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Old 07-27-2012, 20:41   #1
orangeride
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Slight issue with blade tech holster

I just got into pistol shooting a few months ago. When I bought my g20 I picked up a blade tech string ray belt holster at the same time. It's worked fine for range duty. Last month I entered a action pistol match with some buddies and while practicing i found that sometimes the pistol was difficult to get a good grip quickly. I just picked up the blade tech dropped offset adapter. It seems like the gun is in a better spot, but now it seems like the holster wants to flop around if my draw is a little off. I'm using a 1 1/2" heavy work belt. It used to be pretty stiff, but not so much now. Would a true gun belt fix my problems? Or is this a problem with the holster?
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Old 07-28-2012, 08:36   #2
Chris Chris
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A quality 1.75 inch gun belt, cinched tightly, should mitigate your holster shift problem. Another help is when you are on the firing line for a match during the Load & Make Ready, take a second to check the holster position on the belt when you insert the loaded gun. I've used Blade Tech holsters in action pistol competition for years and like them.

Last edited by Chris Chris; 07-28-2012 at 08:37..
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:44   #3
Arc Angel
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First of all, you've got to get your, 'grab 'n draw' down pat.

If you're not grasping the pistol squarely and properly every time you reach for it, then your problem starts there. I use a number of Blade-Tech holsters; I, also, tend to draw very quickly; and I practice a lot, too. You've got to come straight up (or back) out of the holster. If you apply any side pressure to your draw, your holster will, indeed, feel like it's flopping around. More than leather, a Kydex holster (or polymer, whatever) needs a nice straight pull to bring the pistol smoothly out. I assume I don't have to tell you that your firing grip needs to already be set by the time your muzzle clears the holster - Right!

Personally, I have never found a 1 3/4" gun belt to be good for anything except wearing with dungarees. Some of the gunbelts from my youth are 1 3/4"; ALL of the gunbelts of my latter years are 1 1/2" - 1 1/2" gunbelts make for much more useful all around belts!

My current honest-to-God gunbelts are made by Wm. Tucker, and Jim Speidel (The Beltman). Tucker uses the finest gun leather I've ever seen; (Well, let's just say that it's right up there with the high quality leather G. Wm. Davis once used.) and Speidel does a good job of reinforcing his gunbelts with a very strong internal polymer strip.

http://www.thebeltman.net/

http://www.tuckergunleather.com/

By now you must realize that, 'strong work belts' really don't work!

Here's my 1 1/2" Wm Tucker rig -

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/8439/mydailyrig.jpg
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Old 07-28-2012, 16:35   #4
orangeride
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Thanks guys. That was the input I was looking for. I'll get a good gun belt and work on my draw. A lot of guys at the match last month were using full on drop leg commando set ups, or some sort of magnet speed rig for there 1911's. Neither one seems real practicle to me.
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Old 07-28-2012, 19:55   #5
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It's not your belt, it's the DOH.

I experienced the same outward flip that you have; the only way that I could prevent it was by deliberately pushing the pistol inward as it was being lifted upward...which - like a Blackhawk Serpa - just seemed like a bad idea to me.

So I just removed the DOH offset piece and put the holster back on my (Safariland 4350) belt. Problem solved.
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Old 07-28-2012, 20:18   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangeride View Post
I'm using a 1 1/2" heavy work belt. It used to be pretty stiff, but not so much now. Would a true gun belt fix my problems? Or is this a problem with the holster?
Your problem is not the holster, it's your belt. Get yourself a real gun belt (and I am not talking a leather belt here) and you'll experience a significant improvement on holster stability.

My favorite gun belt is produced by Double Alpha: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/267...lt-1-1-2-nylon
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Old 07-28-2012, 22:36   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Rules View Post
It's not your belt, it's the DOH.

I experienced the same outward flip that you have; the only way that I could prevent it was by deliberately pushing the pistol inward as it was being lifted upward...which - like a Blackhawk Serpa - just seemed like a bad idea to me.

