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Old 09-30-2012, 14:07   #581
Tiro Fijo
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Another reason why it has not taken hold in the civilian world IMO is because it surpasses the discomfort threshhold for the majority of shooters, as do the hot 135gr. & 155 gr. .40 S&W loads.

The .357 SIG is a fantastic cartridge, but is harder to shoot than 9mm for the average shooter, as is the .40 S&W for that matter, when solid defense loads are used. Accuracy & performance mean nothing if the shooter cannot conquer their flinch reflex.

I will go out on a limb and say that if barrier penetration is not a factor in the equation, e.g., a civilian with a CCW, then I personally believe that any advantage the .357 SIG may have over a street proven +p or +p+ 9mm is not as great as some believe with proper shot placement.

Yes, I own a .357 SIG and love it.
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Old 09-30-2012, 14:10   #582
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Is there anyone around here with the intel behind the 357SIGs growing popularity with LE and the cumulative reasons why?

More/Less, it really is simply a fast 9 with inherently near perfect functioning characteristics in pistols. It has it's own line of 125gr bullets from most bullet manufacturers to handle the added velocity.

Yet it produces a little more recoil than 9mm and LE are still opting for it. Then again it doesn't recoil anymore than 40 (differently yes, more no). I suppose muzzle flash at night isn't much of an issue anymore with the low flash powders availble today.

I don't know what the LEO's carry, but my G-33 loaded with "gold dots" could make my day !! Love it and like to buy another ??

But still, why is LE popularity still growing with the 357SIG? Are they seeing a difference in physical wounding characteristics? We do in animals, so I suppose we do in humans too.

Is it proving to stop fights faster? What's giving this little round so much clout? Anybody know anything definitive?

In Arizona you can get virtually as much of it as you want at just about any Walmart when everything else is sold out. Though most of the Walmarts are still limiting us to 6 boxes per day.


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Old 09-30-2012, 14:52   #583
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Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo View Post
Another reason why it has not taken hold in the civilian world IMO is because it surpasses the discomfort threshhold for the majority of shooters, as do the hot 135gr. & 155 gr. .40 S&W loads.

The .357 SIG is a fantastic cartridge, but is harder to shoot than 9mm for the average shooter, as is the .40 S&W for that matter, when solid defense loads are used. Accuracy & performance mean nothing if the shooter cannot conquer their flinch reflex.

I will go out on a limb and say that if barrier penetration is not a factor in the equation, e.g., a civilian with a CCW, then I personally believe that any advantage the .357 SIG may have over a street proven +p or +p+ 9mm is not as great as some believe with proper shot placement.

Yes, I own a .357 SIG and love it.
Man, what is it with you and civilians never having to shoot through barriers? Foolish.
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Old 09-30-2012, 16:40   #584
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Man, what is it with you and civilians never having to shoot through barriers? Foolish.

Enlighten us, how many people have you had to shoot through barriers?
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Old 09-30-2012, 16:43   #585
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Enlighten us, how many people have you had to shoot through barriers?
Brilliant point.

If you can't think of at two perfectly legal and possible scenarios where you would have to shoot through barriers, you need to do some more thinking.

Last edited by cowboy1964; 09-30-2012 at 16:51..
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Old 09-30-2012, 17:13   #586
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I own two excellent Austrian 9mm and Austrian .357sig pistols that I have complete confidence in.

I'd choose the .357sig if I could only own one, for its overall greater range of application. The lab and backyard tests I've seen with .357sig caliber demonstrates to me that both bonded and non-bonded .357sig ammo has excellent hard barrier penetration capability.

It could be that most civilian self-defense scenarios don't involve hard barrier factors but defenders don't get the option of choosing the time and circumstances of the encounter. For this reason alone I find myself moving towards bonded ammo when I rely on my 9mm pistol. I don't really have a pronounced preference when I'm relying on my .357sig.
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Old 09-30-2012, 17:46   #587
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Enlighten us, how many people have you had to shoot through barriers?
How 'bout you tell me how many barriers you will have to shoot through in your future, or better yet... just tell me how your self defense scenario will unfold. I'll make it even more simple, just tell me if you will have to shoot someone in the future.

There was a GT member that had to shoot through his own windshield a few years ago. A female, also some years ago, fired her .357 mag through her car door and killed her assailant.

