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Old 07-08-2011, 19:44   #1
glock20c10mm
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What are the issues being seen with the current model LNL AP & Case Feeder?

Just finished reading the thread "D650 or LNL" and noticed a lot of talk about issues concerning the LNL AP. Didn't really care to hijack that thread so I'm asking here -

For what reasons have LNL presses been returned, whether set up with a case feeder or not? Are we talking major issues, or some people just couldn't get used to a different setup compared to what they may have been set up with in the past (meaning there wasn't anything wrong with the LNL, just an individuals personal issues/opinion)? Or is it that the LNL is actually pretty decent and the blue fans would die before admitting it? And, for those of you with direct reloading experience on a LNL AP (preferably a current version) whether you still have it or not, what are your pet peeves about it, even if it works generally well? Feel free to bring up pros/cons with caliber conversions of the LNL too.

I see many people claiming issues regarding the LNL AP, but little elaboration on what the "claims" are. I ask because I've been considering the purchase of a LNL, though it wouldn't be for some months yet, minimum. The sales pitch by Hornady sounds real good, but by the sounds of things around here they are liars. Then again it seems like around here if you don't go BLUE, you're a loser.

Anyway, not looking for comparisons between red and blue, but specifically, what issues are being seen with the current model LNL AP?

BTW, if it makes any difference, I intend to load: 357 SIG, 9x25 Dillon, 40 S&W, and 10mm Auto. Obviously I realize they would all work with the same shell plate.
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Old 07-08-2011, 20:21   #2
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Search Colorado4wheel (Steve) posts on the LNL issues he had. It pretty much is a summary of the issues people have had.
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Old 07-08-2011, 20:41   #3
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LNL does not have anything to support the case as it slides into the shellplate. It also doesn't have a trough to prevent the bulge of the primer from causing the case to tip and rock. The other issue is that short cases can bounce off the ramp and fall on the floor. That is what the white thing is for keeping the cases from bouncing off. Felt is to keep the cases from tipping as they go into the shellplate and over the spring. Pictures below.

Reloading

Picture of the Dillon part that is caliber specific and guides the case into the shellplate.

Reloading

Other issue is that the LnL has a really short travel of the primer punch. If it works, it's fine. If it doesn't it's a PITA. Picture of the 650 primer punch on a LnL subplate and the LnL punch in the subplate.

Reloading

Reloading

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/inde...owtopic=125569

Thread of the many to prove it's not just me. Not everyone has issues. But it's not like it's just me either.
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Old 07-12-2011, 07:26   #4
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The two issues C4W reports are issues I have also had. In fact, I now prime by hand rather than on the LNL AP.

I have also had a case feeder issue that has been well documented here: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1350902

The case feeder also has an issue with 9mm cases getting sideways at the inlet funnel at the bowl outlet and causing a back-up of cases. Cases then spill over onto the floor, etc. It's difficult to watch that area while watching the reloading process, so it doesn't get caught in time. The limit switch, unfortunately, is below the sideways case.

If I had it to do over I would go with a Dillon 650.

All of the above comments are specific to 9mm Luger reloading.
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Old 07-12-2011, 07:43   #5
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Well, I didn't go into all the issues. Only the ones I didn't fix. Your upsidedown case is a result of two things from what I can tell. First, the bowl may not be lined up properly with the chute. The cases fall too soon and hit the edge of the chute and flip over or go sideways. I had to disassemble the unit, elongate the holes between the bowl and the motor and reclock the setup so the cases don't fall as soon and get flipped by the edge. Second, the chute you describe is just poorly formed. I made a funnel that takes up some volume inside the chute and also prevented the cases from hitting the forward edge and getting flipped by the forward edge.

These two items solved my issue with that part of the casefeeder with 9mm.

Reloading

Simple solution is just to get a 650.
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:59   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glock20c10mm View Post
Then again it seems like around here if you don't go BLUE, you're a loser.
Two things:

1) Read the above responses to you
2) The part I bolded from your OP? Hey, facts are facts.




Sorry, couldn't resist a little dig. I certainly don't feel like I would only ever buy blue, In fact, I WANTED to buy a LNL, but a casefeeder is mandatory with my next press (have 550B now), but don't like hearing the problems. If I was a casual reloader, something non-blue might suffice. But I'm currently loading close to 1500 per month, and by this time next year that might double. My equipment has got to work, work RIGHT, and work long and hard.