So I just removed the DOH offset piece and put the holster back on my (Safariland 4350) belt. Problem solved.
Ain't nothing wrong (or slow) about a Blackhawk Serpa holster. You just need to: (1) have very good straight trigger finger habits, and (2) get used to it.

I would further suggest that the OP forget about, 'drop-leg holsters'. They're not really fast; they're slow! Look at any of the old photos of: Ed McGivern, Bill Jordan, or Jelly Brice. These men were genuinely fast and accurate; and none of them used a low riding holster. (Only Bob Munden does this; and his purpose in drawing a revolver is entirely different than typical self-defense work.) I think you'll find that when there's a slight crook to your elbow the pistol will actually draw faster for you.

In a personal vein: I worked out of a Blackhawk SERPA holster all afternoon today. I actually like grabbing the pistol while pushing the backstrap down into the holster. Why? Because it helps me to quickly establish the correct grip. It's not really about equipment; the right equipment helps; but, regular practice helps more.

(Another one of my personal rules: Don't train or compete with odd screwball equipment. Train and compete with whatever you would actually be carrying and use in a real street gunfight. Like most older pistoleros I have an entire barrel full of, 'once hot' older holsters. The other day I found one of those open-front magnetic things in it. I looked at it, wondered why, the Hell, I ever bought it, and then - so help me - I threw it in the garbage. Why? Because it didn't even belong in my old holster barrel.)
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Old 07-28-2012, 22:55   #8
orangeride
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All this info is helping out a ton. The next step is for me to get a dedicated gun belt. Is there really and advantage to the big double nylon belts? Or will a leather do the trick. I think it's a good idea to train with some thing reasonable.
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Old 07-28-2012, 23:11   #9
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Is there really and advantage to the big double nylon belts? Or will a leather do the trick.
Double nylon belts are not only very stiff but, on top of this and unlike leather belts, they will maintain this stiffness for the life of the belt. Having a stiff belt will help with your draw because will secure your holster well, preventing it from twisting when you pull the gun. On top of this they also offer comfort (which in my opinion is a very important feature).

I find that the DOH design is a great improvement over the standard design. By positioning your pistol closer to your shooting hand (when resting naturally at your side) it helps speed your draw. With practice, this position will shave tenths of a second from your draw and when competing, tenths of a second is all that might separate first and tenth place. If you don't believe it, watch some Steel Challenge videos...
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Old 07-29-2012, 12:30   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangeride View Post
I just got into pistol shooting a few months ago. When I bought my g20 I picked up a blade tech string ray belt holster at the same time. It's worked fine for range duty. Last month I entered a action pistol match with some buddies and while practicing i found that sometimes the pistol was difficult to get a good grip quickly. I just picked up the blade tech dropped offset adapter. It seems like the gun is in a better spot, but now it seems like the holster wants to flop around if my draw is a little off. I'm using a 1 1/2" heavy work belt. It used to be pretty stiff, but not so much now. Would a true gun belt fix my problems? Or is this a problem with the holster?
You never said what action pistol sport you are shooting. Remember, gentlemen cannot use offset holsters in IDPA if that's one of the disciplines you are pursuing.

I have my holster set as loose as possible and still retain the gun according to IDPA rules. I even used a heat gun to better mold its fit. Since there is virtually no binding with a draw, there is no holster flopping. The gun will not fall out of the holster if the holster is removed from my belt and held upside down - but it's close.
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Old 07-29-2012, 13:01   #11
Chris Chris
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You never said what action pistol sport you are shooting. Remember, gentlemen cannot use offset holsters in IDPA if that's one of the disciplines you are pursuing.

I have my holster set as loose as possible and still retain the gun according to IDPA rules. I even used a heat gun to better mold its fit. Since there is virtually no binding with a draw, there is no holster flopping. The gun will not fall out of the holster if the holster is removed from my belt and held upside down - but it's close.
Excellent point! The 'game' will often dictate the equipment. I have high ride Blade Tech holsters for my IDPA revolvers and semi-autos (I shoot SSR, SSP, ESP and CDP at either the MA or EX level, depending upon the gun) and they work GREAT. When I shoot ICORE or USPSA with a revolver I use a 6-inch GP-100 and a Blade Tech DOH holster (legal for those, not legal for IDPA).