Often times people like you spout the same non sense, I'm a civilian, leo have to worry about barriers more than I do, blah buh blah. This simple minded approach leaves out the fact that you may never find yourself in a shooting or where the presence of a gun changes the encounter to your favor. If you do find yourself in a once in a life time encounter you should probably plan for something as simple as barrier penetration. The truth of the matter is that you may have to shoot through a barrier as a civilian... it has happened...and it will continue to happen.

You are already prepared with your sig but your midset is what will fail you.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:34   #588
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Originally Posted by uz2bUSMC View Post
How 'bout you tell me how many barriers you will have to shoot through in your future, or better yet... just tell me how your self defense scenario will unfold. I'll make it even more simple, just tell me if you will have to shoot someone in the future.

There was a GT member that had to shoot through his own windshield a few years ago. A female, also some years ago, fired her .357 mag through her car door and killed her assailant.

Often times people like you spout the same non sense, I'm a civilian, leo have to worry about barriers more than I do, blah buh blah. This simple minded approach leaves out the fact that you may never find yourself in a shooting or where the presence of a gun changes the encounter to your favor. If you do find yourself in a once in a life time encounter you should probably plan for something as simple as barrier penetration. The truth of the matter is that you may have to shoot through a barrier as a civilian... it has happened...and it will continue to happen.

You are already prepared with your sig but your midset is what will fail you.
I have 115gr JHP +p+ in my G17, and I do have concerns about barriers. I am thinking about changing over to 127gr JHP +p+ rounds.
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:10   #589
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This is a cool .357 SIG thread, even if it's 2 years old.

People always say " All handguns are poor stoppers"

I say " Unless you are talking about . 357 SIG!".

It seems to me ( and I'm no expert) that it delivers so much energy to
the bad guy(s), that they can't control the demand of their body to shut down."

Rapid incapacity, and Lightning Bolt effect! dynamic stopping power!

No other cartridge acts like it at the muzzle, except for the lighter 10mms,
but not exactly the same. And 10mm is too powerful for MOST people
and not issue to many police in numbers like the .357 SIG.

I think if Texas DPS loved the .45 ACP so much, they wouldn't have adopted
the SIG caliber.

Same for other agencies that tested 9mm, 40, 45 and settled on .357 SIG.

I don't think it is a death ray, or a magic caliber, but it might be the most
controllable with the most power available.

Unlike a comparable light .40. The .357 SIG recoils far less with its Instant
muzzle blast and rapid push backwards.

All .40s and most 10mms are not fun for me to shoot. Not so with the SIG
round, at least for 30 rounds or so in each gun.

I also like the 147 gr. loads. Very mild on recoil/blast and super accurate!

Higher cost than most other Non Magnum ammo, and the misconception that
it's only a Hot 9mm, are factors that keep it from selling better.

Having an Impressive Stopping Power reputation, and lower recoil and laser like accuracy
over the .40 S&W are the reasons it seems to grow each day.

The ONLY reason I don't carry a CZ in .357 SIG is the fact that they don't offer
a RAMI in the caliber.
Caliber Corner

I really like this video that shows the advantage of .357 SIG
over a .357 Snubbie.

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Old 10-04-2012, 16:26   #590
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Originally Posted by clarkstoncz View Post
This is a cool .357 SIG thread, even if it's 2 years old.

People always say " All handguns are poor stoppers"

I say " Unless you are talking about . 357 SIG!".
Sshh? Be quiet! We 357 SIG owners do not talk like that. If you do then more people will try the SIG, which, of course, will lead to a lot more people shooting it. That will lead to ammo shortages and higher prices.

When someone says, "It is just a hot 9mm", nod your head and tell them they are probably right.

By the way, did you notice the recoil difference between the 357 Mag revolver and the G33?
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Old 10-04-2012, 16:30   #591
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I carry .357SIG and .45ACP on all but the rare occasion. I have the upmost faith in either caliber to do what is expected as long as I do my part.
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Old 10-04-2012, 16:55   #592
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yes, the Ruger .357 recoil was on par with what I observed with my old Ruger SP101
Snubbies and hot Double Tap , Remington and Speer 125 and 158s.

pretty much goes straight up, until you pull it down.
Like this pic with it just starting to rise:
Caliber Corner
My G33 recoiled like most Glock. 357s and even the M&P Compact,
and in line with that you see in the video.


His erratic readings from 1.400 down to 1,100 or so is one reason why
I sold my chrono.

Also another reason to dispute my chrono results.

