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Old 08-27-2012, 18:37   #81
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I have a coworker who insists on carrying his G19 with an empty chamber. He also unloads the magazine every time he gets out of his car to enter a store. Then he loads it when he gets back to his car. There is NO changing his mind on this. He refuses to consider carrying a chambered Glock.
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Old 08-27-2012, 18:43   #82
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Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
I have a coworker who insists on carrying his G19 with an empty chamber. He also unloads the magazine every time he gets out of his car to enter a store. Then he loads it when he gets back to his car. There is NO changing his mind on this. He refuses to consider carrying a chambered Glock.
So he removes his mag to make it condition 4, when he goes in public? I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but what's he gonna do, rack the slide in his holster and ND his leg? Offer to trade him that dangerous glock for a nice, safe hi-point, with a thumb safety. It's what a good friend would do.
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Old 08-27-2012, 18:46   #83
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Yea, this is an over-argued topic that pops up every week in one form or another.
In this case it was dead for a year before it came back alive.
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Old 08-27-2012, 19:32   #84
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You guys/gal haven't hammered me yet, so let me ask a question: what level of experience qualifies one for C1 carry? Put another way, should anyone with confidence to carry C1 be encouraged to do so, regardless of experience/training? I ask because the advice always given here is to carry with one in the chamber without a caveat that some level of competence is necessary.

I don't oppose C1 if the armed person is also a competent, stable, extremely cautious person. No one seems to take these qualifiers into consideration when cavalierly advising against carrying a "paperweight" or or a "brick". I'm not arguing with you guys, but I am lobbying for attaching some competence criteria to Condition 1 carry.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 08-27-2012 at 19:41..
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Old 08-27-2012, 19:41   #85
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wow this one has gone the same way as the other dozens of threads on the same subject...
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Old 08-27-2012, 19:48   #86
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I don't oppose C1 if the armed person is also a competent, stable, extremely cautious person. No one seems to take these qualifiers into consideration when cavalierly advising against carrying a "paperweight" or or a "brick". I'm not arguing with you guys, but I am lobbying for attaching some competence criteria to Condition 1 carry.
What people are saying here, is if you're not confident enough to carry your weapon in a way that's usable, perhaps you should consider alternative ways of self defense that you would be comfortable with. Pepper spray may be better for you. At least then you'll have a better chance against a threat who has taken you by surprise. You need 2 hands or alot of practice to rack your slide properly, so you don't cause a jam. What's to say the threat doesn't see that weapon, and take it from you before you can make it deployable? You run the risk of making yourself a danger to you, rather than defending yourself.

The decision of competency is upon the individual, and no one here can judge that for you. If you've already made the conscious decision to possess a firearm, and carry it, then absolutely you should be proficient in its use. That's more understood and implied than openly stated. If that's not something you're willing to do, and carry it in a state that's ready, then you should leave it home, and carry something else.

Think about it this way. Guy comes up and says, "Can I get some change for the bus, man?" You shine him on, and walk away, he sneaks up behind you and throws you down. Before you hit the ground, he's on top of you, why? Because he's effin crazy, and there's nut jobs all over. You need both of your hands to stop this dude from pummeling you, how are you going to draw your weapon, rack the slide, and stop that threat?
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Old 08-27-2012, 19:54   #87
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You guys/gal haven't hammered me yet, so let me ask a question: what level of experience qualifies one for C1 carry? Put another way, should anyone with confidence to carry C1 be encouraged to do so, regardless of experience/training? I ask because the advice always given here is to carry with one in the chamber without a caveat that some level of competence is necessary.

I don't oppose C1 if the armed person is also a competent, stable, extremely cautious person. No one seems to take these qualifiers into consideration when cavalierly advising against carrying a "paperweight" or or a "brick". I'm not arguing with you guys, but I am lobbying for attaching some competence criteria to Condition 1 carry.
The competence you seem to speak of is necessary to carry, period.

