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Old 07-02-2011, 07:18   #226
racer88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
The declaration card should be outside the hard case. If a secondary search is conducted, there will be no way to know if the handgun was declared at check in. It amazes me the lack of knowledge on the part of airline personnel in regards to firearms.
I've pointed this out SEVERAL times. Only ONE agent put the declaration card outside of the locked case (taped it to the outside). That simply MAKES SENSE. If they put it INSIDE, which is what they've done every other time, how is anyone to know??? Except me, when I open it at my destination. Stupid is as stupid does.
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Old 07-02-2011, 13:59   #227
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Declaration Card

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Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
The declaration card should be outside the hard case. If a secondary search is conducted, there will be no way to know if the handgun was declared at check in. It amazes me the lack of knowledge on the part of airline personnel in regards to firearms.
I printed the policy off TSA and Southwest Airlines websites and I don't see where it specifies where the card goes?? You have anything that shows that?
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Old 07-02-2011, 14:14   #228
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Here's my thinking. TSA says you are the only person to have a key to your locked hard case. TSA frequently conducts secondary searches of bags after they leave the check in counter. If you are a TSA employee who opens a suitcase with what appears to be a firearm case that you cannot get access to, and no declaration card is visible,what are you going to do if you cannot see a firearm declaration tag?

I know what I would do. Bag not going on the plane. But if I can see the declaration card and find nothing else, the baggage is GTG for being loaded on the plane.

But of course I'm using common sense and logic, something in very short supply at TSA.
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Old 07-02-2011, 14:27   #229
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I flew using this guide a couple weeks ago. Flying out of Oakland, CA on Southwest the checkin guy was very comfortable with the process. He taped the declaration to the case the gun was in and walked me over to the TSA security door. He had me wait while he took my bag in to be screened. He came out a few minutes later, laughingly asked if I was law enforcement because my range bag with mags, holsters, ammo, etc was also in my suitcase and then sent me on my way.
Flying back out of Las Vegas they were also very comfortable with the process, taping the card to the case again and then sent my bag back to TSA. They had me wait off to the side of the counter and said if no one comes out looking for me in 10 minutes to head to my gate. No one came out, I moved on and everything went well.
Thanks again, Mac.
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Old 07-03-2011, 00:36   #230
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I just returned from a business trip in which I took a handgun. The whole process was very easy for me. The last time I flew with a handgun was around 30 years ago. Back then, the bright orange label was a tag on the outside of the suitcase and nothing was locked.

I have a couple steel cases that I cable lock to the suitcase frame. The only keys are with me. Also, I used a proper TSA lock on the suitcase. The key thing is that the gun is locked in a case and is unloaded.

Prior to the flight, I checked to make sure my permits covered all states I would be in. If I could not make a connection flight, I would possibly have to take my luggage and gun to a hotel for the night. I realize the federal government may say I was OK since I was traveling, but I do not want to have to deal with the legal system if it is avoidable. If it were New Jersey, things could get complex. Years ago, I had to avoid New York once since they did not recognize my federal permit when I returned from Germany in the Army.

To avoid making people nervous, when I got to my destination, I checked my baggage in the mens room and not at baggage claim.

I carried my ammo in the box it came in and locked that in another steel case cable locked in the suitcase.

Anyway, I checked with the airlines on their website to get their policy and I verified the law in my destination state. Some states have very different laws dealing on where you may be armed and on when you may use deadly force. I found no surprises.

The place I visited has a much higher violent crime rate than my home area. I made it a point, as always, to avoid common robbery places, especially at night.

TSA seems to be happy with their x-ray systems. I did not confirm this, but they seem to be able to tell if the weapon is loaded. The whole thing was very simple and routine. Just make sure to keep your suitcase under control. On my return trip, the counter was working fast and they almost took the suitcase and I had to stop the guy to ensure the handgun was declared.
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:48   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
The declaration card should be outside the hard case. If a secondary search is conducted, there will be no way to know if the handgun was declared at check in. It amazes me the lack of knowledge on the part of airline personnel in regards to firearms.
Airline personnel get confused because if it's a long gun case, the case IS the luggage and the only place to put the declaration card is inside.

I've seen a supervisor explain that distinction to the counter person, but unfortunately the TSA regs don't spell this out:

1. Long gun case on its own - put the card inside.
2. Hard pistol case inside standard luggage - put card inside luggage (preferably attached to the outside of the hard case by tape or elastic string) but NOT inside the hard case.

