[macville]

So our reps just overrode our dumb gov 61 to 30 and it's now legal to carry in any place that serves alcohol as long as it's not posted. The bad news is that a legal posting can now be as easy as just a gunbusters sign:( Got something to work on for next session!

[unclecharlie]

Send some of those TN constituents to NC, wouldja?

[JC1848]

I was watching but wasn't sure when it actually becomes law

[macville]

Originally Posted by JC1848

I was watching but wasn't sure when it actually becomes law

It says right away, but I believe both the speaker of the senate and house have to sign it. So while I doubt anyone would try put you in jail right now if you went out carrying, it should probably be legal in the morning when the head of the senate can sign it.

Matthew

[PEC-Memphis]

43rd or 33rd ?

Originally Posted by JC1848

I was watching but wasn't sure when it actually becomes law

Gov. Bredesen’s Veto of Restaurant Carry Again Overridden by State Legislature

Friday, June 04, 2010

Fairfax, Va. – In a strong reaffirmation of the fundamental right of self-defense, the Tennessee House and Senate have successfully overridden Governor Phil Bredesen’s veto of Senate Bill 3012. This NRA-supported bill will enable law-abiding right-to-carry permit holders to carry firearms for self-defense in establishments where alcohol is served, as long as they do not consume alcohol or are not otherwise prohibited by posting provisions. SB 3012 passed both the House and Senate with broad bipartisan support, but Gov. Bredesen vetoed the bill on May 18, disappointing more than 250,000 right-to-carry permit holders in his state. While an override of the veto only needed a simple majority vote to pass, it cleared both chambers with overwhelming, bipartisan support. This measure was overridden in the Senate by a margin of 22-10 and in the House by a margin of 61-30.

“Until today, Tennessee law has prevented right-to-carry permit holders from having the chance to defend themselves from criminal attack while in a restaurant,” said Chris W. Cox, NRA chief lobbyist. "It’s a shame that Governor Bredesen has so little faith in his fellow Tennesseans to behave responsibly, but this veto override proves that the majority of Tennessee legislators do trust permit holders. They understand this is a common-sense measure that must become law in their state, just as it is already law in 32 other states.”

Not one of the 32 states that allow permit holders to carry in establishments that serve alcohol has repealed this law. That’s because these laws have proven to be effective and permit holders have proven to be trustworthy. This type of legislation is crucial because crime can occur anywhere, including in restaurants. On April 2, 2009, a Tennessee man was gunned down at a sports bar in Nashville by a criminal stalking his wife. Although she was a right-to-carry permit holder, she was forced to helplessly watch this tragedy unfold, because Tennessee law required her to leave her gun locked in the car outside.

A bill similar to SB 3012 passed the Tennessee House and Senate with overwhelming bipartisan support in May 2009, only to be vetoed by Gov. Bredesen. Despite a successful veto override by Tennessee’s state legislature, the enacted law was ruled unconstitutionally vague because of a perceived ambiguity over the state’s definition of restaurants. SB 3012, filed in response to that court ruling last November, fixed any possible ambiguity.

“We would like to thank State Sen. Doug Jackson (D-25), State Rep. Curry Todd (R-95) and Lt. Governor Ron Ramsey for their leadership and commitment to this effort” concluded Cox.

This law will go into effect upon being assigned a public chapter number by the Tennessee Secretary of State.


======

Now the restaurant ass. will go shopping for another judge to legislate from the bench. I guess something else will be too vague.

[alien-Glocker]

Good job TN General Assembly in the veto over ride!

Only 26 days left here in Virginia before we can carry concealed (already have open carry) in an ABC-on restaurant!

[Resqu2]

Quick question for you TN guys, does a posting carry any weight of law or is it like VA, just means leave if ask?

[macville]

Originally Posted by Resqu2

Quick question for you TN guys, does a posting carry any weight of law or is it like VA, just means leave if ask?

Carries the weight of the law. It looks like a "proper" posting now just carries the fine of $500. However, here's the good news. A cop has to catch you past the sign to make anything stick. If the cops are called, you know it, and get out past the sign before they arrive, you are good to go. The key is not not go into businesses who are posted. However, there are places like hospitals and what not that you are not really "supporting" them by sometimes you need to go.

[Resqu2]

Originally Posted by macville

Carries the weight of the law. It looks like a "proper" posting now just carries the fine of $500. However, here's the good news. A cop has to catch you past the sign to make anything stick. If the cops are called, you know it, and get out past the sign before they arrive, you are good to go. The key is not not go into businesses who are posted. However, there are places like hospitals and what not that you are not really "supporting" them by sometimes you need to go.

I agree on not going in to posted places but sometimes you can miss a sign and not know it, I was recently ask/told to leave the Bristol mall here in VA, only 2 of the many doors are posted and it's way off to the left in with a bunch of mall rules. I'd just hate to have a criminal charge over a missed sign, that is why I was wondering.

[Caver 60]

Next year get the Tennessee legislature to review the statutes for states that have pulled the teeth on those no gun signs and have them do likewise.