If you are not competent stable or cautious you should not carry in any "condition." If you follow the rules of gun safety, are competent, stable and cautious than one carry condition is not inherently less safe than the other.
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Old 08-27-2012, 19:59   #88
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What people are saying here, is if you're not confident enough to carry your weapon in a way that's usable, perhaps you should consider alternative ways of self defense that you would be comfortable with. Pepper spray may be better for you. At least then you'll have a better chance against a threat who has taken you by surprise. You need 2 hands or alot of practice to rack your slide properly, so you don't cause a jam. What's to say the threat doesn't see that weapon, and take it from you before you can make it deployable? You run the risk of making yourself a danger to you, rather than defending yourself.

The decision of competency is upon the individual, and no one here can judge that for you. If you've already made the conscious decision to possess a firearm, and carry it, then absolutely you should be proficient in its use. That's more understood and implied than openly stated. If that's not something you're willing to do, and carry it in a state that's ready, then you should leave it home, and carry something else.

Think about it this way. Guy comes up and says, "Can I get some change for the bus, man?" You shine him on, and walk away, he sneaks up behind you and throws you down. Before you hit the ground, he's on top of you, why? Because he's effin crazy, and there's nut jobs all over. You need both of your hands to stop this dude from pummeling you, how are you going to draw your weapon, rack the slide, and stop that threat?
Thanks for a civil response. Your opinion is well stated.

My regrets to the OP for getting off course.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 08-27-2012 at 20:03..
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Old 08-27-2012, 20:44   #89
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Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
I have a coworker who insists on carrying his G19 with an empty chamber. He also unloads the magazine every time he gets out of his car to enter a store. Then he loads it when he gets back to his car. There is NO changing his mind on this. He refuses to consider carrying a chambered Glock.
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Old 08-27-2012, 21:22   #90
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my face when someone tells me glocks are "unsafe" to carry chambered

Carry Issues
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Old 08-27-2012, 22:33   #91
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Am I being silly? Do other people carry Glocks in IWB holsters with chambered rounds? Is it just something one has to get used to? If anybody could advise me, I'd be grateful.
No, you're not. Not at all. The fact that you're thinking shows that you're, at least, trying to be a responsible gun owner and operator.

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Do other people carry Glocks in IWB holsters with chambered rounds? Is it just something one has to get used to? If anybody could advise me, I'd be grateful.
I'm not going to read through four pages of replies, but I'm sure you've already come to your conclusion on this one. What I always tell people, when they have this reservation, is to carry the gun, WITHOUT a round in the chamber. Fill up your magazine, put the gun in battery (pull the slide back and release it so you can dry-fire it), DON'T pull the trigger, and put the magazine in.

Now that everything is in place, carry the gun... to your heart's content. And, as you're carrying it, count how many times the trigger goes off inadvertently. And do this until you have enough confidence in your weapon to actually carry it with a round in the chamber. If you're responsible with the weapon and have a proper holster, it should NEVER discharge, and this process will show you that.

I'm not going to tell you to walk around like this for a week, a month, or a year... Do it until you're comfortable and you trust your gun. Then, and only then, carry with a round in the chamber.
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:13   #92
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Please read FAQ's....pain....much pain
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:48   #93
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I have been a revolver guy my whole life, and just switched to a Glock 19 after getting two days of excellent training and realizing I could shoot the Glock better (to say nothing of more copiously) than my old Detective Special. I have a CCW and am carrying the Glock in a Galco Stow-n-Go IWB holster.

Here's my situation: Carrying the pistol with a round in the chamber freaks me out. I worry that my flesh pushing against the soft holster will somehow depress that little trigger safety and nudge the trigger back. I find myself walking around with my hips thrust forward, flinching away from the gun. Actually, I only did that for about ten minutes before retreating to a men's room, unchambering the round, and putting the gun back in its holster with a full mag but empty chamber.