Neither the long gun case nor the pistol case can have a TSA lock, but the standard luggage with pistol case inside can have a TSA lock as long as the pistol case has a non-TSA lock.

I've seriously considered getting one of those suitcase-sized Pelican cases to use as luggage after seeing a video about how easy it is to open standard roller luggage zippers with a ballpoint pen, and how easy it is to close the zipper by sliding the locked zipper ends back over the opened area. The break-in is undetectable until you miss whatever was stolen.

Last edited by rmarkob; 07-03-2011 at 09:49.. Reason: spelling
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:55   #232
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excellent points. I have never traveled with a long gun.

The zipper break in is another reason Mac advises on securing the hard case inside your luggage. I bought a small security cable with loops on each end and a good combo lock and secure to the handle tubes inside the luggage. (who needs lost keys?)

Last edited by swinokur; 07-03-2011 at 09:56..
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Old 07-04-2011, 12:59   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srprex View Post
MAC22: I followed your advice to the letter for my trip from OKC to Denver and then back again. Smooth as silk.....all I was required to do was to open my hard case with my key so SW could put their Declaration Card inside....5-10 minutes at the most. On the way back, Denver did take my bag to the TSA room....ran it through the X-ray.....said I was good...again, 3 to 4 minutes and I was on my way...no hassle.
If you are going to fly.....take this man's advice....it works!
Quote:
Originally Posted by edrex View Post
I flew using this guide a couple weeks ago. Flying out of Oakland, CA on Southwest the checkin guy was very comfortable with the process. He taped the declaration to the case the gun was in and walked me over to the TSA security door. He had me wait while he took my bag in to be screened. He came out a few minutes later, laughingly asked if I was law enforcement because my range bag with mags, holsters, ammo, etc was also in my suitcase and then sent me on my way.
Flying back out of Las Vegas they were also very comfortable with the process, taping the card to the case again and then sent my bag back to TSA. They had me wait off to the side of the counter and said if no one comes out looking for me in 10 minutes to head to my gate. No one came out, I moved on and everything went well.
Thanks again, Mac.
Glad I could help, guys.
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Old 07-04-2011, 13:00   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmarkob View Post
Airline personnel get confused because if it's a long gun case, the case IS the luggage and the only place to put the declaration card is inside.

I've seen a supervisor explain that distinction to the counter person, but unfortunately the TSA regs don't spell this out:

1. Long gun case on its own - put the card inside.
2. Hard pistol case inside standard luggage - put card inside luggage (preferably attached to the outside of the hard case by tape or elastic string) but NOT inside the hard case.

Neither the long gun case nor the pistol case can have a TSA lock, but the standard luggage with pistol case inside can have a TSA lock as long as the pistol case has a non-TSA lock.

I've seriously considered getting one of those suitcase-sized Pelican cases to use as luggage after seeing a video about how easy it is to open standard roller luggage zippers with a ballpoint pen, and how easy it is to close the zipper by sliding the locked zipper ends back over the opened area. The break-in is undetectable until you miss whatever was stolen.
Great points.
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Old 07-26-2011, 00:43   #235
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How should I go about this if I am flying with multiple handguns? I am worried I won't be able to fit 4 in one box that will also fit inside my luggage.

Long guns I am just going to ship unless someone thinks I should do otherwise.
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:13   #236
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Call your airline. They each have different rules on number of firearms per case. I know American Airlines has limits on the number of firearms per case.
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Old 08-22-2011, 07:07   #237
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Did T$A change the firearms page recently?

I guess it used to say this: (source)
Quote:
The container must be locked. A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from access by anyone other than you. Cases that can be pulled open with little effort do not meet this criterion. The pictures provided here illustrate the difference between a properly packaged and an improperly packaged firearm.
Now it says this: (source)
Quote:
The container must be locked. A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from being accessed. Cases that can be pulled open with little effort cannot be brought aboard the aircraft. Federal regulations prohibit unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) on aircraft.
So...I may have to give my key or combo over now?

Last edited by minameismud; 08-22-2011 at 07:08..
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Old 08-22-2011, 07:16   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minameismud View Post
Did T$A change the firearms page recently?

