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Old 09-29-2010, 09:57   #1
dakrat
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Costco Shooting Ruled "JUSTIFIED"

http://www.lvrj.com/news/officer-tes...103943584.html

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Old 09-29-2010, 10:04   #2
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Were you expecting a different ruling?
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Old 09-29-2010, 10:14   #3
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Based on the evidence and testimony's i think it should be justified. He should of followed officer commands to the tee, and by no means ever have drawn his weapon. Sad that he did, obviously was not thinking clearly.
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Old 09-29-2010, 11:03   #4
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Do you have to register each handgun that you may carry, on your permit in NV?

"Scott had a concealed-weapons permit for his .45-caliber pistol but not for the .380-caliber Ruger that medical personnel later found in his pocket..."
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Old 09-29-2010, 11:04   #5
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IMHO...the officers were completely justified.

Do I think Erik Scott was going to shoot them.? No.

Do I think that Erik Scott failed to comply with the LEO's, and instead took actions that could easily be miss-interpreted as threatening? Yes.

Do I think that LEO's should give suspects every possible benefit-of-the-doubt, waiting until they are actually being shot at before they open fire? BIG NO.

The one party in this whole thing that I am exceeding disappointed with is Costco. They have an unposted, unpublished, uncommunicated policy and they have not properly trained store personnel how to best deal with people who carry into the stores.
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Old 09-29-2010, 11:05   #6
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Originally Posted by SARDG View Post
Do you have to register each handgun that you may carry, on your permit in NV?

"Scott had a concealed-weapons permit for his .45-caliber pistol but not for the .380-caliber Ruger that medical personnel later found in his pocket..."
Yes, you do.
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Old 09-29-2010, 11:16   #7
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Based on the evidence and testimony's i think it should be justified. He should of followed officer commands to the tee, and by no means ever have drawn his weapon. Sad that he did, obviously was not thinking clearly.
In my reading of the inquest he was instructed to "Put it Down" which is on the audio tape. If this was said before he touched the firearm then he may have been shot because he was trying to comply and removed the firearm still in its holster to put it down. Probably still justified or at least excusable but poor choice of wording. I never read anything that clearly established when this command was said. I think it is to much to specify an officer must make sure a firearm is not in a holster in a situation like they had anymore then if someone pulls an airsoft pistol it is reasonable to believe it is a firearm that is loaded and ready to be fired.

I am sure the civil case will go forward.

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Old 09-29-2010, 11:28   #8
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It sucks that he was shot and killed but:

He was belligerent

On drugs (Xanax alone makes you retarded)

Didn't do what he was told so he could prove a point.

I don't understand why some people want to "make a point" whether it's the right time and place or not. Like it or not, do what the cops say WHEN they say it. They have guns and not all of them are calm or smart.
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Old 09-29-2010, 12:00   #9
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Here is the link to the statement made by the girlfriend (Samantha Sterner) to the police, shortly after the shooting:
http://www.lvrj.com/multimedia/Erik-...103755919.html
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Old 09-29-2010, 13:19   #10
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IMHO...the officers were completely justified.

Do I think Erik Scott was going to shoot them.? No.

Do I think that Erik Scott failed to comply with the LEO's, and instead took actions that could easily be miss-interpreted as threatening? Yes.

Do I think that LEO's should give suspects every possible benefit-of-the-doubt, waiting until they are actually being shot at before they open fire? BIG NO.

The one party in this whole thing that I am exceeding disappointed with is Costco. The have an unposted, unpublished, uncommunicated policy and they have not properly trained store personnel how to best deal with people who carry into the stores.
Please allow me a big double ditto to all of the above and my condolences to his family for their loss. I think enough info came out that was detrimental to Scott's condition at the time that the family ought to really re-consider any civil action.
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Old 09-29-2010, 13:34   #11
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Please allow me a big double ditto to all of the above and my condolences to his family for their loss. I think enough info came out that was detrimental to Scott's condition at the time that the family ought to really re-consider any civil action.
Does his condition really matter? To me the fundamental question is if the first officer to shoot was justified in deploying deadly force based on Scott's actions. The inquest said the officer was justified. The fact he had drugs in his system, or threatened a neighbor and his dog a while ago, or got prescriptions illegally might get suppressed in an actual civil case. If they think they can win they should go forward this is their only option available to in their view hold the "Authorities" accountable. The courts will decide.

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Old 09-29-2010, 13:50   #12
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Here is the link to the statement made by the girlfriend (Samantha Sterner) to the police, shortly after the shooting:
http://www.lvrj.com/multimedia/Erik-...103755919.html
She's the one who didn't show up to the inquest and wouldn't testify under oath, right?

So why should anything she said be believed?
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Old 09-29-2010, 14:11   #13
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Not trying to stir anything up, but why would you disarm yourself, should have let the police do it. You pull the gun, you are in trouble.
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Old 09-29-2010, 14:17   #14
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Yes, you do.
Wow he was carrying a Ruger LCP instead of a Kel-Tec P3AT. Those are some pretty crazy rules. They don't track serial numbers so it just comes down to the differences between a LCP and P3AT making you a criminal.
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Old 09-29-2010, 14:23   #15
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I just finished watching the girlfriend's statement .... plain as day - officers asking him to get down, he instead is going for his weapon to "disarm".

Justifiable if you ask me. Disappointing that it happened, and must be absolutely devastating to the family - but I wouldn't hold those cops accountable.
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Old 09-29-2010, 14:26   #16
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The one party in this whole thing that I am exceeding disappointed with is Costco. They have an unposted, unpublished, uncommunicated policy and they have not properly trained store personnel how to best deal with people who carry into the stores.
I too see Costco as a culpable party for the reasons you state.
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Old 09-29-2010, 14:27   #17
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Your little cartoon would indicate you disagree with the ruling. Well guess what? Just because someone wears a tie, has a nice smile and attended college does not exempt them from ********* behavior that can get themselves shot. Not all bad guys have dark skin and saggy pants.

