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Old 03-10-2012, 15:01   #381
Dragoon44
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Originally Posted by Natty View Post
There was indeed slavery under the Confederate flag for FOUR years.

Lets focus on that and blame slavery on the South.

it wasn't the Confederacy's fault they only had slavery for four years. They intended to perpetuate it. even claimed it was the cornerstone of their Govt.

But those mean old yankee's kicked their ass and destroyed their confederacy.



Interesting though how when it comes to Northern states you not only want to claim time while they were british colonies but also before they were even british colonies. While on the other hand only want to count 4 years for the southern confederate states.
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Last edited by Dragoon44; 03-10-2012 at 15:18..
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Old 03-10-2012, 15:49   #382
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Originally Posted by Dragoon44 View Post
While on the other hand only want to count 4 years for the southern confederate states.
So tell us using your own mathematical equation Dragoon, how many years were slaves held under the Confederate flag.

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Old 03-10-2012, 15:56   #383
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There was indeed slavery under the Confederate flag for FOUR years.

Lets focus on that and blame slavery on the South.

A reading of the Constitution of the Confederate States of America will tell you that one of it's cornerstones was the guarantee of slavery, in perpetuity. It even provided that slavery could never be outlawed. All one need do is read that, and that of the individual Confederate State's Constitutions, as well as any of the leading Southern newspaper editorials or many of it's religious leader's sermons to determine the reason for secession.

The mantra of "State's Rights" rings hollow when the only right the Southern States wanted to keep, that the Northern States did not, was to own another human being.
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Old 03-10-2012, 15:59   #384
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Originally Posted by Dragoon44 View Post
its part of the Neo Confederate, "But they did it too" defense.

Another is "The evil yankees made us buy em".

Apparently the Yankees understood that southerners were weak willed and impulsive and if they brought a ship of slaves into a southern port the southerners could not help themselves they just had to buy them!

Kind of like some professional activists arguing the government is responsible for inner city drug abuse.
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Old 03-10-2012, 16:06   #385
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Originally Posted by Bren View Post
That's wjhy I ask: "how did this, very recent, 'rebel flag is racist' BS start?"


The Furball Forum

Somehow I think that a black person in 1920 in any state in the Union would agree with that statement.

Last edited by clancy; 03-10-2012 at 16:07..
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Old 03-10-2012, 16:18   #386
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Could anyone here care to explain why, if slavery was not important to the South, why then was every black person available was rounded up, taken South and sold into slavery when the Army of Northern Virginia invaded Pennsylvania? If slavery was such a benevolent institution, as Grey Rider would have us believe, why were they taken in chains, and did not go willingly to the bosum of the Confederacy to escape the wage bondage of the greedy Northen Capitalists?
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Old 03-10-2012, 16:42   #387
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There was indeed slavery under the Confederate flag for FOUR years.

Lets focus on that and blame slavery on the South.

The sole purpose of the confederacy was to keep people as slaves. The states' declarations of succession spell this out very plainly. The election of 1860 which Lincoln won was interpreted by the south, with good reason, as meaning the beginning of the end of slavery for the entire nation.
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Old 03-10-2012, 17:18   #388
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So tell us using your own mathematical equation Dragoon, how many years were slaves held under the Confederate flag.

Four

Two questions,

1. How long were slaves held in those states? They did not become different states when they seceded after all.

2. How long did the Confederacy INTEND to keep slavery?
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Old 03-10-2012, 17:31   #389
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Another fact always glossed over by Neo Confederates is that the U.S. Constitution did not give slavery any legal standing. Slavery was a state issue not a Federal one.

On the other hand the confederate states made a point of enshrining and protecting the institution on the national level. Forbidding any territory or state to interfere with it.
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Old 03-10-2012, 18:38   #390
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Originally Posted by Dragoon44 View Post
Four

Two questions,

1. How long were slaves held in those states? They did not become different states when they seceded after all.

2. How long did the Confederacy INTEND to keep slavery?
1. Almost as long as they were held in the Northern states.

2. As long as it was legal and protected by the law such as the US Supreme Court decision Dred Scott.

Last edited by Natty; 03-10-2012 at 18:39..
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Old 03-10-2012, 18:41   #391
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Could anyone here care to explain why, if slavery was not important to the South, why then was every black person available was rounded up, taken South and sold into slavery when the Army of Northern Virginia invaded Pennsylvania? If slavery was such a benevolent institution, as Grey Rider would have us believe, why were they taken in chains, and did not go willingly to the bosum of the Confederacy to escape the wage bondage of the greedy Northen Capitalists?
I'll bet you never heard of the hundreds of white women who were kidnapped from the South and taken away to the North under General Sherman's orders.
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Old 03-10-2012, 19:01   #392
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1. Almost as long as they were held in the Northern states.
Almost as long as in Vermont which outlawed slavery in 1777 or main that never had slavery to begin with. or other northern states that never had slavery?

