GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-06-2010, 16:27   #1
win
Senior Member
 
win's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hoxie, ks
Posts: 1,413
30.06 reloading help needed (m1 garand)

I am loading some 30.06 ammo. I trying a 168 gr bthp and loading 44gr of imr 3031.
I can not find 168 on their web page but they had 165gr bullets. I just reduced the poweder charge buy 0.5 gr.
Here is my problem I loaded 8 up and took my m1 garand to the range.
Not 1 round fired. very very small mark on the primer.
When I go home I put a empty primed case in the gun and it fired just fine.
So what do you think my problem is.
I just bought new RCBS dies.
I have notice a problem with the bullet seat and crimp die. The bullet want to stick in the dies and pulls it back out a little. I can see on the bullet where it is scrached.
I am also a little conserned with the crimp. i have it almost all the way down to max crimp. But with one good hit with the bullet puller and they came right out.
Last time I reloaded some 223 it took more than one hit to remove the bullet on those. but they where loaded on a dillon 550b. I can not remember the name brand of the dies now but I was using a dillon crimp die.
any and all ehlp would be great.
thanks
__________________
wendal
win is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 16:33   #2
Gokyo
Senior Member
 
Gokyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Washington
Posts: 2,310
I suspect it the case was not all the way in the chamber and it was trying to fire out of battery.
__________________
Character is what you are in the dark



Courage is grace under pressure
Gokyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 16:52   #3
win
Senior Member
 
win's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hoxie, ks
Posts: 1,413
some of the cases where very hard to get back out of the m1.
I am using onece fired brass from the CMP.
__________________
wendal
win is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 17:08   #4
MSgt Dotson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,226
If the shoulder is set back too far, the cases may be riding too far forward, jamming the bullets into the rifling...
MSgt Dotson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 17:11   #5
win
Senior Member
 
win's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hoxie, ks
Posts: 1,413
how do I check it or fix it?
Should I be using a smaller bullet?
thanks
__________________
wendal
win is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 17:22   #6
GOA Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 258
Are you using a 168 HPBT bullet with a cannelure? If not, you shouldn't be putting much of a crimp on it. I personally wouldn't use any at all but some folks will. If you are maxing out the crimp feature of your dies you may be getting a buldged neck on the case not allowing it to fully chamber. That can also reduce the neck tension to near zero causing the loose bullet you are speaking of.
GOA Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 17:32   #7
Jeff82
CLM Number 237
NRA Benefactor
 
Jeff82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: USofA!
Posts: 6,121


I've been told to shoot only 150 gr bullets in a Garand. A heavier bullet can damage the op-rod or some such.

YMMV
__________________
MOΛΩN ΛABE!

"A Republic, if you can keep it." B. Franklin, 1787, outside Independence Hall

There's not "good" or "bad" muslims, only those true to their book and those that aren't, yet...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Jeff82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 17:40   #8
n2extrm
Senior Member
 
n2extrm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,915
I don't load for the Garand, hopefully one of the guys that does will be by. You have to be careful only certain powders are suitable for it or you will have problems including operating rod failure/bending.

As for the failure to fire and other issues. Does the gun go fully into battery? Do you have a case gauge and do the rounds pass? You say the rounds are hard to eject, if you load just a sized case no bullet are they still hard to eject? Crimp is not what should be holding the bullet so much as neck tension. If you are over crimping it may make neck tension worse. Measure you neck expander and your bullets. Lets see if they are in spec, besides it will make C4W happy if he comes by. Are your primers fully seated and what are you using?
__________________
Simply a Flatlander.
n2extrm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 17:44   #9
GOA Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff82 View Post
I've been told to shoot only 150 gr bullets in a Garand. A heavier bullet can damage the op-rod or some such.

YMMV
Too slow a powder may cause a op-rod problem. You can end up with to high of a port pressure which can over work the op-rod. Bullet weight shouldn't be a concern.
GOA Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 17:51   #10
fredj338
Senior Member
 
fredj338's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
Posts: 21,848
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff82 View Post
I've been told to shoot only 150 gr bullets in a Garand. A heavier bullet can damage the op-rod or some such.

YMMV
No, as long as you stay under 180gr & under max 06 loads avoiding slow powders, the op rod will be fine. I shoot 168gr out of mine all thet time.
To the OP, you may be over crimping, causing a bulge in the brass that is not allowing it to chamber fully. The round needs very little crimp. Also, make sure the firing pin is moving freely in the bolt, some of the bolts get gunked up. You can even go up a bit in powder charge. If it will fire a primed case, you should be fine there. I would look at the overcrimping first. Try loading w/o a crimp, crimp is not mandatory.
__________________
"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".

