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Old 03-22-2011, 11:35   #201
Indiana Camper
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Thanks. I should be ok then. I'm taking a small folder, Leatherman MUT, and my ESEE4.
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Old 04-03-2011, 22:00   #202
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Another solution is to buy and fly your own airplane. For the price of a nice SUV, you can have an airplane that will do 170mph on 20mpg and you can bypass all those onerous TSA rules. Why fly in the back seat of a Greyhound when you could be flying your own sports car of the air?
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Old 04-04-2011, 05:35   #203
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I don't know what a driver's license costs these days, but how much does it cost to get a pilot's license? I have medical issues that prevent me getting a license, so how is this a solution?

Not a really practical solution for many of us.
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Old 04-04-2011, 20:29   #204
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Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
I don't know what a driver's license costs these days, but how much does it cost to get a pilot's license?
About the same as 160 boxes of Remington Disintegrators.

Dave
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Old 04-05-2011, 08:29   #205
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Originally Posted by DFWDave View Post
Another solution is to buy and fly your own airplane. For the price of a nice SUV, you can have an airplane that will do 170mph on 20mpg and you can bypass all those onerous TSA rules. Why fly in the back seat of a Greyhound when you could be flying your own sports car of the air?
With all due respect; hogwash!

As a former owner of a Piper PA28-140 Cherokee (a "cheap" small 150hp low wing) I can vouch for the fact that:

1-Aircraft are not cheap to buy (170mph?!? cheap? Cost of an SUV?!?)!
2-Aircraft are not cheap to maintain (annuals are very expensive!)
3-Aircraft are not cheap to insure
4-Pilot's license's are expensive and time consuming to acquire

Otherwise, I agree completely with the poster!

(FAA ratings: Commercial rating single-engine land & rotary wing), Private single-engine seaplane)

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Last edited by ChiefWPD; 04-05-2011 at 08:31..
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Old 04-05-2011, 09:56   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DFWDave View Post
Another solution is to buy and fly your own airplane. For the price of a nice SUV, you can have an airplane that will do 170mph on 20mpg and you can bypass all those onerous TSA rules. Why fly in the back seat of a Greyhound when you could be flying your own sports car of the air?

I hear this little voice in the back of my head saying "DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!" JMHO.

nc19
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Old 04-10-2011, 20:50   #207
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We just flew from Atlanta to Las Vegas and back. At Atlanta the TSA agent told me that I needed tsa locks on our handgun cases. We had keyed Master locks, because that was our understanding. Coming back, it was a very friendly experience (no comment on the locks). In fact, my wife had 2 rounds in a jacket in her carry on, and the agent didn't even complain. We did apologize profusely.

Of course, I worried about the guns the whole time. Too many forum horror stories.
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Old 04-11-2011, 04:42   #208
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That TSA agent needs to reread his employers own rules then. If he read them at all. Unbelievable ignorance.

From the TSA's web site:

Quote:
The key regulatory requirements to transporting firearms, firearm parts or ammunition in checked baggage are:
  • You must declare all firearms to the airline during the ticket counter check-in process.
  • The firearm must be unloaded.
  • The firearm must be in a hard-sided container.
  • The container must be locked. A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from access by anyone other than you. Cases that can be pulled open with little effort do not meet this criterion. The pictures provided here illustrate the difference between a properly packaged and an improperly packaged firearm.
  • We recommend that you provide the key or combination to the security officer if he or she needs to open the container. You should remain in the area designated by the aircraft operator or TSA representative to take the key back after the container is cleared for transportation. If you are not present and the security officer must open the container, we or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact you. If we can't contact you, the container will not be placed on the plane. Federal regulations prohibit unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) on aircraft.
  • You must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
  • You can't use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).
  • You may carry the ammunition in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as you pack it as described above.
  • You can't bring black powder or percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms in either your carry-on or checked baggage.
This kind of Bravo Sierra is precisely why I carry a copy of the TSA regs as well as a copy of FOPA SS 926A interstate travel law, and the DOJ letter on possession of firearms at NY and NJ airports. I keep these in my gun case for easy access.

Last edited by swinokur; 04-11-2011 at 05:33..
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Old 05-06-2011, 08:02   #209
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Midway, O'Hare

I will be driving from Indiana to either Midway or O'Hare...Are the rules different since its IL? Locked and a case in the trunk of course.

Has anyone checked a gun in either of those airports recently?
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Old 05-06-2011, 08:26   #210
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DOJ says FOPA covers you in route or leaving an airport. Happened in NY but I'd guess it applies to other states.

Opinion attached

IANAL

Last edited by swinokur; 05-17-2011 at 07:52..
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Old 05-06-2011, 22:09   #211
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TAG - (flying soon)
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Old 05-17-2011, 07:24   #212
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hello
i live in CT and i will be traveling to FL for vacation.

my question is will i have trouble flying out of NY?????

i have CT and FL carry permits.

will i have probs land in NY or flying out of NY ??
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Old 05-17-2011, 07:53   #213
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technically if your weapon is being transported in compliance with FOPA, no. In reality more than one passenger has been arrested in NJ and NY by either Port Authority or NYPD for weapons violations. DOJ issued an opinion that FOPA does protect you while flying and in route to the airport. The biggest point is after you have checked your bag with the airline, DO NOT take possession of it until after you get to your destination. In Revell Vs Port Authority of NY and NJ SCOTUS said the plaintiff had no FOPA protection because during an unscheduled layover he took possession of his suitcase. Leave it with the airline especially if you have an unscheduled stop in a gun unfriendly state.

it's your decision. IMO if you comply with FOPA and check in according to TSA procedures, you will PROBABLY be OK.