Even taking your figures of 1845 for the end of slavery in the states you mention. ( although they actually enacted gradual emancipation statutes long before that) there is a spread of some 20 years between the end of slavery by your count in the north and end of slavery in the south.

so in your world an infant is almost the same age as a 20 year old.

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2. As long as it was legal and protected by the law such as the US Supreme Court decision Dred Scott.
I think the Confederate constitution envisioned it to last longer than 8 years which was the shelf like of the Dred Scott decision.

Even the Confederates knew the Dred Scott decision was worthless. And that it would either be overturned by the SCOTUS once the southern sympathizers Justices were replaced or the Federal Govt would refuse to enforce it.
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Old 03-10-2012, 19:12   #393
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I'll bet you never heard of the hundreds of white women who were kidnapped from the South and taken away to the North under General Sherman's orders.
You mean the 400 or so Roswell mill workers that got deported most ending up in Louisville Ky? some in Indiana.
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Old 03-10-2012, 19:26   #394
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There was indeed slavery under the Confederate flag for FOUR years.

Lets focus on that and blame slavery on the South.

Waitwaiait....I thought these were sovereign States. That means they had slavery for hundreds of years from their founding under their very own flags. Your hypocrisy in cooking the books by choosing what years to consider is pathetic, literally.

And, your constant reliance on et tu quoque fallacies is an indicator of a lack a rigorous thought that seems to be unavoidable on your part.
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Old 03-10-2012, 19:27   #395
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You mean the 400 or so Roswell mill workers that got deported most ending up in Louisville Ky? some in Indiana.
That, or the prostitutes who were rounded up at Nashville, checked by doctors and had to pay for a license to do business? Or the boatloads of Southern prostitutes sent away from Federally controlled cities in an effort to combat "social diseases"? It seems that quite a few Southern women had no problem with the influx of Union troops. Hell, even Stonewall Jackson's sister "consorted" with Federal officers.

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Old 03-10-2012, 19:32   #396
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Or the boatloads of Southern prostitutes sent away from Federally controlled cities in an effort to comabt "social diseases"?
They were southern partisans doing their part to disable at the enemy.

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Old 03-10-2012, 19:36   #397
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Waitwaiait....I thought these were sovereign States.
Apparently they were not so sovereign after all. The yankess controlled them forcing them buy all those slaves.

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Old 03-10-2012, 19:51   #398
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1. Almost as long as they were held in the Northern states.

2. As long as it was legal and protected by the law such as the US Supreme Court decision Dred Scott.
That really is a ridiculous answer to Dragoon 44's question. If the Confederate States of America was indeed able to form a country, there would have been no reason to pay heed to a neighboring country's legal decisions. As far as holding slaves as long as the Northen states did, that was, at best, 70 years or so. The Confederate Constitution made slavery legal for as long as the Confederate government existed. Were it still in existence, slavery would be too, at least there and in the Middle East.
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Old 03-10-2012, 20:23   #399
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There was indeed slavery under the Confederate flag for FOUR years.

Lets focus on that and blame slavery on the South.

Blame slavery on the South? No. And no one has said they invented the institution, or were the sole practitioners of it.

Blame the South for slavery? Absolutely. The CSA tried to tear itself from the Union over that issue. We've already had the cites posted. And the CSA structured itself so that slavery wasn't just a cornerstone, but an irrevocable quality of their would-be nation. They enshrined it in their founding document, using terms and conditions that made it impossible to ever do away with the institution---I assume you've read the Constitution of the CSA. If not, I'll dig it out for you. If so, then you know this to be true.
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Old 03-10-2012, 21:16   #400
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The Furball Forum

It was under this flag that fast ships left Northern US ports, went to Africa, and packed the ship full of slaves and brought them back to the US to make a big profit. They didn't even care if many of the slaves packed like sardines died during the voyage. It was all about money for these Northern ships...

But lets not talk about this flag.
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