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Old 03-22-2014, 19:09   #1
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Helmet-Cam shooting of man giving up to APD

http://www.koat.com/news/new-mexico/...oting/25099982
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Old 03-22-2014, 19:18   #2
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I wish there was a more complete video showing what led up to this and the actual shooting. It is obvious what the news coverage wants us to believe. I would prefer to see the full footage and judge for myself.
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Old 03-22-2014, 19:30   #3
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It looks bad, like any shooting. Until I have the full story, it's tough to just say right or wrong. I watched the video on LL and I can see why people would be bugged by it, but I also see how things look distant when in fact distances could be much shorter, guy refused to disarm, and not everything is being shown leading up to the shots.
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Old 03-22-2014, 19:41   #4
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He was a psychologically disturbed man with a prior criminal history. He had made threats to the officers for an extended time during this stand-off, leading up to this point at which time was giving up and walking down, into police custody, when the police escalated and freaked him out, and then shot him.
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Old 03-22-2014, 19:56   #5
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Quote:
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He was a psychologically disturbed man with a prior criminal history. He had made threats to the officers for an extended time during this stand-off, leading up to this point at which time was giving up and walking down, into police custody, when the police escalated and freaked him out, and then shot him.


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So you know how he was told to surrender?
Most probably he was directed not to put on his backpack.
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Old 03-22-2014, 20:01   #6
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So you know how he was told to surrender?
Most probably he was directed not to put on his backpack.
Right, so ignore his de-escalation and instead escalate and KILL HIM!!!!
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Old 03-22-2014, 20:12   #7
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There aren't enough facts here to try and judge the police and say they did it right or wrong, I'm simply curious as to what was going on that made them think to throw a flash bang. Sure would like to know the full story, and what was going through the minds of the officers as this was all going on.

The news story makes it seem like a guy was walking down all happy and calm as can be, and the officers suddenly throw a flash bang and then shoot the guy, and makes it seem like it's entirely the officer's fault. But seeing as how the news people were the ones who put the spin on it that way, I know there's so much more the story that we don't know.
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Old 03-22-2014, 20:13   #8
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Right, so ignore his de-escalation and instead escalate and KILL HIM!!!!


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And you made this summation of the events on a short video clip. You are astounding.
Don't try using your brain or independent thought that may take some effort.
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Old 03-22-2014, 20:15   #9
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Really it is not the newspeople. APD has so many questionable kills the DOJ is investigating them. We will see where that goes, if anywhere.
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Old 03-22-2014, 20:16   #10
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I see to recall reading that tasers and other non lethal means were deployed, yet he's still standing on the hillside in the vid. It doesn't support the 'they just wanted to shoot him' narrative, so I guess I have questions.
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Old 03-22-2014, 20:18   #11
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And you made this summation of the events on a short video clip. You are astounding.
Don't try using your brain or independent thought that may take some effort.
Nah, It's been an ongoing thing here in ABQ. They shot a guy with a spoon. They shot a guy with a phone. They do seem to like shooting people.
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"There ought to be limits to freedom"
George W. Bush
21 May, 1999





"You work three jobs? … Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is fantastic that you're doing that." —President George W. Bush, to a divorced mother of three, Omaha, Nebraska, Feb. 4, 2005
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Old 03-22-2014, 20:19   #12
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Really it is not the newspeople. APD has so many questionable kills the DOJ is investigating them. We will see where that goes, if anywhere.
An investigation would be nice.

Lethal force is judged on what circumstances and facts were at the time it was used


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Old 03-22-2014, 20:20   #13
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Nah, It's been an ongoing thing here in ABQ. They shot a guy with a spoon. They shot a guy with a phone. They do seem to like shooting people.
Don't know about those, this appears to be an EDP that did not follow through with the agreed upon surrender protocol.


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Old 03-22-2014, 20:23   #14
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Don't know about those, this appears to be an EDP that did not follow through with the agreed upon surrender protocol.


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edit:
I have great deal of respect for professional, compassionate and honorable LEO's. Not for the one's who consider their jobs "human waste disposal". Given the right set of circumstances anyone of us could be destitute or psychologically traumatized and on the poor end of a police encounter, even a current LEO or Vet. There but for the grace of God...
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I've got to keep control





"There ought to be limits to freedom"
George W. Bush
21 May, 1999





"You work three jobs? … Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is fantastic that you're doing that." —President George W. Bush, to a divorced mother of three, Omaha, Nebraska, Feb. 4, 2005

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Old 03-22-2014, 20:34   #15
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That's a load of crap. You don't need a full video to see that was bullsh**.


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Old 03-22-2014, 21:57   #16
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That's a load of crap. You don't need a full video to see that was bullsh**.


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You do, however, need more facts than what were given in the article.
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Old 03-22-2014, 22:08   #17
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Yeah... Full video or not. What I just saw looks pretty damn bad.

Can you say "trigger happy"?
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:04   #18
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I was a police officer for five years before transitioning to paramedicine. Anyone can search through my posts here and see that I've defended police shootings numerous times on this website. I'm about as biased as it gets towards the side of the police from a civilian perspective...

And even I think there's some serious problems with what went down in that video.

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Yeah... Full video or not. What I just saw looks pretty damn bad.

Can you say "trigger happy"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshhtn View Post
Yeah... Full video or not. What I just saw looks pretty damn bad.

Can you say "trigger happy"?
No, I can't say "trigger happy". If they were trigger happy they would have been shooting him as he laid on the ground dying.

What I saw was an unnecessary escalation that led to a death. It's a complicated case. Was the flash bang necessary? I personally don't think so. Who deployed the flash bang and how close (in relation to the closest officers) was he to the suspect? The officers closer to the suspect may not have been prepared for the flash bang and the suspects reaction to it. So do they have to take unnecessary risks with there lives because of what someone else did? Of course not.

Was the shooting justified, maybe, the guy did go for his pocket and pull something out, which is not smart when you've got multiple guns pointed at you. I couldn't tell what was in his hands due to poor video quality. Could the cops see what was in his hands? Maybe. They did wait to shoot until after he pulled his hands out of his pockets.

I'm glad I won't be on that grand jury.

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Old 04-08-2014, 22:29   #19
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Agenda Bias Agenda Bias...
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Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 05-30-2014, 06:27   #20
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As stated, more info is needed.

One thing for sure, when you have that many cops' guns pointed at you, hands up and leave your crap behind!!
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