[Glocktrekker]

Very interesting thread-

Here is an example of the type of stupidity we are up against:

Even though I have my CWP, since I am a teacher I cannot have my weapon with me ON ANY SCHOOL GROUNDS (including my car in the parking lot because of a stupid loophole in our laws that allowed school boards to set policy on such things- if they hadn't imposed that extra verbiage, I would be able to have it locked in my car in the lot)

My choice is to either park off school grounds and leave it in my car or not carry Monday thru Friday. I am a law abiding and rule following citizen, so I choose to inconvenience myself by parking off school grounds (which always invites questions from my students and colleagues- I change the subject when it comes up...) so that I can exercise my 2nd Amendment RIGHT.

The hell of it is...anyone- and I mean ANYONE could walk into our school with a weapon and NOBODY would know- THE BAD GUYS DON'T FOLLOW THE RULES/LAWS!!!! SO....I am the one being inconvenienced, not the psychopaths. I am just waiting to see how long it will take for someone to break into my car...

[Glock21sf-miami]

Originally Posted by dnuggett

Just in case is the part of the reasoning. Do you put your seatbelt on? Is that because you know you will need it, or is it just in case? Is there a better way for you to get to work, travel etc? Or are you taking a calculated risk of getting in the car, and mitigating that risk by putting your seatbelt on? It's the same concept. It's about risk mitigation. Maybe that seatbelt we put on each day will save us, maybe it won't. 99.999% of the time we don't need it. But neither you nor I KNOW when we will need it, so we put it on.

Since I think you do NOT really carry if you do not carry 24/7 or at least 90% of the time or better, I'm going to take the idea of the seatbelt argument a little bit farther as it applies well to carrying chambered or not.

Do you think that when you are having the accident you will have time to put the seatbelt on? Along the same lines, if you are surprised by an attack, are you confident you will have the time to rack the slide, disengage the safety, etc....?

That is why I carry a gun with no safeties (Glock 30) 24/7 CHAMBERED. When I can not carry the G30, I carry an SP101...

[kda]

Always when I leave the house. Around the house, I have one within easy reach ... always.

I no longer trust my government to act on my behalf.

[sean665]

Company policy is no carry on the clock-other than that, all the time. I have to take my paperwork from the warehouse when I come in at the end of the day, to the office about a block away. I clock out at the warehouse, slip on my G17 before getting into my truck, then take the paperwork to the office.

[G8Kpr]

Originally Posted by David Armstrong

Perhaps you should try to focus on what is being discussed

You finally said something I agree with. Thank you so much for showing me the error of my ways. Henceforth I will avoid wasting my time arguing with bloviating, thoroughly self-impressed pedagogues who are primarily interested in hearing (reading) their own unsubstantiated assertions. Had quite a few like you in college - didn't get much from their ramblings either. All those years in the hallowed halls of academia have surely left their mark.

As we part company though, would you do us all the service of relating just how Clint Smith or Mas Ayoob espoused a part-time adherence to concealed carry and/or personal responsibility for our own security considering that the use of fire arms (and other tactics) in personal defense, and the associated life-styles / mind-set to support it, are their primary stock and trade?

Seems to me one of us is discussing what one does and the other is discussing what one lives...

Toodles,
Kpr

[dnuggett]

Yeah I am going to graciously bow out as well. Seems this could go on forever, and I'm really more interested in reading more interesting topics than bantering back and forth.

Armstrong- You are missing a good deal of my point, and really I'm losing interest in keeping this up. If you are ever in the Dallas area and want to go shooting, let me know. I'd be up for a nice range session and a chat over lunch/dinner.

In the mean time.... here's to hoping you get to all those risk assessments accurate, and don't end up ass out of luck.

[CodyBoy]

Originally Posted by Hugo R

Exactly! How the heck would you or could you possibly have any idea of if and when you are going to need the most important tool you ever used? Like many here, I carry 24/7/365 99.9% of the time and avoid like crazy going anywhere without it.

Cause you never know about the if and when.

HR

Guess that 1/10 th of a percent is for leap years?







100% when legal.

[CodyBoy]

Originally Posted by David Armstrong

Yes, bad stuff can happen anywhere. A tiger might just jump out of your closet and eat you. But I think you are relatively safe from that most places in the U.S.

Don't be so quick to speak.

Tiger reported loose on Bolivar Peninsula, judge says
Associated Press
Sept. 16, 2008, 4:05PM
Share Print Share Del.icio.usDiggTwitterYahoo! BuzzFacebookStumbleUponGALVESTON -- Texas authorities busy trying to clean up after Hurricane Ike have a new problem on their hands: There's a tiger loose.

