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Old 07-06-2010, 16:48   #1
unsuperman
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reloads and stock glock 26 problem

gun is a bone stock glock 26.

reload specs
mixed once fired brass
cci small rifle primers
hornady xtp/hp 115gr
5.0 gr's of titegroup.

if it matters i can get OAL of the round. brass was trimmed accordingly.

i am aware that 5.0 grains of titegroup is over any published max. the round fires fine in my stock full sized g17.

but firing the first round out of my G26 i noted something. near the case mouth, it appears that the case was dragged across the ground. like there is a small mark about a 1/8-1/4inch long starting at the case mouth.

what might cause this?

my first guess was, since this is a very hot load, and the recoil spring is stock, the slide is light weight, that the recoil is causing the slide to come back at an accelerated rate, clipping the case.

ill try and get pictures later. but does this sound like the problem, or has anyone seen this before..
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Old 07-06-2010, 17:07   #2
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You trim handgun brass? Is this match ammo or something?

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Old 07-06-2010, 17:17   #3
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Is it a black burn mark? Thats just typical TG burn.

More importantly, why in the earth would you load over max with TG. Pet some Power Pistol if you like more push/flash/manly stuff.
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Old 07-06-2010, 17:19   #4
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Does it look like this?

Reloading
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Old 07-06-2010, 17:57   #5
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Please do not take this in the wrong way. I well take your word that your load is over max. Your using rifle primers that may increase pressure. You trimmed the brass so now you have even less case capacity increase pressure. Just because this round works in your G17 and show now signs of over pressure does not mean that it well work in another gun, even thought it is a Glock.
Why you would even want too load rounds that hot, beats me.
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Old 07-06-2010, 18:26   #6
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I can't help you if you can't follow the published load data
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Old 07-06-2010, 18:38   #7
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A picture would help. As others have said you have several issues. I have never had to trim a pistol case in my life. I wouls not push the limits of titegroup. I have used it in my 9mm and .45 loads and never gotten to max. 9mm was 4.2 grains under a 115 grain FMJ or JHP. It was a good solid load. Using a rifle primer is only going to add another possible pressure increase and titegroup is a very fast spikey powder. It is common to have scorch marks like steve said. Your OAL is also going to have a huge impact on pressure, especialy considering the fact you are over max and using a rifle primer. I would scrap this whole load and star over more towards 4.0 grains and the max OAl that will run.
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Old 07-06-2010, 18:47   #8
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The fascination with max loads is analogous to falling in love with a hooker... it's fun until it all blows up in your face.


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Old 07-06-2010, 19:25   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unsuperman View Post
gun is a bone stock glock 26.

reload specs
mixed once fired brass
cci small rifle primers
hornady xtp/hp 115gr
5.0 gr's of titegroup.

if it matters i can get OAL of the round. brass was trimmed accordingly.

i am aware that 5.0 grains of titegroup is over any published max.
the round fires fine in my stock full sized g17.

Above max load.... rifle primers.... unaware of the significance of OAL in reloads.... and he knows of it all....
recipe for disaster, please make sure you shoot at a range where an innocent bystander won't get injured.

This ain't good... and this is speaking from a Titegroup whore.
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Old 07-06-2010, 19:37   #10
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The fascination with max loads is analogous to falling in love with a hooker... it's fun until it all blows up in your face.


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Old 07-06-2010, 19:45   #11
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Old 07-06-2010, 21:24   #12
unsuperman
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sorry, i dont know why i typed rifle. they are small pistol primers. cci 500's.

and i worked up too 5.0 grains of titegroup slowly.

i didn't post OAL because im not home, and dont have access to the ammo, so i couldnt measure it, or remember it off the top of my head.

Reloading

yes it looks just like that.
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Old 07-06-2010, 21:26   #13
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also most of the brass isnt trimmed. but i check randomly every 5th ish case to make sure its under max. im still learning, so i still check. im aware very little handgun brass needs trimming, but i check all the same. to be safe.

also, the brass shows no signs of over pressure. the primers are not flattened, and the case shows no bulges near the rim or base. its not even getting a "glock" smilie out of my g17.

Last edited by unsuperman; 07-06-2010 at 21:28..
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Old 07-06-2010, 21:33   #14
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Originally Posted by Boxerglocker View Post
Above max load.... rifle primers.... unaware of the significance of OAL in reloads.... and he knows of it all....
recipe for disaster, please make sure you shoot at a range where an innocent bystander won't get injured.

