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Old 05-06-2010, 22:27   #121
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The only flag for the USA.
I will defend it from any and all enemies... foreign and domestic. On that you can bet your ass.
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Old 05-07-2010, 06:27   #122
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If the CSA flag is a slave issue I don't know why the blacks are so against it. In New Orleans in 1860 28 per cent of the free blacks owned slaves. Less than two per cent of the whites owned slaves.
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Old 05-07-2010, 06:58   #123
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"Because of the continued, creeping monopolization...

You are wasting you time. The north won the war. The north wrote the history books. The truth is irrelevant.
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Old 05-07-2010, 07:00   #124
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As far as the Confederate flag is concerned, those who have decided that it is a symbol of hate are the same folks who have decided that the mexican flag is a symbol of heritage.
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Old 05-07-2010, 07:15   #125
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If the CSA flag is a slave issue I don't know why the blacks are so against it. In New Orleans in 1860 28 per cent of the free blacks owned slaves. Less than two per cent of the whites owned slaves.
You can not compare the total national (north and south) percentage of white slave owners with the percentage of black slave owners in New Orleans. It would be statistically dishonest to do so.
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Old 05-07-2010, 07:28   #126
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Damn I'm gonna be late to work again b/c of GT
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Old 05-07-2010, 07:50   #127
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I'm not a big believer in the sanctity of flags but if I have an issue with any of the CSA flags it is this. When I was first stationed in the South in the early '80s people tended to fly their different CSA flags and standards in remembrance of their heritage and what they saw as a simpler time. It wasn't a political statement and it wasn't an anger statement.

Fast forward 20 years and all that had changed. Because of feelings of impotency over legislators changing the various State standards and flags, public perception of the CSA flags, the changing power dynamics in the cities, and what many felt was a degrading of the importance of their culture it has become a symbol of protest.

Mind you this is what I perceived and you may disagree. Also there became this stupid justification of the CSA flags being OK because slavery didn't really play a part in the war...
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Old 05-07-2010, 08:10   #128
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The American Civil War was fought over taxes and representation in Congress. It wasn't R vs D it was Slave States vs Non Slave States ...... like the Masonic Party and the Anti-Masonic party ( talk about opening a can of worms if you really looked at that one). It was about change but as we have learned in lately Not all change is good.


And down through out history there have been slaves. Read the bible 99% of the time the Jews were someone's slave. You don't see them *****ing about Rome and Egypt for enslaving their people.
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Old 05-07-2010, 08:22   #129
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Speaking of confederate flag ignorance, I think the Georgia legislature drove that home better than I could. People complained about this:The Furball Forum

So they made it this:
The Furball Forum
Basically just saying, "we think you're too dumb to get this." They were right.



For you yankees, the new Georgia flag is the entire 1861-1863 national flag of of the CSA, with a state seal added in the middle of the stars.
A guy was attacking me and my state as being racist for liking the Georgia State Flag with the Confederate Battle Flag on it. He was glad it was changed to the present flag. I informed him the new flag he liked was the the real Confederate Flag known as the First National, and the Confederate Battle Flag he hated was never a flag adopted by the Confederacy. I also informed him of his lack of historic info., and suggested he should go back to school before he attacks or praises something of which he knew nothing about. I believe historical ignorance perpetuated by racial groups is the problem with most of the people attacking the Battle Flag.
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Old 05-07-2010, 08:26   #130
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I think marksiwel was closest to the answer with this...

"The problem with the symbol isnt that normal healthy minded people use it, the problem is that its used for all the wrong things"

Bad people have given the flag a bad name, and has tarnished it for use by those who would use it in display of their Southern pride/heritage.
Same thing has happened to the Gadsden Flag ("Don't Tread On Me").
It's now just another teabagger prop that has the same current meaning as the Confederate Flag. Angry, mostly old, white people wishing things were "like they used to be". Sorry if you don't believe that, but it's the real answer to the OP's question.

There may be genuine southern pride by those who fly it in southern states, but in Northern California it almost always means "I'm a stupid redneck who hates N---ers and Sp--cs". You wouldn't want to just walk up and knock on the door of the homes who fly that flag. It's generally seen as a 'Keep Out' sign. Fine by me--thanks for the warning.

As pointed out in this thread, the Stars & Stripes has also been used at times as a symbol of oppression and tyranny since the beginning. Don't get hung up on flags, gods, or political parties. They never stay the same.
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Old 05-07-2010, 08:27   #131
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Swiper, I was not trying to use New Orleans as a reason for loving that flag. New Orleans just popped to mind. The percentile proportion was maintained all over the south. The CSA flag haters just conveniently forget that bit of information. I know a lot of smart asses and white supremacy advocates use it and the blacks hate it and don't even know why. If people would just check their history a little closer, and not get all their information from someone with an axe to grind, they would find that nothing is as bad, or as good, as it seems.