I could carry Israeli style, I suppose, and draw-and-rack if it comes to that, but I just saw a training video in which a woman carrying Israeli style would have been killed by a knife had the attack been real. I would like to carry at the ready, but doing so really gives me the heebie-jeebies. Am I being silly? Do other people carry Glocks in IWB holsters with chambered rounds? Is it just something one has to get used to? If anybody could advise me, I'd be grateful.
Why do I get the impression that you imagine your manhood to be on the line over whether or not you carry your Glock in either C-1, or C-3? So you watched a video about some woman who flubbed a, ‘Mossad draw’. I’ve watched dozens of videos of IDF members who can - and did - complete a Mossad draw, fire, and score multiple hits on the target in less time than it takes (I would imagine!) for a typical civilian Glockeroo to merely draw and, ‘clear leather’ with his C-1 Glock. It should be pointed out:

ANYTIME YOU ASK A QUESTION LIKE THIS ON GLOCK TALK YOU ARE BEGGING TO BE REPEATEDLY TOLD TO: GROW UP, GET REAL, OVERCOME YOUR FEARS, CARRY IN C-1, AND BE A REAL PISTOLERO.

All of which causes me to think that maybe, just maybe, you need to do a personal, ‘risk vs. benefits’ analysis. Personally, I’d be interested to know the following:

1. How likely are you to become involved in that rarest of events in most peoples’ lives - An instantaneous CQB ambush?

2. You’ve referred to a lifetime of experience with pistols. OK, how many close quarter ambushes have you actually been involved in? How about in just the last 5 years? Before a final choice is made I think you need to accurately grasp what the real probabilities, both, are or might be for YOU in your daily life.

3. Don’t be myopic about this. There’s a certain the risk to you, AND there’s, also, a certain risk to others too. Threads like this always assume that a holstered Glock with a covered trigger guard guarantees a safe weapon. Unfortunately very few respondents appreciate that there are numerous daily incidents - that can and will occur in your life - where this is simply not true.

I’m an older man. Before 1987 I heard of very few ND/AD events; and I have kept company with large groups of gunmen, virtually, all of my life. Since the introduction of Glock’s, so-called, ‘Safe Action’ trigger system into American society I have, literally, seen and heard about (Ready?) hundreds of nonintentional discharge events! So, the outstanding questions remain,

Is C-1 Glock carry something that you really need to do?

'Are the presumed benefits actually worth the risk?'

To those who like to repeat the trite Internet lingo: ‘If you haven’t got a round in the chamber then your pistol is only a brick!’ well, it needs to be remembered that: You CAN still get killed with a brick; and this has nothing to do with your manhood.

4. The mere fact that this question needs to be asked tells me something important: Anyone who is perplexed by a question like this really doesn’t understand the concept (and nuances) of CQB pistol gunfighting; and, perhaps unfortunately, this is something that you’re very unlikely to learn, correctly, on the Internet. Let me give you some of the factors that have influenced my own decision about how to properly carry my Glocks:

1. My family and friends. The question is simple: ‘Do I really NEED to routinely expose all those people within my immediate environment to C-1 carry?

2. Another question is, 'How likely am I to suddenly need to defend myself against an instantaneous close quarter ambush?' Here I determined that the risk is fairly high: Over the past 7 years my neighborhood has had one late night pistol assassination; (The victim was my next door neighbor.) and I’ve been involved in three armed confrontations:

One, late at night, after I caught a local meth dealer using our farm dumpster to get rid of his laboratory waste; another right outside my front door; (I think it might have been an intended, ‘payback’ from that meth dealer I caught.) and the final one was with two young armed robbers at a local gun store near my home. In none of these events were shots actually exchanged; but, this is only because the other guys suddenly changed their minds and were unwilling to finish what they had started. (Me and, ‘my brick’ have been known to have that effect on people!)

3. I’m an (uncertified) Glock armorer; and I’ve done a lot of work on Glock trigger mechanisms. I will NEVER forget my surprise the first time I discovered that a Glock’s trigger can be, ‘stacked’! With the introduction of Glock’s fourth generation pistols the factory has shown that they are well aware of this problem, too. This is the reason, ‘Why’ the height and angle of the trigger bar’s sear kick plate has been modified. (Don’t believe me? JR @ Lone Wolf Distributors has already commented about this increase in 4th gen. kick plate height in the Gateway Section of this website.)

