[Natty]

New Jersey had slavery from 1626 as a British colony until 1865 (after the Civil war over) as a US state. 239 years of slavery.

Connecticut had slavery from 1639 as a British colony until 1848 as a US state. 209 years of slavery.

New Hampshire had slavery from 1645 as a British colony until 1845 as a US state. 200 years of slavery.

[TBO]

Wow are you stretching now... sad.

[Dragoon44]

Pennsylvania had slavery from 1639 as a British colony until 1845 as a US state. 206 Years of slavery.

Pennsylvania did not exist in 1639, the Swedes founded a colony there in 1609 lost it to the Dutch in 1655. The English seized it in 1664. From 1664 until 1681 it was under the rule of the Duke of York who did not impost British laws and civil govt. until 1676.

Pennsyllvania was established in 1681.

New York had slavery from 1626 as a British colony until 1827 as a US state. 201 years of slavery.

Another Dutch Colony seized by the British in 1664.

Rhode Island had slavery from 1652 as a British colony until 1842 as a US state. 190 years of slavery.

Rhode Island was settled by dissidents from the Massachusetts bay colony and was not a formal British colony until granted a Royal Charter in 1663.

New Jersey had slavery from 1626 as a British colony until 1865 (after the Civil war over) as a US state. 239 years of slavery.

Another swedish\dutch colony seized by the English in 1664.

Connecticut had slavery from 1639 as a British colony until 1848 as a US state. 209 years of slavery.

One could probably make the case that the patent granted by the Earl of Warwick in 1831 began the date of this colony even though that colony was not established until 1636.

New Hampshire had slavery from 1645 as a British colony until 1845 as a US state. 200 years of slavery.

Was actually a part of Massachusetts, until separated by King Charles II in 1679. and granted a royal charter.

Most of the above passed gradual emancipation statutes in the 1700"s. New Jersey Passed gradual emancipation in 1804

The states that formed the confederacy ( and the border slave states) had emancipation forced on them in 1865 by the 13th amendment.

[Dragoon44]

Originally Posted by TheeBadOne

Wow are you stretching now... sad.

its part of the Neo Confederate, "But they did it too" defense.

Another is "The evil yankees made us buy em".

Apparently the Yankees understood that southerners were weak willed and impulsive and if they brought a ship of slaves into a southern port the southerners could not help themselves they just had to buy them!

[Natty]

There was indeed slavery under the Confederate flag for FOUR years.

Lets focus on that and blame slavery on the South.

[Dragoon44]

Originally Posted by Natty

There was indeed slavery under the Confederate flag for FOUR years.

Lets focus on that and blame slavery on the South.

it wasn't the Confederacy's fault they only had slavery for four years. They intended to perpetuate it. even claimed it was the cornerstone of their Govt.

But those mean old yankee's kicked their ass and destroyed their confederacy.



Interesting though how when it comes to Northern states you not only want to claim time while they were british colonies but also before they were even british colonies. While on the other hand only want to count 4 years for the southern confederate states.

[Natty]

Originally Posted by Dragoon44

While on the other hand only want to count 4 years for the southern confederate states.

So tell us using your own mathematical equation Dragoon, how many years were slaves held under the Confederate flag.

[clancy]

Originally Posted by Natty

There was indeed slavery under the Confederate flag for FOUR years.

Lets focus on that and blame slavery on the South.

A reading of the Constitution of the Confederate States of America will tell you that one of it's cornerstones was the guarantee of slavery, in perpetuity. It even provided that slavery could never be outlawed. All one need do is read that, and that of the individual Confederate State's Constitutions, as well as any of the leading Southern newspaper editorials or many of it's religious leader's sermons to determine the reason for secession.

The mantra of "State's Rights" rings hollow when the only right the Southern States wanted to keep, that the Northern States did not, was to own another human being.

[clancy]

Originally Posted by Dragoon44

its part of the Neo Confederate, "But they did it too" defense.

Another is "The evil yankees made us buy em".

Apparently the Yankees understood that southerners were weak willed and impulsive and if they brought a ship of slaves into a southern port the southerners could not help themselves they just had to buy them!

Kind of like some professional activists arguing the government is responsible for inner city drug abuse.

[clancy]

Originally Posted by Bren

That's wjhy I ask: "how did this, very recent, 'rebel flag is racist' BS start?"

Somehow I think that a black person in 1920 in any state in the Union would agree with that statement.

[clancy]

Could anyone here care to explain why, if slavery was not important to the South, why then was every black person available was rounded up, taken South and sold into slavery when the Army of Northern Virginia invaded Pennsylvania? If slavery was such a benevolent institution, as Grey Rider would have us believe, why were they taken in chains, and did not go willingly to the bosum of the Confederacy to escape the wage bondage of the greedy Northen Capitalists?

[RichardB]

Originally Posted by Natty

There was indeed slavery under the Confederate flag for FOUR years.

Lets focus on that and blame slavery on the South.

The sole purpose of the confederacy was to keep people as slaves. The states' declarations of succession spell this out very plainly. The election of 1860 which Lincoln won was interpreted by the south, with good reason, as meaning the beginning of the end of slavery for the entire nation.

[Dragoon44]

Originally Posted by Natty

So tell us using your own mathematical equation Dragoon, how many years were slaves held under the Confederate flag.