This ain't good... and this is speaking from a Titegroup whore.

feel better? please point me in the direction where anyone shows a load fro a manufacture over 4.6 grains of titegroup? i never assumed i knew it all. i just know i've researched PLENTY and never seen anything listed over that number. i do however belong to forums where people attempting to create major loads, and to move long slide weapons will typically put more then 6grains of titegroup under a 115gr slug, with no ill effects. perhaps if you spent less time being an internet badass, and more time helping me, id learn something useful from you.
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Old 07-06-2010, 23:43   #15
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Originally Posted by unsuperman View Post
feel better? please point me in the direction where anyone shows a load fro a manufacture over 4.6 grains of titegroup? i never assumed i knew it all. i just know i've researched PLENTY and never seen anything listed over that number. i do however belong to forums where people attempting to create major loads, and to move long slide weapons will typically put more then 6grains of titegroup under a 115gr slug, with no ill effects. perhaps if you spent less time being an internet badass, and more time helping me, id learn something useful from you.
No offense OP. The writing's of your original post, didn't give one the warm and fuzzy feeling of you had the knowledge to be experimenting to the level you are. I'm well aware that competition re-loaders take 9mm up to major but I know relatively recently I have personally search for TG loads in Major but found it to be non-existent. The powder is to fast. The motioning that you didn't feel any significance in OAL was also a red light. Any well researched re-loader knows that OAL can make significant effects on pressure and velocities combine that with a udder fast powder and you have the makings for as others have said disaster. If you want to go +p I would suggest another powder. I personally have worked up son NATO velocity 124g FMJ stuff with Power Pistol, I used know once fired all speer brass and CCI primers.
May I ask exactly what your purpose for developing such a load would be for?
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Old 07-07-2010, 02:06   #16
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Originally Posted by Boxerglocker View Post
No offense OP. The writing's of your original post, didn't give one the warm and fuzzy feeling of you had the knowledge to be experimenting to the level you are. I'm well aware that competition re-loaders take 9mm up to major but I know relatively recently I have personally search for TG loads in Major but found it to be non-existent. The powder is to fast. The motioning that you didn't feel any significance in OAL was also a red light. Any well researched re-loader knows that OAL can make significant effects on pressure and velocities combine that with a udder fast powder and you have the makings for as others have said disaster. If you want to go +p I would suggest another powder. I personally have worked up son NATO velocity 124g FMJ stuff with Power Pistol, I used know once fired all speer brass and CCI primers.
May I ask exactly what your purpose for developing such a load would be for?

the OAL was just an over site as i couldn't readily get to it when i posted. there is no real point of the load per-say. more so just seeing how fast/accurately i can push the 9mm 115gr bullet safely. aside from that, i have no use for it. my 10mm g20 fills my SD/HD needs. the 17 and 26 are retired to the safe for range use only.

unfortunately power pistol isn't readily available near me. its an AMAZING 10mm powder, and i really want to give it a shot. but TG is the best pistol powder in a low volume charge, i can get locally. Since i dont buy in large amounts, i cant justify the HAZMAT fee's for ordering online.

i appreciate any help that can be given, but generally speaking, i tend NOT to post here on GT, because the "seasoned" members tend to think they know it all, and will reflect on you, based on your post count, accordingly.

with that being said, my brass does match the pictured brass. if that helps. the OAL is 1.085

5.0 grains of TG
CCI small PISTOL primers
mixed brass once fired
115gr xtpHP
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Old 07-07-2010, 02:29   #17
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yes it looks just like that.
Then stop worrying. Those marks are common for Glocks, even with weaker factory ammo.
The above photo is what every single piece of brass out of my G26 looked like. My G19 leaves the same dents too, although not as deep.
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Old 07-07-2010, 03:37   #18
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Originally Posted by Boxerglocker View Post
No offense OP. The writing's of your original post, didn't give one the warm and fuzzy feeling of you had the knowledge to be experimenting to the level you are. I'm well aware that competition re-loaders take 9mm up to major but I know relatively recently I have personally search for TG loads in Major but found it to be non-existent. The powder is to fast. The motioning that you didn't feel any significance in OAL was also a red light. Any well researched re-loader knows that OAL can make significant effects on pressure and velocities combine that with a udder fast powder and you have the makings for as others have said disaster. If you want to go +p I would suggest another powder. I personally have worked up son NATO velocity 124g FMJ stuff with Power Pistol, I used know once fired all speer brass and CCI primers.
May I ask exactly what your purpose for developing such a load would be for?
+1 Overspec loads should be Power Pistol or even Longshot.
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:42   #19
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please point me in the direction where anyone shows a load fro a manufacture over 4.6 grains of titegroup?
FWIW, the Hodgdon Reloading Data Center lists a max load of 4.8 grains of Titegroup with a 115 grain Speer GDHP at 1.125" OAL. They show 1158 fps and 30,500 CUP at that loading.

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:44   #20
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You trim handgun brass? Is this match ammo or something?

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Old 07-07-2010, 10:56   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxerglocker View Post
Above max load.... rifle primers.... unaware of the significance of OAL in reloads.... and he knows of it all....
recipe for disaster, please make sure you shoot at a range where an innocent bystander won't get injured.