A county official said today that the animal somehow left its enclosure at an exotic pets center in Crystal Beach. Animal experts are coming in to try and catch the tiger.

Galveston County Judge Jim Yarbrough put it this way: ``Turns out there's a tiger, and I understand he's hungry ... so we're staying away from him.''

Crystal Beach is on the Bolivar Peninsula. The area is one of the hardest-hit by Ike.

The news follows reports of a lion holed up in a Baptist church with its owner on Bolivar Peninsula as well as livestock and other animals roaming amid Hurricane Ike's wreckage.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6005149.html

[CodyBoy]

Originally Posted by David Armstrong

That is why I like to use the tiger attack sometimes as an example. It actually does fall within the realm of "it might happen" for many, but most folks don't worry too much about it.

And the stray dogs. Don't forget about them.

[CodyBoy]

Originally Posted by David Armstrong

Do you think having a gun on you prevents crime???

May not "prevent" it , but will most likely stop it once begun.

[Misty02]

Many of us will have to agree to disagree on this one and understand that not everyone believes in having the same level of preparedness where it comes to dealing with disaster. Disaster in this context can be the possibility of being victim of a crime, a hurricane, a tornado, a terrorist attack and a zillion other situations that can threaten our lives. Some of us are well prepared for some things while extremely ill prepared for others. Those best prepared have the highest possibility of survival. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I’m in the infancy stage of being well prepared for SD, intermediate stage for a short term natural disaster and not even in the map for a long term disaster. We set personal limits on how far we’ll go at being prepared, even if we disagree with our neighbor’s preparedness level we have to find a way to respect their way of thinking. We can try to help them think things through but we can’t force them to view things as we do. Some time those personal limits are set by their personal economic situation, amount of storage space or their belief on what is probable.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
While I believe that carrying a firearm for self defense wherever legal and allowed is a no brainer, I make an effort to understand the reasons why others that posses such a tool feel differently. There are also others that don’t possess this tool at all, some can’t others just don’t want to. It’s their prerogative, whether I agree with their reasons or not.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I’ll associate this with something I’m better at, hurricane season in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Miami</st1:place></st1:City>. Everyone knows you should have some supplies at home and increase those supplies once you know there is a possibility that a hurricane can hit us. Gas tanks in your car should never be below half during the season and filled the second you become aware a tropical storm has the potential of affecting the area. We start hurricane season with 3 filled 5 gallon canisters, increase it to at least 10 before we are under a watch. However, you’ll constantly see people at gas stations with their vehicles on E when we are already under a warning. There hasn’t been a time yet when we haven’t had to supply a neighbor, friend or family member with gas, water, or other items. However, there have also been other neighbors that have helped us all because they possessed tools we didn’t have. I can think of two things after Wilma we needed that we personally didn’t have, one was a heavy duty chainsaw to cut a 4’+ thick tree and its branches that locked us in our neighborhood and someone else that had a heavy chain and large 4 wheeler to haul it out of the way.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Some people wait for eminent danger to be upon them to prepare, others are prepared for the “what if” even when the possibilities are remote. Which end of the spectrum would you rather find yourself at? Many times I’ve read in this forum “I rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it”. That seems logical to me and applicable to a multitude of things, a gun being just one of many.<o:p></o:p>

.

[pac201]

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

...

[Jisatsu]

I carry 24/7 outside of work. No reason NOT to carry.

[David Armstrong]

Originally Posted by vafish

That's very true, for you to be able to use a gun a crime would have to be occurring.
So why would you consciously choose to remove a very effective method of responding to a crime?
Having a spare tire won't keep you from getting a flat tire, but, it does give you the best option to respond to a flat tire.
Do you only put a spare tire in your trunk when you think you will need it?

For the same reason I would only carry a high power rifle with me if I was anticipating needing a high power rifle or felt that was a reasonable respon se to a realistic need. No need to carry around a crime response if there is no crime.
Some folksw seem to think that all areas have the same chance of danger, and that one cannot predict with any accuracy where a safe zone is. Sorry, I'm just not following that. I carry a spare tire when I drive around because that is reasonable. I don't sit around in my driveway with the spare out fo the trunk and the jack ready just in case my tire goes flat.

[David Armstrong]

from G8:
Seems to me one of us is discussing what one does and the other is discussing what one lives...

Putting aside all the rather silly personal attacks, as they usually indicate that one is incapable of developing a logical response to the issues, I think that might be the point. Some folks live a fantasy, with BGs attacking them in the shower and so on. Others are a bit more realistic.

[David Armstrong]

from Misty:
Everyone knows you should have some supplies at home and increase those supplies once you know there is a possibility that a hurricane can hit us. Gas tanks in your car should never be below half during the season and filled the second you become aware a tropical storm has the potential of affecting the area. We start hurricane season with 3 filled 5 gallon canisters, increase it to at least 10 before we are under a watch.