I guess it used to say this: (source)


Now it says this: (source)


So...I may have to give my key or combo over now?
No you can keep your keys. Tell them you want to be present when the bag is screened.
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Old 08-22-2011, 18:05   #239
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No matter how poorly written the TSA web page is here is the exact Federal Law:
Quote:
49 C.F.R. § 1540.111 Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals.
Title 49 - Transportation



Title 49: Transportation
PART 1540—CIVIL AVIATION SECURITY: GENERAL RULES
Subpart B—Responsibilities of Passengers and Other Individuals and Persons


§ 1540.111 Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals.

Link to an amendment published at 71 FR 30507, May 26, 2006.
(a) On an individual's person or accessible property—prohibitions. Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, an individual may not have a weapon, explosive, or incendiary, on or about the individual's person or accessible property—
(1) When performance has begun of the inspection of the individual's person or accessible property before entering a sterile area, or before boarding an aircraft for which screening is conducted under §1544.201 or §1546.201 of this chapter;
(2) When the individual is entering or in a sterile area; or
(3) When the individual is attempting to board or onboard an aircraft for which screening is conducted under §§1544.201, 1546.201, or 1562.23 of this chapter.
(b) On an individual's person or accessible property—permitted carriage of a weapon. Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply as to carriage of firearms and other weapons if the individual is one of the following:
(1) Law enforcement personnel required to carry a firearm or other weapons while in the performance of law enforcement duty at the airport.
(2) An individual authorized to carry a weapon in accordance with §§1544.219, 1544.221, 1544.223, 1546.211, or subpart B of part 1562 of this chapter.
(3) An individual authorized to carry a weapon in a sterile area under a security program.
(c) In checked baggage. A passenger may not transport or offer for transport in checked baggage or in baggage carried in an inaccessible cargo hold under §1562.23 of this chapter:
(1) Any loaded firearm(s).
(2) Any unloaded firearm(s) unless—
(i) The passenger declares to the aircraft operator, either orally or in writing, before checking the baggage, that the passenger has a firearm in his or her bag and that it is unloaded;
(ii) The firearm is unloaded;
(iii) The firearm is carried in a hard-sided container; and
(iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination.
(3) Any unauthorized explosive or incendiary.
(d) Ammunition. This section does not prohibit the carriage of ammunition in checked baggage or in the same container as a firearm. Title 49 CFR part 175 provides additional requirements governing carriage of ammunition on aircraft.
[67 FR 8353, Feb. 22, 2002, as amended at 67 FR 41639, June 19, 2002; 70 FR 41600, July 19, 2005]

Last edited by swinokur; 08-22-2011 at 18:06..
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Old 08-30-2011, 18:38   #240
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Had to fly to Chicago midway last week. Took my new g23 with me to have with me for my drive back to Florida. Thanks to Mac and his guide everything went flawless. Thanks Mac.
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Old 08-31-2011, 17:17   #241
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I followed your suggestions when I recently flew out of Tampa to Philadelphia and home again out of Philly and it went very well. TSA commented that chaining the gun case (Pelican 1170) to the suitcase handle as per your suggestion was smart. I took a Smith 642 and Ruger LCP in the same case, the ammo was also in the Pelican case in the original boxes. I flew US AIRWAYS. Thanks Mac
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Old 09-09-2011, 10:28   #242
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:44   #243
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Guys, just wanted to put in an update or two. I've received a number of PMs from folks telling me that this system is working for them very well. Also, this thread has been copied directly into a few other forums I've found while googling, and most of the feedback there seems very positive, too.

I love that GT got to be a place that has had a bit of reach out into the gun world showing that it's easy, legal, and safe to fly with a firearm if done properly.

I want you guys to know that I'm tracking feedback and have a friend who is an attorney who is helping watch these trends for us and will alert me if he sees any troubling changes. As of now, if people keep it up, I think it will make it possible for these plans to stay in place. As much as I can follow the news--and I'm no HerrGlock--but I haven't found any headlines dealing with issues along the lines of this thread.

What prompted me to write this little update was an encouragement I got while traveling for business last week. I'm up in Lake Las Vegas and was meeting with a guy and we'd had a few meetings. Over time, we'd exhausted all of the usual conversation topics and somehow we got onto firearms. From there he started talking about concealed carry permits and I asked if he had one.

One thing led to another, and at one point he said, "Do you know how easy it is to fly with a firearm? I thought it would be impossible but I was googling the other day and found this site that told me how to do it..." Turns out he had found his way here--he's not a member--and had sent the info out to all of his shooting club.