With all of them I wear a very stiff 1.5 inch quality leather gun belt (inside the pants loops). It works. But, on the LAMR I still adjust the holster position when I place the loaded gun into the holster. That belt does allow a bit of wiggle on the holster position. The holster is only part of the carry gear. The belt is the other and they must be compatible. A poor belt can make the best holster look poor. I'm currently exploring 1.75 inch leather gun belts to achieve a more consistent position.

Your holster is a proven model and if you take the time to adjest the tension screws properly it will serve you well. The belt likely needs to be addressed.
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Old 07-29-2012, 14:24   #12
orangeride
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You guys have made a couple of pretty good points. First I do think the tension is set to tight on my holster. Also I'm not sure what kind of action pistol match it is. The club just calls it "action pistol". They also have idpa and 3gun matches on other days. The only restrictions I saw on sign ups where compd guns and guns with optical sights had to enter in the unlimited class. The corse is a mix of paper and steel, with some steel moving. You also have to move from position to position while being timed. Most stages require 40-60 rnds to be fired. I can see the benifit of the double nylon belt, but I'm not sure if I'm ready to get that hard core. I've been looking at some of the "wilderness" instructor belts. Are they any good for what I doing? I'm not sure if I should get the 1-1/2 or 13/4" .
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Old 07-29-2012, 14:58   #13
Chris Chris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangeride View Post
You guys have made a couple of pretty good points. First I do think the tension is set to tight on my holster. Also I'm not sure what kind of action pistol match it is. The club just calls it "action pistol". They also have idpa and 3gun matches on other days. The only restrictions I saw on sign ups where compd guns and guns with optical sights had to enter in the unlimited class. The corse is a mix of paper and steel, with some steel moving. You also have to move from position to position while being timed. Most stages require 40-60 rnds to be fired. I can see the benifit of the double nylon belt, but I'm not sure if I'm ready to get that hard core. I've been looking at some of the "wilderness" instructor belts. Are they any good for what I doing? I'm not sure if I should get the 1-1/2 or 13/4" .
With your description of 40-60 rounds per stage... you're not shooting IDPA or USPSA. Their rules don't allow that many rounds per 'stage'. It's probably what is commonly called an "Outlaw match". There is no negative connotation there. It just means they are shooting 'action pistol' but not following IDPA/USPSA/ICORE rules. Those can be fun. I have shot them.

Your DOH holster will be fine for those. Wilderness belts are a bit flimsey, IMHO. Your DOH will also be legal for USPSA Limited Division. Go shoot. Have fun. You should be Good To Go. After a few matches you''ll learn what adjustments you have to make.
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:22   #14
orangeride
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Thanks for all the help guys. I've decided I want an 1 1/2" inside the loop belt. Now I've got to figure out which one. I'm thinking the stiffest I can find.
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Old 07-30-2012, 13:53   #15
Chris Chris
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Any one of the major leather holster makers will probably offer one. Look for their listings under ' heavy gun belt' or something similar to that phrase.
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Old 07-30-2012, 15:00   #16
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Comp-tac makes a kydex reinforced leather belt that you can wear with dress pants or out on the range. I haven't used one yet but I plan to.

Currently I'm using a belt from the Beltman. It's thick and stiff leather...bullhide I think. I wear it every day for work with a tucked in polo shirt and I also use it for IDPA. For USPSA I use a double velco belt with a race holster, but a normal belt is plenty for IDPA.
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Old 08-04-2012, 19:57   #17
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Ok guys I've got an update. I ordered a 1.5" wildnerness belt with the stiffener, it won't be here till the middle of next week. (just in time for the next match) the good news is I went through about 350 rnds today at the range testing my new DOH. Even with my mediocre work belt I got everything working pretty smooth. It helped a ton by dropping the tension so it would barely hold the gun upside down. Thanks for the help guys.
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Old 08-04-2012, 20:17   #18
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No wonder you were having problems. There's no reason to have that much retention in a kydex competition holster.
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