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Old 09-29-2010, 15:52   #18
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Becasue of this -Scott shouldn't have been carring his firearm -PERIOD!

"Scott's post-mortem blood test showed high levels of the painkiller morphine and the anti-anxiety drug Xanax."

A fatal mistake on Scott's part!
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Old 09-29-2010, 15:56   #19
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Not all bad guys have dark skin and saggy pants.
Which raises a great scenario!

You're at a gas station late at night, filling up your car. You see a good looking, well built, white male, clean cut, shirt & tie, approach you. Military bearing. As he approaches, you notice bloodshot eyes, glassy look. A little unsteady on his feet. As he further approaches you notice a gun in his waist.

You have a gun. What do you do with it? Leave it in holster? Hand on gun only? Draw it?

You ask him, "how can I help you sir?" No answer. Do you tell him don't reach for his gun? Or do you not say anything?

He continues to approach you. Do you tell him: "That's far enough sir." Or do you let him continue? Rush and tackle him for a little mano-a-mano? You run away? Scream like a girl?

He continues to approach you and starts to reach for the gun. Do you hope he's going to put it down? What do you do?

He has the gun out and begins to bring it up, what do you do?

All this is over within 3 seconds.

Do you have the balls to shoot a well dressed clean cut good looking white guy? Be honest with yourself.
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Old 09-29-2010, 17:16   #20
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Does his condition really matter? To me the fundamental question is if the first officer to shoot was justified in deploying deadly force based on Scott's actions. The inquest said the officer was justified. The fact he had drugs in his system, or threatened a neighbor and his dog a while ago, or got prescriptions illegally might get suppressed in an actual civil case. If they think they can win they should go forward this is their only option available to in their view hold the "Authorities" accountable. The courts will decide.
I'd put $5 on any drug-related evidence not being suppressed as the evidence standard is much lower in civil cases than criminal. The drugs are absolutely germane to the ACTIONS that led to the justified deadly force.

Here are a couple of terms for your research: "totality of circumstances" and "preponderance of evidence". If, after your research, you still believe his condition doesn't matter and his family has the slightest chance of success in a civil suit (especially given the dearth of video to help their case), please be sure to schedule your LSAT soon. You may be the next Clarence Darrow, Perry Mason, and Johnny Cochran all rolled into one. The family's case is totally hosed.
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Old 09-29-2010, 17:57   #21
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DAMMIT!

wait... I forgot, am I supposed to be upset because the nutjob got killed being a tool or because the cop was found innocent for protecting himself?
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Old 09-29-2010, 18:27   #22
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Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
Which raises a great scenario!

You're at a gas station late at night, filling up your car. You see a good looking, well built, white male, clean cut, shirt & tie, approach you. Military bearing. As he approaches, you notice bloodshot eyes, glassy look. A little unsteady on his feet. As he further approaches you notice a gun in his waist.

You have a gun. What do you do with it? Leave it in holster? Hand on gun only? Draw it?

You ask him, "how can I help you sir?" No answer. Do you tell him don't reach for his gun? Or do you not say anything?

He continues to approach you. Do you tell him: "That's far enough sir." Or do you let him continue? Rush and tackle him for a little mano-a-mano? You run away? Scream like a girl?

He continues to approach you and starts to reach for the gun. Do you hope he's going to put it down? What do you do?

He has the gun out and begins to bring it up, what do you do?

All this is over within 3 seconds.

Do you have the balls to shoot a well dressed clean cut good looking white guy? Be honest with yourself.

The gun is OUT? Then the answer is a resounding YES. I would fire on him. And when the cops show up, they will see a dead guy, ( me or him) with a gun in hand. Seems like the perfect clean cut self defense shooting to me.

KX
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Old 09-29-2010, 18:45   #23
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Good. But at what point in the scenario would you draw your gun? Once drawn, show it to him and say "I got one too," or point it at him and hold fire? Many say only draw your gun when you're ready to fire. At what point in the scenario would you give verbal commands (if you would at all)? Give him a chance to comply? Do you know he understands your verbal commands? At what point in the scenario do you fire? I'm hoping no one is assuming their reaction will beat the guy's action.
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Last edited by Patchman; 09-29-2010 at 18:49..
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Old 09-29-2010, 18:57   #24
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I'd put $5 on any drug-related evidence not being suppressed as the evidence standard is much lower in civil cases than criminal. The drugs are absolutely germane to the ACTIONS that led to the justified deadly force.

Here are a couple of terms for your research: "totality of circumstances" and "preponderance of evidence". If, after your research, you still believe his condition doesn't matter and his family has the slightest chance of success in a civil suit (especially given the dearth of video to help their case), please be sure to schedule your LSAT soon. You may be the next Clarence Darrow, Perry Mason, and Johnny Cochran all rolled into one. The family's case is totally hosed.
I guess we will see. It makes no sense to me that anything not know by the person who shot him is relevant to the decision to shoot him at that moment. But as I assume you where pointing out in your comedy routine I am not a lawyer nor any desire to be one. If a person can win a civil case by spilling hot coffee in their own lap then I think this case has a chance and if I felt the way the family seems to feel about it I would pursue it. They seem to be willing to pay to find out.
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Old 09-29-2010, 19:02   #25
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"Put your hands up and don't move!"
"Ok Sir I understand. I am just going to pull my shirt up and disarm first"

Those are his girlfriends words. I don't know if she realized she justified the shooting with her interview. I believe every word she said because she incriminated her boyfriend.

Costco may have overreacted but the girlfriend wasn't there and he is dead so I don't know how anything will be proved in that regard.
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