So any feedback you guys give, particularly those who travel, is very useful for those who are researching. Especially if you mention specific airlines and airports.
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Old 10-11-2011, 13:40   #244
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I flew out of St. Louis and into Rapid City SD (United Airlines) in September. Did everything stated here. Trip was without issue (both directions).

I think some peoples heart-rate went up that were standing in line, however the airline and TSA folks could care less. When I stood by TSA until my suitcase went through their scanner, they pretty much figured out what I was doing. As soon as it passed through, they gave me a thumbs-up.

Last edited by rjkobbeman; 10-11-2011 at 13:41..
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Old 10-24-2011, 17:37   #245
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Just flew from Florida to Texas and back. Going out of Florida, I had a conversation with the ticket agent about where the declaration tag should go: inside the locked case (where nobody can see it) vs. outside the locked case (even taped to the outside) but inside the suitcase. She agreed that it made sense to put it on the outside of the locked gun case, but said, "Until they tell me otherwise, it's going inside." Okey-doke!

Then on return from Dallas, I figured it would be less of a "deal"... since it was Texas. Contrary to the ticket agent in Florida, he put the declaration tag laying loose on top of the locked gun case. I mentioned to him that this part of the process is inconsistent from place to place, and that in Florida they put it inside the case. I asked if it would be better to tape it. Nope. "That's how we're supposed to do it." Okey-doke! All very friendly conversations.

But, then the ticket agent had to escort me and my suitcase to the TSA inspector. It was an older lady in the far corner of the concourse. When we got to about 15 yards from her, he YELLED, "He's got a firearm to check!" And, then I proceeded the rest of the way without him. I was wondering how many people heard him yell "firearm"??? Apparently nobody noticed. But, I thought that was sort of crazy.

The lady seemed very nice and I chatted with her a bit. She was very matter-of-fact about everything. But, the odd thing was that she swabbed the ENTIRE suitcase INSIDE AND OUT with what I believe to be an explosives detector. When I say she swabbed EVERYTHING, I mean EVERYTHING. She essentially UNPACKED my suitcase. She even opened the little zippered pockets on the sides on the inside of the case. AND, she opened all the zippered pockets on the outside of the suitcase.

At least she repacked everything fairly well. But, I've never seen that done before. I wondered if she was bored. Nobody else was down there besides the two of us. But, I figured I spent at least 15 minutes watching her swab every square inch of the suitcase AND the contents.

Last edited by racer88; 10-25-2011 at 09:08..
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Old 10-27-2011, 17:48   #246
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Just flew Oakland, CA to Las Vegas again using Southwest. The check in guy in Oakland (who was the same one who helped me there when I flew over the summer) did great and just like last time he taped the declaration tag to my hard case (this simply makes sense). But he didn't have time to take me to TSA so he asked someone else to do it. That person disappeared and a minute later a new person came out of the back and addressed everyone within about 15 feet of me by saying loudly, "Who has the firearm?! Who has the firearm?!". I laughingly raised my hand and we walked to TSA. All went smooth after that.
In Vegas, they wanted me to put the tag in the hard case. I said that didn't make sense and she said to just put it in the suitcase. I asked for a piece of tape to attach it to the hard case and she refused. I wasn't going to press the issue, so I dropped the tag on top of the hard case, locked up my bag and sent it on its way. In Oakland, the clerk asked me to open the case to see that the firearm was unloaded (I pack it field stripped), in Vegas I asked if I should open the hard case and she said no.
Its amazing that there is really no uniformity to this process.
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Old 10-27-2011, 18:06   #247
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Originally Posted by liljojo4711 View Post
you can only take 11 rounds with u?

EDIT: sorry, i read Rounds instead of Pounds haha
Yeah, if you need more than 11 pounds of ammo, I'd say you're in some deep ****!!!
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Old 10-28-2011, 05:00   #248
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Its amazing that there is really no uniformity to this process.
Actually, it's no surprise at all. It's the government... at "work."
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Old 11-19-2011, 04:40   #249
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Thanks for the write up Mac. I appreciate it.
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Old 01-21-2012, 08:31   #250
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Thanks for the excellent guide Mac! Last week, I flew out of Killeen/Ft. Hood, TX on American Airlines heading for Florida. Following your example, I had no problems at all. Airline counter staff seemed as though they had done this many times before but insisted that AA's policy is to put the declaration card inside the locked case. As others have said, this doesn't make a lot of sense, but I didn't make a big issue out of it and TSA cleared the bag OK so all was well.
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