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Old 07-18-2010, 01:18   #181
Natty
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Originally Posted by Big Bird View Post

Lincoln was a Southerner by birth BTW... Born in Hodgenville KY....
Lincoln's family owned slaves In Pennsylvania during the Colonial period (Mordecai Lincoln)

Lincoln married into a prominent slave owning family (Todds).
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Old 07-18-2010, 01:32   #182
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Originally Posted by Big Bird View Post

You want to see what a southern "guerrila" [sic] fights like...look at John Hunt Morgan's murderous raids on civilian farms...
If it makes Yankees feel better to divert away from Sherman's massive war crimes by mentioning John Hunt Morgan, that is pitifully non perspective.
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Old 07-18-2010, 09:41   #183
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Jethro, why did Union states keep their slaves after all the Confederate slaves were freed?
1.Because the Confederacy was considered to be under rebellion and therefore subject to the war powers of the presidency. Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation and its scope only applied to the States in rebellion. A presidential decree freeing the slaves would have NO legal impact on the few pro-union slave states.

2. To free the slaves in the border states that did not join the Confederacy would legally require a Constitutional Amendment. For many political reasons it was impossible to pass a Constitutional Amendment to Outlaw slavery until the end of the War.

Nothing new or profound here. Its simply the truth.
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Old 07-18-2010, 09:41   #184
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Originally Posted by Natty View Post
Lincoln's family owned slaves In Pennsylvania during the Colonial period (Mordecai Lincoln)

Lincoln married into a prominent slave owning family (Todds).
I see...so that proves?
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Old 07-18-2010, 09:44   #185
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Originally Posted by Natty View Post
If it makes Yankees feel better to divert away from Sherman's massive war crimes by mentioning John Hunt Morgan, that is pitifully non perspective.
Not if your family was one of the farms whose Morgan's Bandits burned and had women who were raped by his men.

Even the Confederacy was appalled at what he did!

Of course if we are comparing atrocities need I mention the 4 million people held in bondage for the sole purpose of the economic greed of their masters? Nahhhh Sherman was certainly worse than that...He had to at least kill 6 or 7 million southerners right? wahhhhh nonsense. You want to keep bringing up moral issues I will continue to throw that back at you. And you will have to eat the truth of it forever!
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Old 07-18-2010, 10:10   #186
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Not if your family was one of the farms whose Morgan's Bandits burned and had women who were raped by his men.
I'm sure everyone knows about the fires Sherman was responsible for.

Sherman ordered the kidnapping of 400 or so women from Roswell Georgia. Most of whom were never heard from again.

http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/n....jsp?id=h-1086
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Old 07-18-2010, 10:14   #187
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Of course if we are comparing atrocities need I mention the 4 million people held in bondage for the sole purpose of the economic greed of their masters?
Holding these people in bondage was legal under United States law and supported by a recent US Supreme court ruling. And they were held in bondage under the US flag for 90 years.

Last edited by Natty; 07-18-2010 at 10:16..
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Old 07-18-2010, 11:03   #188
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As I have said here before, slavery was the South's achelles heel. A means to an end. It is used as the cover-all excuse for the war and all its unconstitutional, illegal, and moral wrongs. The South could have kept it's slaves at any time had they just laid down their arms and returned to the "Union". Its hard to erase 150 years of lies and deception. The South was a farming society that was dependent on slave labor, right or wrong. Thousands of those slaves came from northern states after the industrial revolution made their services obsolete. They were sold to the South, not given their freedom. Then the sainted northern abolitionists wanted the South to just give up millions of 1860's dollars and change everything overnight. Worked real good didn't it?

The Confederate army did pretty well on starvation rations, defeating the best equipped and serviced army in the world consistently for over three years. It took tens of thousands of imported foregin born troops to finally destroy the constutional republic set up by our founding fathers. Ending slavery is the excuse used for destroying that republic and all it's freedoms, and the American public bought it hook line and sinker.

General Cleborne was right.

If you want a good update on the North's war crimes and the reasons for the atrocity called "The Civil War" Bird, (and any other gentle readers of this old Secessh's "ramblings") read the following books...