[CTM_357]

I knew they would get this sorted out!

[macville]

Originally Posted by Resqu2

I agree on not going in to posted places but sometimes you can miss a sign and not know it, I was recently ask/told to leave the Bristol mall here in VA, only 2 of the many doors are posted and it's way off to the left in with a bunch of mall rules. I'd just hate to have a criminal charge over a missed sign, that is why I was wondering.

That would not be a legal posting even now. It has to be plainly visible to someone entering at all doors. There are questions because of how it's worded if the gunbusters sign along with the wrong text is actually a valid posting (since most places tend to post the symbol with some sort of text.)

[glock37gap]

this is good news. i currently live in south carolina where it is illegal to carry in an alcohol serving resturant. i pray that sc will get it together soon. my orginal home is tn and i travel to nashville often. glad to hear they are getting things right.

[1smoothredneck]

tag for future

[team9x19]

that's good to hear. now only if MO would get to it ...

[ancient_serpent]

Awesome!! Been waiting for this to come through.

[Caver 60]

Originally Posted by team9x19

that's good to hear. now only if MO would get to it ...

Not quite sure what you mean by that statement?

In MO you can carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol, and even imbibe, as long as you're not 'intoxicated' whatever that means. You can even carry in a bar as long as you have the owners or managers permission.

The big problem in MO is there's no good definition of 'intoxicated' that I've been able to find. It's just a judgment call on the part of the LEO, something about substantially impaired. They won't even let you blow in the tube or give a blood sample. If the LEO says you're intoxicated, you're intoxicated, even if you would be legal to drive, i.e. below .05 BAC.

That's what needs to be fixed in MO.

[DustyJacket]

Originally Posted by Caver 60

Not quite sure what you mean by that statement?

In MO you can carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol,....

In MO you can carry into an establishment that is NOT a bar which is defined as a place that earns 51% or more of its income through alcoholic beverage sales.

I suspect that is what he was referring to.


Congrats to TN - I am headed there in a couple of weeks, so I am happy to see this.

What are the requirements for the no-guns sign?

[team9x19]

Originally Posted by Caver 60

Not quite sure what you mean by that statement?

In MO you can carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol, and even imbibe, as long as you're not 'intoxicated' whatever that means. You can even carry in a bar as long as you have the owners or managers permission.

The big problem in MO is there's no good definition of 'intoxicated' that I've been able to find. It's just a judgment call on the part of the LEO, something about substantially impaired. They won't even let you blow in the tube or give a blood sample. If the LEO says you're intoxicated, you're intoxicated, even if you would be legal to drive, i.e. below .05 BAC.

That's what needs to be fixed in MO.

actually i'm fairly sure that in MO you cannot carry into a restaurant or place of business that makes 50% or more of it's profit in alcohol sales. however this does not stop one from carrying into a liquor or alcohol store since they do not serve drinks for consumption on their property.

and if you're carrying you better have not had a single drink either..

[Caver 60]

From RSMO Section 571.104

(7) Any establishment licensed to dispense intoxicating liquor for consumption on the premises, which portion is primarily devoted to that purpose, without the consent of the owner or manager. The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to the licensee of said establishment. The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to any bona fide restaurant open to the general public having dining facilities for not less than fifty persons and that receives at least fifty-one percent of its gross annual income from the dining facilities by the sale of food. This subdivision does not prohibit the possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of the establishment and shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises. Nothing in this subdivision authorizes any individual who has been issued a concealed carry endorsement to possess any firearm while intoxicated;

The owner or manager clearly can give permission to carry in a bar.

In a bona fide restaurant or bar you can carry and imbibe as long as you are not intoxicated. There in lies the problem. What is intoxicated?

Another part of RSMO says intoxicated is substantially impaired. But there is no legal standard for substantially impaired. A single sip of communion wine at church can make you impaired if the LEO wants to push it.

Therefore your advice not to drink at all, and carry is good advice.

However I believe this needs to be changed. There needs to be a legal standard for intoxicated IMO.

[jpa]

Welcome to the land of the free(er?). You can carry in NV anywhere alcohol is served or sold, doesn't matter. Just don't go over .10 while carrying and you're still on the right side of the law.

[betyourlife]

Can't wait until WA changes this dumb law as well.

[keeper85]

Originally Posted by unclecharlie

Send some of those TN constituents to NC, wouldja?

I fear there is little hope in NC far to many liberal transplants.

[Caver 60]

Originally Posted by jpa

Welcome to the land of the free(er?). You can carry in NV anywhere alcohol is served or sold, doesn't matter. Just don't go over .10 while carrying and you're still on the right side of the law.

IMO thats the way it should be everywhere. The .10 sounds about right to me also.

[BlutoBlutarsky]

Finally some sanity, now I don't have to wait and try to get a seat in a restaurant near a window where I can see my vehicle. A buddy of mine parked in the first parking place in front of the Olive Garden entrance a while back. His truck was broken into and both his and his wife's pistols were stolen because of the stupid law we had.