Four

Two questions,

1. How long were slaves held in those states? They did not become different states when they seceded after all.

2. How long did the Confederacy INTEND to keep slavery?

[Dragoon44]

Another fact always glossed over by Neo Confederates is that the U.S. Constitution did not give slavery any legal standing. Slavery was a state issue not a Federal one.

On the other hand the confederate states made a point of enshrining and protecting the institution on the national level. Forbidding any territory or state to interfere with it.

[Natty]

Originally Posted by Dragoon44

Four

Two questions,

1. How long were slaves held in those states? They did not become different states when they seceded after all.

2. How long did the Confederacy INTEND to keep slavery?

1. Almost as long as they were held in the Northern states.

2. As long as it was legal and protected by the law such as the US Supreme Court decision Dred Scott.

[Natty]

Originally Posted by clancy

Could anyone here care to explain why, if slavery was not important to the South, why then was every black person available was rounded up, taken South and sold into slavery when the Army of Northern Virginia invaded Pennsylvania? If slavery was such a benevolent institution, as Grey Rider would have us believe, why were they taken in chains, and did not go willingly to the bosum of the Confederacy to escape the wage bondage of the greedy Northen Capitalists?

I'll bet you never heard of the hundreds of white women who were kidnapped from the South and taken away to the North under General Sherman's orders.

[Dragoon44]

1. Almost as long as they were held in the Northern states.

Almost as long as in Vermont which outlawed slavery in 1777 or main that never had slavery to begin with. or other northern states that never had slavery?

Even taking your figures of 1845 for the end of slavery in the states you mention. ( although they actually enacted gradual emancipation statutes long before that) there is a spread of some 20 years between the end of slavery by your count in the north and end of slavery in the south.

so in your world an infant is almost the same age as a 20 year old.

2. As long as it was legal and protected by the law such as the US Supreme Court decision Dred Scott.

I think the Confederate constitution envisioned it to last longer than 8 years which was the shelf like of the Dred Scott decision.

Even the Confederates knew the Dred Scott decision was worthless. And that it would either be overturned by the SCOTUS once the southern sympathizers Justices were replaced or the Federal Govt would refuse to enforce it.

[Dragoon44]

Originally Posted by Natty

I'll bet you never heard of the hundreds of white women who were kidnapped from the South and taken away to the North under General Sherman's orders.

You mean the 400 or so Roswell mill workers that got deported most ending up in Louisville Ky? some in Indiana.

[Sam Spade]

Originally Posted by Natty

There was indeed slavery under the Confederate flag for FOUR years.

Lets focus on that and blame slavery on the South.

Waitwaiait....I thought these were sovereign States. That means they had slavery for hundreds of years from their founding under their very own flags. Your hypocrisy in cooking the books by choosing what years to consider is pathetic, literally.

And, your constant reliance on et tu quoque fallacies is an indicator of a lack a rigorous thought that seems to be unavoidable on your part.

[clancy]

Originally Posted by Dragoon44

You mean the 400 or so Roswell mill workers that got deported most ending up in Louisville Ky? some in Indiana.

That, or the prostitutes who were rounded up at Nashville, checked by doctors and had to pay for a license to do business? Or the boatloads of Southern prostitutes sent away from Federally controlled cities in an effort to combat "social diseases"? It seems that quite a few Southern women had no problem with the influx of Union troops. Hell, even Stonewall Jackson's sister "consorted" with Federal officers.

[Dragoon44]

Or the boatloads of Southern prostitutes sent away from Federally controlled cities in an effort to comabt "social diseases"?

They were southern partisans doing their part to disable at the enemy.

[Dragoon44]

Waitwaiait....I thought these were sovereign States.

Apparently they were not so sovereign after all. The yankess controlled them forcing them buy all those slaves.

[clancy]

Originally Posted by Natty

1. Almost as long as they were held in the Northern states.

2. As long as it was legal and protected by the law such as the US Supreme Court decision Dred Scott.

That really is a ridiculous answer to Dragoon 44's question. If the Confederate States of America was indeed able to form a country, there would have been no reason to pay heed to a neighboring country's legal decisions. As far as holding slaves as long as the Northen states did, that was, at best, 70 years or so. The Confederate Constitution made slavery legal for as long as the Confederate government existed. Were it still in existence, slavery would be too, at least there and in the Middle East.

[Sam Spade]

Originally Posted by Natty

There was indeed slavery under the Confederate flag for FOUR years.

Lets focus on that and blame slavery on the South.

Blame slavery on the South? No. And no one has said they invented the institution, or were the sole practitioners of it.

Blame the South for slavery? Absolutely. The CSA tried to tear itself from the Union over that issue. We've already had the cites posted. And the CSA structured itself so that slavery wasn't just a cornerstone, but an irrevocable quality of their would-be nation. They enshrined it in their founding document, using terms and conditions that made it impossible to ever do away with the institution---I assume you've read the Constitution of the CSA. If not, I'll dig it out for you. If so, then you know this to be true.

[Natty]

It was under this flag that fast ships left Northern US ports, went to Africa, and packed the ship full of slaves and brought them back to the US to make a big profit. They didn't even care if many of the slaves packed like sardines died during the voyage. It was all about money for these Northern ships...

But lets not talk about this flag.