"War for What?" "The Real Lincoln" "War Crimes Against Southern Civilians"
F.W. Springer Thomas J. De Lorenzo Walter Brian Cisco
Nippert Publishing Three Rivers Press Pelican Press

There are more books; but if these don't change anyone's minds, there's no hope.
If you can read "War for what?" or "War crimes against Southern civilians", dry eyed, your heart is colder than a Montana winter. Bird tends to forget these people were Americans. Americans who wanted nothing more than to be let go in peace, and have the government their founders laid down, not be murdered and raped in their own beds by other so called "Americans" to defeat and destroy that government once and for all. War criminals were kept in the Whitehouse. Their pictures grace our currency.

And the South is the "bad guy"?!

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Old 07-18-2010, 15:58   #189
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Holding these people in bondage was legal under United States law and supported by a recent US Supreme court ruling. And they were held in bondage under the US flag for 90 years.
Just because it was legal doesn't mean it was moral. Hell, under the laws of the Reich Hitler legally killed 6 million Jews...
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Old 07-18-2010, 21:47   #190
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You guys do know that this thread was moved to the Furball Forum?
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Old 08-02-2010, 19:09   #191
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Just because it was legal doesn't mean it was moral. Hell, under the laws of the Reich Hitler legally killed 6 million Jews...
You really are full of it aren't you?
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Old 05-23-2011, 15:47   #192
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One thing I have noticed in any flame war about anything concerning the Confederacy is that one side quietly puts forth mountains of facts about the war and its consequences 150 years later. IE The Federal government's utter disregard of international law, the destruction of the Constitution, the loss of freedoms that were handed down by our forefathers. The ending of states rights. The end of the people's control of the federal monster. Rape. Murder. Grand scale starvation. On and on and on. The opposite side just screams YOU LOST!! GET OVER IT!! WE ENDED SLAVERY!!

Slavery existed in this country under the striped banner for over 89 years. The Confederacy existed for about five years. Slavery hands down built this country. It was ending peacefully. Warts and all. Like or not. It wasn't possible to do it without slavery. Get over THAT.

The Federal government wanted the South's vast wealth much like they coveted the lands of the Indians. They stopped at nothing and destroyed everything in their path to achieve it, and then hung ending slavery out as an excuse for the destruction and massive loss of life and treasure. States rights had to be destroyed first.

YOU. Get over THAT, and maybe I will furl my hated Southern Cross. Till then, she will fly everywhere I go. Funny how the South "lost" and Yankees mock the South's vow to rise again, but everyone seems to fear we will.....

Psssst! We already have!

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Old 05-23-2011, 15:59   #193
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And I don't see any calls to 'enslave' anyone or any calls to round up all blacks and deport them back to wherever away from our shores. That was Saint, Honest Abe's idea. Just another fact that is ignored in the We won! YOU LOST! chants. You should be glad Abe's people had him murdered. Had he got his way it would have been a very different "Union", and blacks may have had real trouble these past 150 years AND at the Federal governments hands.

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Old 05-30-2011, 07:28   #194
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And I don't see any calls to 'enslave' anyone or any calls to round up all blacks and deport them back to wherever away from our shores. That was Saint, Honest Abe's idea. Just another fact that is ignored in the We won! YOU LOST! chants. You should be glad Abe's people had him murdered. Had he got his way it would have been a very different "Union", and blacks may have had real trouble these past 150 years AND at the Federal governments hands.

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1. Lincoln was far from the first to advocate the colonization of free blacks back to Africa. The first group that I am aware of is the American Colonization Society, cofounded by Henry Clay around 1816. As someone who seems to think they know a lot about American history, why would you make such a statement?

2. Could you provide any documentation that Lincoln was murdered by his "people"?

3. Would you consider Jim Crow Laws, state sanctioned enforced segregation, lynchings, bombings, murders and the use of police dogs and firehoses against peacefully marching people benign acts of local and state governments? Would you consider Federally ordered desegragation of our Armed Forces and schools real trouble?

4. While you seem it appropriate to fly the flag of the Confederacy, a government that existed for only 4 years, why do you deem it so important to do so when the United States has been in existence for over 200 years?

5. Do you feel it appropriate to call The Civil War just that, or do you prefer to use something like Lincoln's War, The War of Northern Aggression, or some other name? As Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis, and Nathan Bedford Forrest referred to The Late Unpleasantness as The Civil War would you have disagreed with any of them, especially Bedford Forrest?

