Here is a post I found on the firing lines forum, I have been researching the same topic... a long post.....
but lots of info/data
more specifically the ti 360/340 S&W's...
"It has three major flaws:
the POS MIM parts that are in the action, giving the gun an action smoothness of 40 grit sandpaper, alright, really it feels like 80 grit. Shame on S&W for charging that much, with such poor quality parts.
and the MSRP of 988.
Even after a pro gunsmith, and over 10k dry fires, the action still doesn't feel smooth.
My gun locked up after about 2000 dry fires, and maybe 200 rounds of mainly 38 Special.
The stock grips suck. They don't cover the back strap, so you get the full force of the metal on your hand. They are small, but, they are rubber, and, they catch on your clothes, unlike wood, or nylon.
For CCW, the rubber grips don't make sense. Also, once removed, they won't be reinstalled unless you are a gunsmith.
If you have large hands, the small stock grips are too small to shoot the gun. I can't grip it with 357, and the result is the rather sharp inside edge on the trigger guard cuts my trigger finger.
The gun also looses it's really effective 357 velocity thanks to the 1 7/8" barrel, with any bullets other then 125's, which I chronographed at 1204 fps out of my snub.
Buffalobore has some excellent actual chronograph results which reflect on the loss of velocity in the short barrels.http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#357
<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:
<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Item 19E/20—158gr. Speer Uni-core, (Gold Dot) hollow cavity, bullet @ 1,100fps from a 2.5 inch barrel. It is designed to mushroom, yet hold together and penetrate deeply—roughly 13 to 15 inches in human tissue.
S&W mod. 340PD 1-7/8 inch barrel—1,015 fps (361 ft. lbs.)
S&W mod. 66 2-½-inch barrel—1,097 fps (422 ft. lbs.)
S&W mod. 65 3-inch barrel—1,172 fps (481 ft. lbs.)
S&W Mt. Gun 4-inch barrel—1,232 fps (532 ft. lbs.)
Colt Python 6-inch barrel—1,198 fps (503 ft. lbs.)
WARNING—shooting this ammo out of revolvers weighing less than 16 OZ. produces tremendous felt recoil. We recommend our +P 38 SPL ammo for revolvers that weigh less than 16 OZ., if you are recoil sensitive.
Item 19F/20—140gr. Sierra JHC bullet (jacketed hollow cavity) @ 1,150 fps from a 2.5 inch barreled S&W mod. 66. Designed to mushroom and penetrate deeply—roughly 12 to 14 inches in human tissue.
S&W mod. 340PD 1-7/8 inch barrel—1,088 fps (368 ft. lbs.)
S&W mod. 66 2.5 inch barrel—1,156 fps (415 ft. lbs.)
S&W mod. 65 3 inch barrel—1,246 fps (483 ft. lbs.)
S&W Mt. Gun 4 inch barrel—1,321 fps (542 ft. lbs.)
Colt Python 6 inch barrel—1,286 fps (514 ft. lbs.)
WARNING—shooting this ammo out of revolvers weighing less than 16 OZ produces tremendous felt recoil. We recommend our +P 38 SPL ammo for revolvers that weigh less than 16 OZ., if you are recoil sensitive.
Item 19G/20—125gr. Speer Unicore (Gold Dot) bullet @ 1,225 fps from a 2.5 inch S&W mod. 66 barrel. Designed to mushroom violently, yet hold together and penetrate deeply—roughly 12 to 14 inches in human tissue.
S&W mod. 340PD 1-7/8 inch barrel— 1,109 fps (341 ft. lbs.)
S&W mod. 66 2-½-inch barrels—1,225 fps (416 ft. lbs.)
S&W mod. 65 3-inch barrels— 1,322 fps (485 ft. lbs.)
S&W Mt. Gun 4-inch barrel— 1,445 fps (579 ft. lbs.)
Colt Python 6-inch barrel— 1,388 fps (535 ft. lbs.)
WARNING--shooting this ammo out of revolvers weighing less than 16 OZ. produces tremendous felt recoil. We recommend our +P 38 SPL ammo for revolvers that weigh less than 16 OZ., if you are recoil sensitive. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->It's destressing that the 125 grain speer load 19G/20
drops from 1225 from a 2.5" to 1109 out of the 340PD, the same barrel length as the 360PD.
However, it's impossible to find a 12 0z. gun, maybe 14. something loaded, that packs the punch of the 360PD.
Yes, you can get the same 125 grain HP at over 1200 fps, and 10 of them, out of a Glock 26, that is not much bigger, but, it weighs 10 oz more.