Plenty other people will chrono the exact same load(s) and get different
results.

I'd really rather get up close and nasty with the targets and tell people how
each load recoils and what accuracy, ect.


Have some fun at it.

threads like this one make we want to load up a few boxes and go create
loud BANGs with the awesome .357 SIG!
Caliber Corner
We kind of feel bad when everyone else clears out of the range, but they could
buy a Glock .357 or other gun and join in the fun!

I've been a fan of the concept and cartridge since first reading about it
in an old Mas Ayoob Complete Book Of Handguns issue, where he talked
of depts getting instant stops with sometimes non vital hits.

That trend continues today, esp. as more CCW holders and individual officers
buy the guns.

I think the reason for the high cost is ammo is that there is
little demand for it (presently) in comparison to other auto
calibers.. If more people get into it, the demand might bring
the price down.

Let your intrigue... turn into infatuation: .357 SIG!
Caliber Corner
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Old 10-04-2012, 17:03   #593
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One of the best reason for shooting .357SIG at an indoor range.

ELBOW ROOM! Nobody wants the stalls on each side of you as little cartridge roars.
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Old 10-04-2012, 21:30   #594
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To say that it is just a really hot 9mm is relative. A 9mm +P+ of the same weight (124 or 127gr) will net you ~ 1250fps or so. As long as it is loaded like it was intended to be the 357Sig is roughly 200fps faster. That ain't chicken scratch to me.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:56   #595
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I would say it is certainly a good man stopper, as long as the bullet goes where it's supposed to. But looking at it that way, so is the 9mm, 40 and 45. Otherwise, I don't think it's stands above anything else available.
This. As far as I'm concerned, it's no .357 Mag and it's a over glorified 9mm +P+ than anything else. There is nothing the .357 Sig can do that the .357 can't and in every case, do better.

I'll be staying with semi-auto's in which the first number in the caliber starts with a 4. The .357 Sig isn't a bad round but it isn't anything special either. All it does is cost more to shoot.

I put it this way, if hype alone could kill, this cartridge would be placed on the list with weapons of mass destruction and we wouldn't be able to own it as civilians.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:57   #596
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This cartridge is more about hype than performance.

It comes near the .357 Mag with only one load but fails otherwise.

No thank you, I'll stay with what I know works and doesn't cost a mint to shoot.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:30   #597
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This cartridge is more about hype than performance.

It comes near the .357 Mag with only one load but fails otherwise.

No thank you, I'll stay with what I know works and doesn't cost a mint to shoot.
But it is the only load that matters for this purpose. Also, you get all of the performance of the 125gr mag in a 9mm platform that holds more than twice the number of rounds and recoils much less than the revolver.

It is only hype if it does not do what it says it will. This one does it in the only load I would carry in the 357 mag. I really do not care if it is not equal with heavy bullets. But then, it never claimed to be.

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Old 10-05-2012, 06:13   #598
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This cartridge is more about hype than performance.

It comes near the .357 Mag with only one load but fails otherwise.

No thank you, I'll stay with what I know works and doesn't cost a mint to shoot.
I have some intersting figures for you:

.357 bullet--4 inch revolver--1450 fps--six shots--big bulky heavy platform-


.355 bullet--4.5 inch G31--1430 fps--sixteen shots--friendly carry platform

I love my G32 and G31 let me tell you. Why not give it a serious try ?
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:21   #599
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Same goes for the "better feeding" claim - more hype. A good gun will feed 9mm, 40, or 45 all day long - no problem.
It is a better feeder than those cartridges by design. The 9mm being the second best also by design of tapered case. Glock barrels will feed fired, unformed 357auto cases right off the ground. The other's not so. I'm trying to get someone to make .355 130-135 gr. DEJFWC (double ended jacketed full wad cutters) for loading in 357auto and 9x25. Very difficult to get one of the other cartridges to feed full caliber meplat bullets loaded to full length specs.
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:43   #600
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One of the best reason for shooting .357SIG at an indoor range.

ELBOW ROOM! Nobody wants the stalls on each side of you as little cartridge roars.
At the range everyone is wearing ears, right? So I gather if you shoot this load at home or in your car in a self defense situation you will need to be fitted with hearing aids shortly thereafter, (when ever the ringing stops).

My bedside SP-100 357 used to be loaded with 38+P (with ears quickly accessible). Now a G-19 seems good enough and I am more likely not to flinch in a clutch situation.
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