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Old 12-04-2010, 00:24   #1
JLui83
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9mm Home Defense rounds in Condo complex

I understand the basics between hollow points and full metal jacket bullets. I also know that hollow points are used for home defense or carry rounds for its ability to expand and cause more damage to the "Threat".

I live in a Condo Complex and lets say someone breaks into my unit and I have to use my firearm as protection. I have a glock 19 gen 4, 9mm... I'm trying to debate on which hollow points to get. My question.. B/c I live in a Condo Complex... Are there any rounds that will do the job, but just incase i miss, will not go through walls? If so, which?

Thanks
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Old 12-04-2010, 00:59   #2
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Prefragmented rounds will provide the least chance of overpenetration, or penetration through walls. Glaser and Mag Safe brands have been around for quite some time. There may be others, but I have actually shot these two at wall mockups.

Neither will penetrate a typical wall board interior wall and then a stucco exterior. On a interior wall consisting of two pieces of wall board separated by the depth of a 2x4, the round broke apart, and would have caused minor if any injury to someone on the otherside, a few feet from the wall.

Pretty much any "solid" round whether cast lead, FMJ, JSP, JHP or JFP, will penetrate at least two exterior wall mockups, unless a frame member is struck. And, I gave up at six interior wall mockups.

Truthfully, a short barreled shotgun, loaded with smaller shot would work very well on an intruder, yet give the least undesireable over penetration.
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Old 12-04-2010, 01:19   #3
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Originally Posted by Jeepnik View Post
Truthfully, a short barreled shotgun, loaded with smaller shot would work very well on an intruder, yet give the least undesireable over penetration.
Bird shot maybe. Most buck will penetrate quite a bit, no?

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14_4.htm

Last edited by cowboy1964; 12-04-2010 at 01:19..
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:11   #4
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There are "frangible" rounds that will penetrate human flesh, but, will crumble on impact with a wall or a door. Do a search you will find which manufacturers make them.
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:19   #5
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Rock Salt !

Replacing the birdshot with rock salt might be the least lethal alternative !
Anybody ever do that, and test it on wallboard ?

Last edited by "Cold Dead Hands" !; 12-04-2010 at 10:20..
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:28   #6
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Rock Salt !

Replacing the birdshot with rock salt might be the least lethal alternative !
Anybody ever do that, and test it on wallboard ?
No, but I know someone who tseted it on "buttboard" , burns like the dickens. Will sure break a watermelon stealing habit!!
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:34   #7
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Bird shot maybe. Most buck will penetrate quite a bit, no?

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14_4.htm
Yes, buck will penetrate more but so will birdshot at close range before the shot starts to spread. When it's bunched up it acts like one big solid projectile.
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:51   #8
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Pick a good self defensive round and go with it. Gimicky ammo may give gimicky results if you ever have to use it to defend your life. If you have to use your pistol in self defense you want to stop the threat NOW! Any one of the good self defense ammo lines out there will give you that level of performance.

Your concerns are valid. Since some shot directions might put others at a higher risk, you will need to make an evaluation of your home. Take a walk through and think of which directions are good and which are bad for an overpenetrating round. Then you can develop a mental image of safe fire zones and plan tactics to take advantage of those zones. You know your layout better than any intruder will so use that to your advantage.

I hope you never have to put that plan into action.

Just a thought...

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Old 12-04-2010, 11:14   #9
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Bird shot maybe. Most buck will penetrate quite a bit, no?

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14_4.htm
Which is why I said smaller shot. Even a skeet or trap load would work at indoor distances.
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:31   #10
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Originally Posted by Edmo01 View Post
Pick a good self defensive round and go with it. Gimicky ammo may give gimicky results if you ever have to use it to defend your life. If you have to use your pistol in self defense you want to stop the threat NOW! Any one of the good self defense ammo lines out there will give you that level of performance.

Your concerns are valid. Since some shot directions might put others at a higher risk, you will need to make an evaluation of your home. Take a walk through and think of which directions are good and which are bad for an overpenetrating round. Then you can develop a mental image of safe fire zones and plan tactics to take advantage of those zones. You know your layout better than any intruder will so use that to your advantage.

I hope you never have to put that plan into action.

Just a thought...

Edmo
Edmo nailed it. Gimmicks are gimmicks. In a 9mm Glock, look for Speer Gold Dot in 124gr +P, and the always-elusive Winchester Ranger 127gr +P+. If you want some additional great advice, check out the Self Defense section of Go Ask The Experts here on GT. Mas has discusses 9mm JHP ammo several times in there, so check some of the older threads.
Also, if you have a maintenance crew at your condo, discreetly inquire about your interior dividing walls, and how theyre made. If theyre poured and rebarred concrete of any meaningful thickness, that wall will stop pretty much any reasonable SD round you can throw at them.

As for shotguns...
Birdshot is for birds, buckshot is for bad guys. A column of birdshot does not act as a single projectile like a slug, it acts like what it is - a column of very small, lightweight pellets. The column breaks up on impact, and very few - if any - pellets will make it through the sternum and rib cage to hit vital organs. Buckshot is a different story. #4 is a little iffy, IMO, in penetration. Mas recommends #1 buck, but it is harder to find. I prefer low recoil, buffered 00 with an 8 pellet payload. Tight patterns, good penetration against BG, and slightly less wall penetration. If you do your part, 00 WILL do the job. Bird shot might, but likely will not, and you may have just opened yourself to civil liability, depending on your jurisdiction.
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:42   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmo01 View Post
Pick a good self defensive round and go with it. Gimicky ammo may give gimicky results if you ever have to use it to defend your life. If you have to use your pistol in self defense you want to stop the threat NOW! Any one of the good self defense ammo lines out there will give you that level of performance.