Perhaps other pistoleros are comfortable calling their Glock triggers, ‘safe’ or, ‘foolproof’; but I am not. I’ve spent a lot of my life on firing lines; and I’m able to remember many people with what I will call, ‘lazy’ or, ‘spastic’ trigger fingers. I’ve watched people muff holster draws, too - Happily, this doesn’t occur very often; but it happens, nonetheless.

4. What have I found the real drawbacks with C-3 Glock carry to be? Well, it ain’t time! In practiced hands C-3 is - as I have already indicated - very fast! Faster, in fact, than most inexperienced or lightly skilled civilians (and a lot of, ‘experienced’ police officers) are able to do. Israeli carry is primarily disadvantaged by the usual need to use two hands on the draw. For those who might insist that a C-3 weapon is useless if you get one of your arms injured? I’ve got a hot news flash for ya: In ALL of the dash cam and convenience store videos I’ve watched, any gunman who gets hit in the arm or hand is, also, immediately out of the fight - Perhaps even more so than someone who’s taken one or two torso hits. (Think about it! You might see what I mean.)

5. Now, for the sake of fairness, I should answer the question, ‘Have I ever been disadvantaged by C-3 carry?’ An honest answer would be; ‘Yes, I have.’ but it needs to be remembered that I am often, either, alone or shooting with strangers on isolated firing ranges. Especially in recent years, more and more people have been unexpectedly showing up who demonstrate personal behaviors that - in my considered opinion - should disallow them from either owning or even being near guns.

Whether or not a civilian gunman should carry his pistol in C-1, or C-3 is a very personal decision - One that I believe should be made on the basis of: need, exposure, experience, and personal skill. Let’s be entirely honest: Nobody ever actually transformed himself into the, ‘biggest, baddest, mofo in the jungle’ simply because he carries his pistol in C-1. Neither is an experienced and generally competent pistolero guaranteed to win, or even to have an advantage, in a CQB gun or knife ambush simply because he’s, ‘locked and loaded’. I truly believe that probability and actual need should play big parts in the final carry decision. I, also, know from my own life experience that understanding how to fight, and being good at it, are far more important than whether or not I go around in C-1, or C-3.

As far as I’m concerned: Whether it's a gun, a knife, or C-1, or C-3 carry, a genetically dangerous or heavily experienced individual - One who knows how to fight, how to kill, and remains unflinching in his self-discipline, spiritual attitude, and personal lethality - is far more difficult to defeat than your, ‘average Joe’ with a smok 'in C-1 pistol on his hip. All this said, do I think that the typical American civilian needs to go around all day long in C-1? No, I do not. I think such individuals WANT rather than actually NEED to do so.

Too often, too much of internet advice is worth what you paid for it. It’s, also, historically correct to say that majority opinions are usually wrong. (Socrates said that, not me!) It’s your call; and you are the one who will have to live with the resultant consequences of the decision. (Good to think about BEFORE you sit down, somewhere, on a commode and pull your C-1 pistol out of its holster for a few moments - Yes?)



NOTE: As an aside, it's as facetious as it is true that there is no such thing as, 'C-1 carry' with a Glock. A Glock pistol with a chambered round is actually in, 'C-0'.
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:58   #94
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I have a coworker who insists on carrying his G19 with an empty chamber. He also unloads the magazine every time he gets out of his car to enter a store. Then he loads it when he gets back to his car. There is NO changing his mind on this. He refuses to consider carrying a chambered Glock.
This may be the dumbest thing I have ever read on GT. I hope your friend never needs to use his weapon to save his arse or his family, becuase if he does, he won't be able to.
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:13   #95
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Going off the stat that most gun fights go by the 333 rule, i would definitely carry with one in the chamber. You might need that other hand to create distance between you and assailant.