And that is exactly the issue. You do not fully prepare for a hurricane all the time. You make a rational decision regarding what level of preparation is appropriate for different seasons. It is no different with personal safety as it relates to self defense. If you don't feel that you are safe in your own home without carrying a gun around with you, the issue really isn't if you have a gun or not. If you are always afraid of taking a shower without having your gun with you, having the gun isn't the issue. If you are afraid to step out of your door without a gun, the issue isn't the gun. My $.02

[xrmattaz]

Hey, I can't make this stuff up, really.

At almost 50 years old, including stints in some fairly nasty places around the globe, while serving with the US Navy/Marines, I've never felt truly "in danger".

That is, until just 4 years ago, right outside of Lake Charles, LA....(I kid you not) at a gas station/mini mart. Broad daylight, Saturday afternoon, when a young male intentionally tried to mow me down with his car....he actually turned around and tried again and again. We were visiting Louisiana, nothing was provoked, I'd never met or even seen this person before, but he was hell bent on killing me for some reason.

We were staying in a hotel next door, I thought I was safe walking next door to get some lunch.

[Cody Jarrett]

I usually don't carry unless I'm banking or going into a strange area or inner city.

[David Armstrong]

At almost 50 years old, including stints in some fairly nasty places around the globe, while serving with the US Navy/Marines, I've never felt truly "in danger".

FOr me it is not so much an issue of "I feel in danger" as it is "I feel safe." In a strange area or new town, or an area where there is little or limited control, one can't realistically assess the situation, so a higher level of preparation is in order.

So, other than getting run over, how was lunch?

[dnuggett]

Originally Posted by David Armstrong

No need to carry around a crime response if there is no crime.

Agreed. Unfortunately there is this thing called crime... hence the need to carry a "crime response" as you call it. It's really that simple.

Originally Posted by David Armstrong

Some folksw seem to think that all areas have the same chance of danger, and that one cannot predict with any accuracy where a safe zone is. Sorry, I'm just not following that. I carry a spare tire when I drive around because that is reasonable. I don't sit around in my driveway with the spare out fo the trunk and the jack ready just in case my tire goes flat

Now we are getting somewhere... We are talking about carrying a concealed handgun, not a high powered rifle or shotgun. Some of us believe that carrying a handgun is a reasonable alternative.

Anyone who knows much about firearms knows that a handgun is not the best choice of firearms for self defense. If one knew that they were going to be attacked... they would be more prepared. A handgun is a compromise, and a reasonable one at that. I don't sit around the driveway either, just like I don't carry a shotgun everywhere. I make a reasonable compromise, and carry a handgun.

Originally Posted by David Armstrong

Some folksw seem to think that all areas have the same chance of danger, and that one cannot predict with any accuracy where a safe zone is.

And some folks think that while they are in their "safe zone" they really are safe. Until they aren't.

[dakrat]

I dont carry at all. why carry when police is only MINUTES away to save me and my loved ones. besides, I have spidy senses that can detect danger coming...

[David Armstrong]

Agreed. Unfortunately there is this thing called crime... hence the need to carry a "crime response" as you call it. It's really that simple.

Yes, it is that simple. Crime simply is not random, routine, unpredictable or uncontrollable. Again, if one is so worried about crime that they won't take a shower without a gun, or they won't step outside without a gun, carrying a gun is not the issue.

We are talking about carrying a concealed handgun, not a high powered rifle or shotgun.

That is where we disagree. IMO we are talking about risk assessment and need/response, and the blinders that some put on when that concept comes up relating to CCW/OC.

I make a reasonable compromise, and carry a handgun.

We all make compromises, that is my point. In spite of the rhetoric tossed around, we do not carry "just in case" and I'd be willing to bet a fair amount of money that almost all of us do not carry 24/7/365. How accurate that risk assessment is varies quite a bit, but the response is still a compromise by everyone.

And some folks think that while they are in their "safe zone" they really are safe. Until they aren't.

Sure, just like everyone thinks they are safe from that tiger attack. Until they aren't.

[bno762]

Originally Posted by David Armstrong

If you can't tell the difference between a relatively safe location and a relatively bad location you have a lot worse problem than if you should carry a gun or not, IMO.

Relatively safe...what would you consider a relatively safe place?

[bno762]

Oops. Sorry David. I'll go read the other 5 pages first. Didn't realize this had been an ongoing discussion for 5 pages.

[greatwun]

If I can legally carry in the place I am in or going to, then I'm strapped. Nowadays I never go any where that carry is not allowed except for the bar every now and then.