My solution is to install and sand the Nylon monogrip from Hogue and install on my 360PD, and bob the hammer, along with an action job.
This gives me a gun that's ok for pocket carry at night, with a Mika pocket holster, Dillon dress belt, and either a long shirt or jacket. The grip gives me enough to hold on to, at the expense of sticking out of small pocket pants, but, it's fine in most standard slacks.
It's fine in Thunderwear, since I actually sanded the grips to curve to fit my body, and hand.
Now, here's my suggestions comments and perspective.
It's REAL expensive. The ballistics you get are similar to what some of the hotter Plus P 38 loads are pulling. IIRC, Corbon was getting real near 1150 fps with their 125 grain loads, and here's the rub. You pay near twice what you would for a snubby airweight in 38, that weighs about the same. To shoot the gun with 357, at least for me, I have to change the grips, and, that gives me marginal pocket carry with light colored pants.
The 360PD MIGHT be the perfect 38 Special Plus P pocket gun, with wood bantam grips, for pocket carry. You'd be able to move 125's at 1150 fps, and use Hogue Bantam WOOD smooth grips, and be able to handle the recoil, and, have some margin of safety.
If you have small hands, maybe your set, but, with 357 in it, it's a very hard gun to hold on to, but, the little grips might work for small hand folks.
I've given thought to switching to a 3" barrel, since this would put weight in the right place, and, mainly, a HUGE jump in ballistics. However, this would make pocket carry out of the question, and make thunderwear carry a bit more difficult, but, not much, here I'm speaking of MY gun, with the Hogue monogrips in place.
I have thought about switching grips to hogue bantams on the 360, hoping I never have to use it, and carry it as a pocket gun.
In addition, for Thunderwear carry, I could go with the Model 60 S&W, which is stainless, has a 3" barrel, and comes with the wood grips that should be on the 360PD.
The weight is about 24 oz, but, the ballistic jump is huge:
1476 fps with a 125 Speer instead of the 1204 I got, and, it shines with the heavier bullets I like, sending the 158 grain at 1398, and, the 170's at 1299. When you consider the anemic results out of the 360 and 340 short barrels with the heavier bullets, one REALLY wants that extra inch.
Also, I could carry both, and use the same speed loader for both.
Or, I can just live with it and save up for something else I can Thunderwear carry that's heavier, like a Detonics, maybe a commander, or a Glock 30 or 36.
One other consideration: the 360PD drops the velocity enough of the 357 loads that it might be possible the loads would be moving slow enough to reduce the percentage
of times the hollowpoints would open, and, reduce the amount they open.
IIRC from studying some of the FBI tests, the smaller the caliber, the less reliable hollowpoint expansion is, and, it isn't all that good, maybe 60-70% in the first place.
In other words, the load, bullet and powder combinations, may have been tested for a certain velocity range, and, the short barrel may well take the bullet out of it's reliable function range.
As an example: the 40 S&W loads from Double Tap seem to be using a bullet designed for the 10MM. With a couple hundred less feet in velocity, the bullet expansion goes down from .96" to .70" or so in bgello.
From a cost perspective, if you can carry it, the Glock 26 heavier, by 10 oz, but, it will shoot 9mm 125 grain HP's at over 1200 fps, same as my 360PD, but carry 10, and, it's nearly 400 dollars cheaper. Also, due to it's longer 3.46" barrel, it may well move heavier bullets nearly as well as the 360PD, but, I haven't tested this.
Cost wise, I really wonder for pocket carry if a standard 38 Special snub, like, the 637,
for around 500 or less dollars wouldn't be a better choice then the MSRP 988 for the 360PD.
If you can carry the extra weight, the Glock Compacts are FAR better guns, value wise, and round carry wise, not to mention the ballistics out of the 26,27,29 and 30 are pretty amazing, thanks to Glock rifling. However, they aren't pocket guns, and, the 360PD really isn't either, unless you have very small hands.
I think the above flash and bang posted are two of the most important reasons for the 357's great stopping record. Along with the bullet, the flash blinds the Bad Guy, and, the noise takes his hearing."
So basically, he got a 270fps increase out of a 3" vs. 1 7/8"
1204 fps = 403 ft/lbs. energy
1476 fps = 605 ft/lbs....
Another inch could hinder CC aspects, but well worth it IMO.
This can be had in a Ti S&W,
swap out to 340/360 grips, and do something about the shark fin front site (tritium?), and you might have a nice package...