When training with your draw, ALWAYS Reholster very slow and look your pistol all the way in. There is no reason you should have to Reholster fast.

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Old 08-28-2012, 08:41   #96
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This may be the dumbest thing I have ever read on GT. I hope your friend never needs to use his weapon to save his arse or his family, becuase if he does, he won't be able to.
He thinks it's disrespectful to carry a loaded gun into someone's business... I don't see what the point of getting a cwl is if you're just going to have it loaded in your car. You can do that in my state w/o a permit.
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:54   #97
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Going off the stat that most gun fights go by the 333 rule, i would definitely carry with one in the chamber. You might need that other hand to create distance between you and assailant.

When training with your draw, ALWAYS Reholster very slow and look your pistol all the way in. There is no reason you should have to Reholster fast.
Ahh, more Internet wisdom!

YOU REALLY DO NEED TO READ MORE!

A more correct statement would be, 'Most gunfights THAT THE INTENDED VICTIM LOSES occur at and inside 3 yards, exchange only 3 shots, and take place in 3 seconds, or less, time.'

Try to be more careful about what you allow yourself to hold, 'as gospel'. People who tend to survive gunfights DO NOT live by those often quoted and thoroughly misguided '3x3x3 rules-of-engagement'.

Here, I'll do you a favor:

http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/2...pens_gunfight/

and,

http://www.lawofficer.com/article/tr...er-soulis-inci

Now, while much of the information is abstract and needs to be identified and ferreted out, this is my favorite CQB gunfighting video:


Hope this helps you out!
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:19   #98
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Ahh, more Internet wisdom!

YOU REALLY DO NEED TO READ MORE!

A more correct statement would be, 'Most gunfights THAT THE INTENDED VICTIM LOSES occur at and inside 3 yards, exchange only 3 shots, and take place in 3 seconds, or less, time.'

Try to be more careful about what you allow yourself to hold, 'as gospel'. People who tend to survive gunfights DO NOT live by those often quoted and thoroughly misguided '3x3x3 rules-of-engagement'.

Here, I'll do you a favor:

http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/2...pens_gunfight/

and,

http://www.lawofficer.com/article/tr...er-soulis-inci

Now, while much of the information is abstract and needs to be identified and ferreted out, this is my favorite CQB gunfighting video:

Real Gunfighter Lance Thomas on Justic Files - YouTube

Hope this helps you out!
Thank you "Arc Angel" for your most gracious rebuke.

I've heard this quit often and thought it came from an fbi study. I was simply giving a good reason to carry condition 1. Are there incidents that aren't within the 333? Surely. I will read those links when I get off work though.

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Old 08-28-2012, 10:55   #99
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Arc Angel - My sincere thanks for your posts. Your sage advice is priceless in this place where we chat so mindlessly about carrying and using deadly weapons. I hope you'll save these posts to be inserted into future threads regarding C1 carry.

You and Dave Armstrong provide a very badly needed dose of reality in a debate that is heavy with bravado and light on common sense. Its a debate that appears often because many people new to concealed carry are keenly aware of the lethality of their weapons and want meaningful guidance.

Here is a post that, in my opinion, highlights the influence of bad advice on folks new to concealed carry: "I have been carrying less than a week now. At first I put the gun in my laptop bag unchambered. After driving about 1 mile I thought that's pretty useless. Pulled over...pulled out my G23 and racked the slide....Has been chambered ever since."

With due respect to those who argue against your views, I strongly support your more conservative opinion regarding C1 carry.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 08-28-2012 at 11:11..
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Old 08-28-2012, 11:38   #100
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Arc Angel- do you ever carry condition 1? If so, how do you determine need, exposure, experience to make you go between the two conditions?

I would think if you felt the "need" to go condition 1, you wouldn't go there anyway. (kinda like those who only carry their guns to places they think are bad)

Am I understanding you right that you deem it inherently dangerous to go c-1? (by exposing others to my condition 1?)


The very Internet your condemning, is the same one your using to get your point across. Some just has to be taken with a grain of salt.....

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