Years ago Sky Harbor airport, in Phoenix, spent brazillions of dollars re-decorating the airport in a southwest and indian motif. They used a bunch of ancient Navajo religious symbols around the buildings.

One of the black extremists told them that if you backed off a quarter mile, stood on your head, and closed one eye, those could almost be construed as swastikas.

Bottom line was Sky harbor, instead of telling the guy to jump real high and kick his own ass, mutilated the symbols to the point that no one has anything.
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Old 05-07-2010, 08:34   #132
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Indian symbol not Japanese.
Yep Indian, my uncle was in the 45th Division in WWII and their original arm patch was a swastika and it was changed to the Thunderbird.

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Old 05-07-2010, 08:59   #133
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"Because of the continued, creeping monopolization...

You are wasting you time. The north won the war. The north wrote the history books. The truth is irrelevant.
Same old BS line... "The winners write the history so it is never true".
The allies won WW2, I suppose that history is a lie too. Hitler was really a great guy who wanted to save the world. The Japanese were merely trying to defend themselves from the colonial powers, etc.
Okay professor, enlighten us on the "truth".

There are no lies and coverups and Northern conspiracies. The real truth has been availible for years. Deal with it.

The truth is the Confederate states turned their back on the Constitution.
The Confederate battle flag was flown against only one flag in battle. The Stars and Stripes, that is my main issue with the CSA.
Southern folk are good folk, good culture... but to turn on the unity that defines this country, I have contempt.
If there was a permanant split in the nation, we would be 2 second rate nations and probably squabbling like the Koreas. And very possibly the world would be a different place, either nazi paradise or communist heaven. Because the power of the USA was a decisive factor in WW2 and the following years.
What needs to happen is this petty BS be trashed and deal with the socialist libs that have hijacked this nation. November is coming. and so is 2012.
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Old 05-07-2010, 09:43   #134
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Same old BS line... "The winners write the history so it is never true".
... and the 'winners write the history' claim isn't true unless the losers were completely annihilated and wiped out of memory. Take a look at the history anout WW2 taught in Japanese schools. It's has a somewhat different angle on historical events of that time period.

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Old 05-07-2010, 09:46   #135
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Originally Posted by Hipneckonwheels View Post
Same thing has happened to the Gadsden Flag ("Don't Tread On Me").
It's now just another teabagger prop that has the same current meaning as the Confederate Flag. Angry, mostly old, white people wishing things were "like they used to be". Sorry if you don't believe that, but it's the real answer to the OP's question.
Read democrat talking points much?
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Old 05-07-2010, 09:48   #136
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Yep Indian, my uncle was in the 45th Division in WWII and their original arm patch was a swastika and it was changed to the Thunderbird.
The Finnish Air Force used to have a swastika (rotating opposite direction of the German swastika) on the roundel of their air planes (predating the raise of Nazisms in Germany) but it was changed after 1945. However a swastika can still be seen on the Finnish presidential flag


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Old 05-07-2010, 09:49   #137
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Quote:
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Same old BS line... "The winners write the history so it is never true".
The allies won WW2, I suppose that history is a lie too.
Lie? Maybe not, but it is biased. Things sometimes get left out, things sometimes get exaggerated, details get "classified," stories get simplified, and things get told from a certain perspective.

It's not that the history books written by winners are never true, it's that they're never the whole story.
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... and the 'winners write the history' claim isn't true unless the losers were completely annihilated and wiped out of memory. Take a look at the history anout WW2 taught in Japanese schools. It's has a somewhat different angle on historical events of that time period.
Which just goes to show what we're saying. The Japanese tell a different story about WWII, as you've said, so naturally any of us reading a Japanese history book dealing with the 1920's, 1930's, and 1940's, would probably read it with a grain of salt, right? Same as with German history covering that period, because it just makes sense to do. We'd probably try to fact-check what we found, we'd read history books written by Americans, the English, the French, maybe even the Russians...we'd compare what we found in the Japanese books with what we found elsewhere.

If you were to read about the causes of World War II, you'd get different reasons for all that bloodshed, depending on if you were reading something by a Japanese, Chinese, English, American, French, German, etc, etc, historian.

So why is it when Americans read about the Civil War, they only want to listen to what the winners -- the Federal government -- tells us is what happened, and why it happened at all?
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Old 05-08-2010, 10:04   #138
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Murderers, Rapists, thieves, and arsonists. I hope every man that fought in Lincoln's army is roasting in Hell tonight.
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Old 05-08-2010, 11:13   #139
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I agree 100%!

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Because some people really really hate white people.


People hate the white people. And are RACEST!

That works for them so I shall use it now!
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Old 05-08-2010, 12:35   #140
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... It's now just another teabagger prop ... Don't get hung up on flags, gods, or political parties. They never stay the same.
Change is the only constant. And a good Glock.
Now that we've heard from the pagan left, I guess this thread is complete.

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