Last edited by fredj338; 09-06-2010 at 17:53..
fredj338 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 18:06   #11
win
Senior Member
 
win's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hoxie, ks
Posts: 1,413
I am useing wincheaster primers and they are in as far as I can get them. I used a lee hand primer.
I will try loading some more with less crimp. I was worried about the bullets moveing when the gun was fired do to the bolt moveiing the round into chamber or just recoil. Here a local cop bluw up his pistol because the rounds did not have enought cripm and the bullet got seated further in to the case.
I do not have go/no go guage.
How much crimp shoud I put on? run a round up in it and when it make contact turn it in a half a turn. whould that be enought cripm? I am just worried about over presure.
Is the powder I am using OK?
I am off to the reloading room to start over.
It will load and unload an empty case great.
I think I am way over crimping them.
thanks for the help.
__________________
wendal
win is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 18:19   #12
win
Senior Member
 
win's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hoxie, ks
Posts: 1,413
sorry no cannelure on bullets. hornday match 168 hpbt
__________________
wendal
win is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 18:20   #13
kilroy2721
Senior Member
 
kilroy2721's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,343
Shooting 168gr HPBT is no problem for the Garand. I would also suggest trying a Go/No Go gauge also.

What is the overall length of the case and also the cartridge?
__________________
The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other Son of a ***** die for his country.
kilroy2721 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 19:28   #14
buyobuyo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Socorro, NM
Posts: 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by win View Post
I am useing wincheaster primers and they are in as far as I can get them. I used a lee hand primer.
I will try loading some more with less crimp. I was worried about the bullets moveing when the gun was fired do to the bolt moveiing the round into chamber or just recoil. Here a local cop bluw up his pistol because the rounds did not have enought cripm and the bullet got seated further in to the case.
I do not have go/no go guage.
How much crimp shoud I put on? run a round up in it and when it make contact turn it in a half a turn. whould that be enought cripm? I am just worried about over presure.
Is the powder I am using OK?
I am off to the reloading room to start over.
It will load and unload an empty case great.
I think I am way over crimping them.
thanks for the help.

Load a round with no crimp at all and then press the nose of the round on the edge of the bench. If you have any setback, work the die in an 1/8 turn at a time until you don't get any COAL change. You don't have to press super hard. Just a firm press will do to test for setback.

I load 168gr bthp for my garand with no crimp and have no setback issues.
buyobuyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 19:51   #15
n2extrm
Senior Member
 
n2extrm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,915
Crimping on a bullet with no canular is not really going to do anything but loosen the bullet. Make sure your dies are sizing and adjusted properly, lose some of that crimp. Do the set back test above. Make sure the firing pins is free like fred said. Remeber a 168 is going to come out easier then a 55 or 60 grain bullet in a inertia (hammer type) bullet puller, it weighs 3 times more then the others. My guess is like others said the crimp is causing you to not get the round chambered and into battery.
__________________
Simply a Flatlander.
n2extrm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 20:37   #16
chris in va
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 3,923
Sorry I can't really dissect your loading procedure, but here's mine that works beautifully in my 1945 Garand.

Lube range pickup brass (mixed) in/out
Decap/size using Lee full length sizing die
Vibratory clean
Trim
Prime
Charge with 47gr of 4895
Seat with surplus 150gr 308 bullet
Medium crimp with Lee FCD

I'm not familiar with 3031 powder. 4895 was the 'original' powder used by the military, 4064 is also apparently acceptable.

The primer needs to be seated slightly below flush with the case.

Last edited by chris in va; 09-06-2010 at 20:41..
chris in va is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 20:48   #17
GOA Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by win View Post
sorry no cannelure on bullets. hornday match 168 hpbt
If a rifle bullet doesn't have a cannnelure and you try crimp it with standard seating dies the case mouth has nowhere to go. You end up mashing the case mouth into the bullet, deforming it, and the brass springs back away from the bullet creating less neck tension rather than more. Like I and others have said, try loading without any crimp and let the neck tension do its job. I think you may be pleasantly surprised.
GOA Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 21:46   #18
win
Senior Member
 
win's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hoxie, ks
Posts: 1,413
I tried the push test and I could not see it move.
I backed my crimp off. Not sure how much. maybe a full turn of the die. case necks look good.
I never thought about the crimp did not have anyplace to go.
anyway thanks again guys. I just was not think
I am back to the range tomorrow night.
case trimed to 2.47 to 2.40 trimed by hand and some varry.
load length is 3.245 manual says 3.240 some will be right on hte money at 3.240 might have to adjust the die in a little.
tried to push the bullet in the case by pushing againest the table. I could not see it move. it measure the same after moveing.
I think I am good to go.
thanks again
__________________
wendal
win is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 22:31   #19
fredj338
Senior Member
 
fredj338's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
Posts: 21,848
Blog Entries: 3
I've never seen a bullet setback in a rifle from feeding or recoil, except for some lever guns. Try w/o a crimp. You can lightly crimp w/o a groove, 1/4 turn of the seating die is more than enough.
__________________
"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".
fredj338 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2010, 08:49   #20
CWPINST
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: SC, USA
Posts: 462
I have never loaded for a Garand, but have loaded for a number of semi-autos. You MUST make sure that your sizing is correct before loading the rounds. When you FL size the cases, hand cycle them in the rifle to make sure that the action is closing easily. This is important, because there will be differences in once fired cases. The ones that are especially hard to size will be of slightly larger dimensions after sizing than the easier ones. These are the ones that I make sure will hand cycle before loading. I would suggest a very slight or no crimp. If the rounds are hard to extract by hand, you probably didn't size them enough, or else the bullet is seated out too far. That is why you check after sizing and before loading. Semi-autos are much more sensitive to this than bolt guns.
CWPINST is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:05.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 917
287 Members
630 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31