6. You have referred to State's Rights. Could you give me an example of a right that the Northern States had that the South did not? As an advocate of State's Rights, would you say it wrong for the Southern States to push The Fugitive Slave Act into law? Other than the right to own another human being, is there any other "right" that is referred to in the phrase State's Rights?

I look forward to your answers. If they are as amusing as I think they shall more questions will follow.

Last edited by clancy; 05-30-2011 at 07:41..
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Old 06-01-2011, 06:11   #195
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Ok, Gray Rider, as you are no doubt pondering how to best answer my first battery of questions, here are some more for you to consider:

1. As the slave holding states were very concerned with losing the balance of power in the Senate and Congress, do you agree with the attempts at annexing Nicaragua and Cuba, and have them established as slave states?

2. If the protection of slavery was not the driving force behind secession, why is it protected in Articles 1, sections 2, 3, 4, and 9? Why is it guaranteed in perpetuity that the right to own negro slaves will not be impaired?

3. If slavery was such a benign institution, as some Southerrn apologists would have us believe, why were Federal armies overwhelmed with slaves who escaped plantations?

4. Depending on who you read, there were anywhere from 25,000 to 50,000 slaves who willingly took up arms to protect ther right to be owned. If that were truly the case, don't you think that Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee would have been aware of it? Why was General Patrick Cleburne's career ruined because he proposed arming slaves and putting them in the ranks. Why did the Native Guard, an all black Militia unit that was formed at the beginning of the war not fire a single shot in defense of New Orleans, but immediatly go over to the Federal side?

I have more questions for you, and look forward to your answering these.

Last edited by clancy; 06-01-2011 at 18:57..
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Old 06-01-2011, 06:28   #196
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Not trying to start a flame war but why is the CSA flag seen in such a bad light by most people today? What changed in the past 20 years? I am curious because I can remember a time when it was not only seen as a symbol of hate.
Black man in the White House now.
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Old 06-05-2011, 21:31   #197
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Old 06-08-2011, 08:44   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marksiwel

Would Africa be such a mess if we hadnt had the slave trade and the Europeans had colonized it?


Slavery wouldn't have been possible without the cooperation of rival tribal Africans that were engaged in the trade against their enemies.

No white folk from Europe or the US was going to land on the continent and start rounding up slaves and be successful. Their heads would have been on sticks outside the approaches to the villages.

African nations problems are of their own making.

Ever notice that things didn't start going to **** there until AFTER the European colonial powers left?
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Old 06-10-2011, 23:14   #199
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Clancy.

For starters, I would suggest you (And all the other Confederacy haters at this site)read the following book(s). Many of your questions are answered in EXTREME detail within their pages.

The South Was Right
Pelican Press

James Ronald Kennedy
Walter Donald Kennedy

Myths of American Slavery
Pelican Press
Walter D. Kennedy

Black History as written by White Liars
Dixie Depot Books
www.dixiedepot.com


War for What?

Francis W. Springer
Nippert Publishing
Springfield Tenn.

War Crimes against Southern Civilians
Walter Brian Cisco
Pelican Press


The Politically Incorrect Guide to The South
" " " Guide to the Civil War

Clint Johnson
H.W. CrockerIII (Respectfully)

The Real Lincoln
Lincoln Unmasked

Three Rivers Press N.Y
Thomas J DiLorenzo



Slavery existed in the world for thousands of years. It wasn't "evil" until the South purchased most of the slaves north of the Mason Dixon Line. People's lives depended upon slave labor for hundreds of years in this country. Slavery wasn't "cool", "hip", "chick", fair or wonderfull. It just worked to establish this country out of raw wilderness and naked savagery. Nothing else did. Period. End of arguement. "Get over" THAT. PUH-lease!

Black slaves were imported by Yankee slavers before, during, and after the war. The South didn't have slave ships, and the Star Spangled Banner flew over said ships for decades even if Americans weren't sailing them.

See above books or any one of the above books for detailed answers to most if not all of your questions.

Kindest regards.

Gray_Rider
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"Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have planted will never be uprooted!"

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The Yankees have had over 200 years.
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Old 06-10-2011, 23:23   #200
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Oh, and for a detailed study of the hated "Southern Cross" (The Confederate Battle Flag)


Embattled Banner
A reasonable Defense of the Confederate Battle Flag

Turner Publishing Co.
Paducah Ky.

Don Hinkle

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