have a gun and still being forced to use it because that is not a threat to some of the brazen thieves that are out there now. I sincerely hope that non of us ever need to defend ourselves, our home, or our family. And for those that give out warnings I hope the thieves leave, and are not fast moving and aggressive. By the time you react to a sound it's very possible that the intruder is already somewhere in your home and possibly as close as your bedroom door. I've heard of several recent break-ins where they just kick in the door and move quickly to get the jump on anyone that may be inside.

I'm of the belief that I don't give away any advantage I have and you're in my home illegally. There will be no slide rack, shotgun rack, or homeowner asking you to leave. There will likely be dogs barking and gunfire.
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Old 12-28-2010, 15:52   #50
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Why is it that racking the bolt on a pump is supposed to be so intimidating ? Doesn't a semi-auto make pretty much the same sound ?
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