Your concerns are valid. Since some shot directions might put others at a higher risk, you will need to make an evaluation of your home. Take a walk through and think of which directions are good and which are bad for an overpenetrating round. Then you can develop a mental image of safe fire zones and plan tactics to take advantage of those zones. You know your layout better than any intruder will so use that to your advantage.

I hope you never have to put that plan into action.

Just a thought...

Edmo
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodenPlank View Post
Edmo nailed it. Gimmicks are gimmicks. In a 9mm Glock, look for Speer Gold Dot in 124gr +P, and the always-elusive Winchester Ranger 127gr +P+. If you want some additional great advice, check out the Self Defense section of Go Ask The Experts here on GT. Mas has discusses 9mm JHP ammo several times in there, so check some of the older threads.
Also, if you have a maintenance crew at your condo, discreetly inquire about your interior dividing walls, and how theyre made. If theyre poured and rebarred concrete of any meaningful thickness, that wall will stop pretty much any reasonable SD round you can throw at them.

As for shotguns...
Birdshot is for birds, buckshot is for bad guys. A column of birdshot does not act as a single projectile like a slug, it acts like what it is - a column of very small, lightweight pellets. The column breaks up on impact, and very few - if any - pellets will make it through the sternum and rib cage to hit vital organs. Buckshot is a different story. #4 is a little iffy, IMO, in penetration. Mas recommends #1 buck, but it is harder to find. I prefer low recoil, buffered 00 with an 8 pellet payload. Tight patterns, good penetration against BG, and slightly less wall penetration. If you do your part, 00 WILL do the job. Bird shot might, but likely will not, and you may have just opened yourself to civil liability, depending on your jurisdiction.
These two guys answered you question perfectly.
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:46   #12
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No magic bullets that will stop a BG DRT, but not penetrate wallboard.

Like the post above suggests, get a good quality JHP (perhaps same brand as used by your local LEO), train to hit what you want, and you are good to go.
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:00   #13
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:03   #14
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No, but I know someone who tseted it on "buttboard" , burns like the dickens. Will sure break a watermelon stealing habit!!

It will also break a teenager's habit of stealing moonshine, or so I've been told.
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Old 12-04-2010, 14:46   #15
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Which is why I said smaller shot. Even a skeet or trap load would work at indoor distances.
Depends on the choke, distance & size of shot. Across a large room ro down a long hall, I would NOT expect even #6 birdshot to reach vitals of a BG wearing a heavy denim jacket. These were shot @ a mere 7steps from a riot choked 870. Note how open the pattern is at only 7 steps. The individual shot just doesn't have enough gas to penetrate to vitals.
Caliber Corner Caliber CornerCaliber Corner
You can see that none of the #6 shot penetrated the ribcage, yet the #4 buck smashed them & easily gets to vitals. That was 2 layers of denim covered beef ribs.
The OPs best choice is a light for caliber JHP. They penetrate less than other weights on all mat'ls. Why I choose #4 buck for inside my home. Regardless of choice, practice so you limit misses. If the BG is shooting back, his missed rounds pose just as much danger to innocents as yours. Stop the fight as quickly as possible, which means you must get to vitals on even the largest of attackers. Birdshot doesn't do it except at contact distances & the prefrag rounds are a compromise for sure, often failing on intermediate objects like a forearm, belt buckle, even a heavy zipper will get them to start coming apart. BTW, all prefrag rounds will penetrate drywall, but w/ less force on the back side.
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Last edited by fredj338; 12-04-2010 at 14:54..
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Old 12-04-2010, 16:43   #16
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A friend of mine lived in San Francisco and handguns are banned. He had a paintball gun and kept the balls in the freezer. When someone tried to break in he let him have it with the frozen paintballs. When the 911 dispatcher asked him what the intruder looked like he said black and blue and yellow.
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Old 12-04-2010, 17:50   #17
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A friend of mine lived in San Francisco and handguns are banned...
No they're not.
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Old 12-04-2010, 22:15   #18
JLui83
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Thanks everyone for their info and comments. I think I narrowed it down to 2 different types of JHP that I want to try out in my glock 19.

From my understanding lighter grain such as 115 will penetrate LESS than 124gr and up. This is correct right?

If that's true. I am going to purchase

9mm Speer LE Gold Dot 115gr +P+


and see how my Glock 19 Gen 4 likes them. For about $24/box I think these are pretty good.
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Old 12-04-2010, 23:23   #19
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No they're not.

I guess my friend was mistaken. Has handgun ownership ever been banned in SF? I know every time I turn around they are trying to ban ownership. I just accepted what he said as truth. I know they still have gun shows at the Cow Palace. They tried to ban that too. I figured that the good citizens would have to own a Trapper levergun like NYC.

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Old 12-05-2010, 01:32   #20
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...If that's true. I am going to purchase

9mm Speer LE Gold Dot 115gr +P+


and see how my Glock 19 Gen 4 likes them. For about $24/box I think these are pretty good.
Glocks love Speer ammo per my experiences and the hotter the better. I have shot these in my Gen 4 G19 and they shot fantastic. However, that was MY gun. Be warned, Speer +p+ are hotter than a ''hunerd'' dollar hooker!!
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