DOJ ruling attached

IANAL

Last edited by swinokur; 06-07-2012 at 03:53..
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Old 05-17-2011, 16:06   #214
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swinokur:

Interesting letter from the DOJ. Do we know if anyone has had problems since this letter was issued? I believe I've read of incidents taking place at the NYC airports since the date of this letter where the law regarding the lawful transport of firearms is no being honored by the Port Authority officers (they may be ignorant of it).
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Old 05-17-2011, 16:20   #215
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I am aware of only two, the above case I cited and another that was filed as a 1983 civil rights case. IIRC criminal charges were dropped by the DA at the District Court level in the 1983 case but the defendants were not satisfied and appealed on a 1983 violation and it was rejected by the Appeals court.

Revell got to SCOTUS but I posted above what the SCOTUS said. No FOPA protection because Revell took possession of his suitcase overnight. In the other if the defendants had not brought the civil rights suit and walked away they would be golden. The criminal charge against them was dropped before they decided their civil rights had been violated. The Appeals Court didn't agree.

I am too lazy to Google but google Port Authority of NY and NJ and it should pop up.

I don't know what may have transpired since. Hopefully the LEO's have been trained but look how good a job Philly did training their officers in OC law.

My solution is never go to NY and NJ. But others may not have options.

IANAL

Last edited by swinokur; 05-17-2011 at 16:22..
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Old 05-17-2011, 21:53   #216
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I'll be traveling for the first time with a handgun next month. Flying Southwest from Oakland, CA to Las Vegas. This thread has given me a ton of useful info.
One question I still have is regarding ammo. I'm not flying out with any, but I'll be buying a fair amount in Vegas and might have some left over when its time to come home. The rules state:
Quote:
Travelers must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
Does this mean that a box of Winchester White Box ammo can just be packed in your suitcase as is? Its in a fiber container specially designed to carry small amounts of ammo, right?
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Old 05-18-2011, 05:07   #217
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Yep. Do it all the time. Make sure you have no loose rounds in the suitcase. I tape the ends of the boxes closed as insurance
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Old 05-18-2011, 10:46   #218
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Yep. Do it all the time. Make sure you have no loose rounds in the suitcase. I tape the ends of the boxes closed as insurance
Yep. If you're worried about theft, pack an empty gun case and load the ammo boxes in there and lock them separately. I did that once when I loaded up on some premium ammo at Shot Show, but generally I don't.
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Old 05-18-2011, 11:38   #219
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Thanks guys. Looking forward to a smooth departure and return trip now that I'm well versed in how the process should go.
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Old 05-20-2011, 17:13   #220
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One more question:
I'll basically be taking my range bag as a carry on. Do you guys pack all your shooting gear in your checked bag to make life easy, or is some ok for carry on? I know mags have to go in the checked bag, but I'm talking about things like electronic ears, shooting glasses, cleaning supplies, etc. These things would not be barred from the plane, but may make me get some second looks from security.
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Old 05-20-2011, 17:45   #221
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IMO bad ida. The smallest amount of gunpowder residue will set off the bomb detectors not to mention a loose cartridge or brass. You will be delayed for any of these reasons. I'd pack my gear in another non firearm bag for use as a carry on.

My .02
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Old 05-20-2011, 18:09   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edrex View Post
One more question:
I'll basically be taking my range bag as a carry on. Do you guys pack all your shooting gear in your checked bag to make life easy, or is some ok for carry on? I know mags have to go in the checked bag, but I'm talking about things like electronic ears, shooting glasses, cleaning supplies, etc. These things would not be barred from the plane, but may make me get some second looks from security.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
IMO bad ida. The smallest amount of gunpowder residue will set off the bomb detectors not to mention a loose cartridge or brass. You will be delayed for any of these reasons. I'd pack my gear in another non firearm bag for use as a carry on.

My .02
Not in my experience, I'm not so sure "the small amount of gunpowder residue will set off the bomb detectors." Even if it does, you'll get checked and be on your way in minutes if nothing is found. They get lots of false alarms but still, I don't think smokeless gunpowder triggers like an explosive (but then again, I'm not an expert either). Plus you probably have to be selected to go thru that inspection. Yes, loose brass is a no-no.

If you're going to check bags, might as well check as much as you can. I wouldn't carry on a bunch of range equipment.
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Old 05-22-2011, 14:26   #223
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Range bag isn't the simplest solution as there are things that can go wrong, including forgetting something in a crease/pocket, etc. That said, there's nothing inherently bad about it and so long as you check it thoroughly you should be fine.

I used a duffle one time that I'd used for camping and thought I'd emptied it properly. I was late for the flight, and didn't realize in some little zippered pocket I'd left a really good little pocket knife. I didn't have time to mail it back to myself, so I lost it.

If you want to fly with low drama, I always recommend only using your flying luggage for flying. However, that's just a "low drama" rule and in general I'm sure you could cross over your range gear just fine with few issues ever encountered.
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Old 07-01-2011, 19:30   #224
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Tested---proven!

MAC22: I followed your advice to the letter for my trip from OKC to Denver and then back again. Smooth as silk.....all I was required to do was to open my hard case with my key so SW could put their Declaration Card inside....5-10 minutes at the most. On the way back, Denver did take my bag to the TSA room....ran it through the X-ray.....said I was good...again, 3 to 4 minutes and I was on my way...no hassle.
If you are going to fly.....take this man's advice....it works!
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Old 07-02-2011, 06:06   #225
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The declaration card should be outside the hard case. If a secondary search is conducted, there will be no way to know if the handgun was declared at check in. It amazes me the lack of knowledge on the part of airline personnel in regards to firearms.
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