This ain't good... and this is speaking from a Titegroup whore.
As well noted, not paying attention to OAL, especially in the 9mm, especially w/ TG, you are asking for serious trouble at some point. Danger Wil Robinson, danger!
Quote:
i appreciate any help that can be given, but generally speaking, i tend NOT to post here on GT, because the "seasoned" members tend to think they know it all, and will reflect on you, based on your post count, accordingly.
Please point to me where anyone is running TG in 9mm major loads? From Hogdon:
115 GR. SPR GDHP Hodgdon Titegroup .355" 1.125" 4.5 1135 29,500 CUP 4.8 1158 30,500 CUP You may feel you KNOW more than some on this site, but your loading techniques are not telling me you have a grasp. If you want to make the 9mm go major, TG is NOT the powder of choice. Think a whole lot slower, like WSF, Longshot, PP, AA#7 or VVN350 or VV 3N37.
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Old 07-07-2010, 11:55   #22
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If you want to make the 9mm go major, TG is NOT the powder of choice. Think a whole lot slower, like WSF, Longshot, PP, AA#7 or VVN350 or VV 3N37.
And a lot longer with OAL as much as your mags can take and that will cycle in your G26 reliably. When developing my NATO spec load with PP, 1.155 was my OAL gave me the case room necessary for the powder.
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Old 07-07-2010, 12:22   #23
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Originally Posted by unsuperman View Post
gun is a bone stock glock 26.

reload specs
mixed once fired brass
cci small rifle primers
hornady xtp/hp 115gr
5.0 gr's of titegroup.

if it matters i can get OAL of the round. brass was trimmed accordingly.

i am aware that 5.0 grains of titegroup is over any published max. the round fires fine in my stock full sized g17.

but firing the first round out of my G26 i noted something. near the case mouth, it appears that the case was dragged across the ground. like there is a small mark about a 1/8-1/4inch long starting at the case mouth.

what might cause this?

my first guess was, since this is a very hot load, and the recoil spring is stock, the slide is light weight, that the recoil is causing the slide to come back at an accelerated rate, clipping the case.

ill try and get pictures later. but does this sound like the problem, or has anyone seen this before..
As to your primary question, the ejection characteristics of some loads in some guns can mark or crimp the cases as you've seen. Sometimes, altering the load or changing recoil springs can "fix" the issue but in general, it's no big deal.

As to the load, you've gotten some good advice and positive comments. Now, that may not be what you want to hear but fact remains, good information. I'm not one of the guys who "hates" Titegroup, I use it in some loads and for what I do with it, like it just fine. That said, it would be the absolute last powder I'd use flirting with top end loads. TG has an extremely high nitroglycerin content and is very dense making an overcharge almost impossible to detect visually. Exceeding the recommended load is folly and is inviting disaster. This ain't my opinion...there's a heap of shooters some of which are well seasoned in the reloading game who can testify to the risks from personal experience.

FWIW, if you like and prefer to shoot hotter loads in 9MM, have a look at Power Pistol, Silhouette, AA#7 and WSF. All of these will attain higher velocities at lower pressure than TG and in general, are far safer. Being slightly slower burning, the recoil impulse will be longer by a fraction and you may well find the gun cycles better.
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Old 07-07-2010, 15:43   #24
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As well noted, not paying attention to OAL, especially in the 9mm, especially w/ TG, you are asking for serious trouble at some point. Danger Wil Robinson, danger!

Please point to me where anyone is running TG in 9mm major loads? From Hogdon:
115 GR. SPR GDHP Hodgdon Titegroup .355" 1.125" 4.5 1135 29,500 CUP 4.8 1158 30,500 CUP You may feel you KNOW more than some on this site, but your loading techniques are not telling me you have a grasp. If you want to make the 9mm go major, TG is NOT the powder of choice. Think a whole lot slower, like WSF, Longshot, PP, AA#7 or VVN350 or VV 3N37.
yea. attempt and recreate are two very different things. I know they dont produce major loads with TG, the point was, while im over max, im not near the limit that 9mm, 115gr rounds, and titegroup are possible of, safely. nor do i plan to go there. I stated that 5.0 grains is over published max, and you basically restated what i said, so thanks?

again, if some one will PLEASEE point me to a post where i ever once stated knowing more then ANYONE ill delete my account here. Im a part of other forums, but being a GLOCK specific case, i wanted YOUR guys help. why? because i know you guys know more.

now. if the brass is normal that way, basically the g26 is going to ruin all the brass i fire thru it? thats kind of ****ty. perhaps i should dedicate all my multiple loaded brass to the g26 once it gets older, and save the once, twice, and forth time brass for my other 9mm?

if a recoil spring will help, ill try that first. 15$ is a lot cheaper then killing my 9mm brass on its 2nd and 3rd loads..
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Old 07-07-2010, 15:47   #25
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FWIW, if you like and prefer to shoot hotter loads in 9MM, have a look at Power Pistol, Silhouette, AA#7 and WSF. All of these will attain higher velocities at lower pressure than TG and in general, are far safer. Being slightly slower burning, the recoil impulse will be longer by a fraction and you may well find the gun cycles better.
I'm betting the overcharge of TG, hgh slides speed & maybe slight premature unlocking of the bbl/slide is causing the "chip" on the brass w/ the short slide of the G26, but just a guess. I am no alchemist, just a concerned reloader. Oh yeah, I do hate TG, but only for newb reloaders. I just don't like tiny little powder charges, gives me the willies like listening to liberals talk on TV.
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