Think I'll stick with blue, it's been good for me so far.
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:08   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glock20c10mm View Post
BTW, if it makes any difference, I intend to load: 357 SIG, 9x25 Dillon, 40 S&W, and 10mm Auto. Obviously I realize they would all work with the same shell plate.
I just noticed that. Your only going to need one complete conversion (comes with press) and one extra powder die/funnel. That is not a huge expense over the LnL conversion. It's a little more but it's not a huge thing IMHO.
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:23   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
The other issue is that short cases can bounce off the ramp and fall on the floor. That is what the white thing is for keeping the cases from bouncing off. Felt is to keep the cases from tipping as they go into the shellplate and over the spring. Pictures below.
BTW - those are fixes that C4W implemented himself, not ones that Hornady ships their presses with.

The nifty "track" for the 650 that the cases ride in? Ships from Dillon.

-StaTiK-
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:40   #9
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I just got off the phone with Horand,y they finally got the defective case prep assistant I sent back and are shipping me the replacement. A working one I hope...

Anyways while on the phone I asked if there were any plans to redesign the LNL to resolve these issues that a number of the machines have been having.... response was they believe them to be "isolated" incidences and the CS doesn't believe any redesign plans are in the works.
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Old 07-12-2011, 13:32   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxerglocker View Post
I just got off the phone with Horand,y they finally got the defective case prep assistant I sent back and are shipping me the replacement. A working one I hope...

Anyways while on the phone I asked if there were any plans to redesign the LNL to resolve these issues that a number of the machines have been having.... response was they believe them to be "isolated" incidences and the CS doesn't believe any redesign plans are in the works.
My machinist friend has done so any things to his LNL, it doesn't even look like a LNL anymore. He has reworked the case feeder as Steve describes as well as shimming something in the funnel/shute that feeds the tube to keep cases from tipping. The motor on his is quite loud as well. I can barely hear my 650 running on low.
Steve, you're running a 650 now, I am not getting complete case alignment in stn #1 & occasionally have to push the case over to get it into the sizing die. Thoughts?
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Old 07-12-2011, 13:59   #11
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Case Insertion
A. Case not getting to shellplate.
1. Wrong size Station 1 locator.
2. Wrong size casefeed adapter.
3. Shellplate bolt is too loose.
4. Dirt in shellplate pockets or damaged
shellplate.
5. Handle being moved too rapidly on
upstroke.
6. Dirt or media in casefeed track.
B. Case doesnt drop onto platform.
1. Using the wrong arm or body bushing.
C. Cases not fitting in shellplate or staying
centered.
1. Locator buttons missing or wrong size
for that caliber.
2. Primer Station locator tab (#13242)
needs to be readjusted.
3. Wrong shellplate caliber being loaded.
4. Wrong cases for caliber being loaded.
5. Debris in pockets of shellplate.
6. Rim of case damaged or shot in openbolt
gun. i.e. 9mm sub gun.
7. Cases out of spec.
8. Worn out brass from overuse or hot
loads.
9. Shellplate damaged from decap pin

Also check to see if the Case insert slide and slide cam are flush in the rear. A lot of times the Cam Screw will loosen up.
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Old 07-12-2011, 14:53   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Steve, you're running a 650 now, I am not getting complete case alignment in stn #1 & occasionally have to push the case over to get it into the sizing die. Thoughts?
I get this once in a while... Given that everything is adjusted correctly. I found it's usually a matter of cleaning the station one locator rails and giving it a little lube on the underside where is sits (grime from spent primers). I use moly grease supplied in th Dillon cleaning spare parts/cleaning kit. Also check the case that actially gets stuck 9 times out of ten you will see a minor burr. I keep my press pretty clean, all around and underneath the shellplate a primer wheel. I found that my normal cleaning and lubing technique keeps it all running real smooth.
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Old 07-12-2011, 15:25   #13
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When you get a case that hangs up mark the shell plate and see if it is the same one every time. Or the one before or after. I had it happen to me one time and found out that I had a warped shell plate.
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Old 07-12-2011, 15:33   #14
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I know next to nothing about my 650. I never have any problems with it so I don't have to know how to fix anything. I know the LnL inside out. I was always tinkering with it so I am pretty familiar with it. Ask me about a problem on a LnL and I probably have some advice on how to improve it. Maybe not fix it, but improve it.
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Old 07-12-2011, 16:35   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
Thank you all for the information so far!

C4W, I read every word of the thread at the link and every word of the thread here on GT that you linked to in the other thread. Lots of good info!

One question I have is;

Do you feel a main cause of issue(s) with the LNL AP & case feeder is ~95% limited to running used brass with spent primers still in the cases through the press, and that most issues (tipping cases, primer feed,.....) would be resolved if only new unprimed brass were assembled?
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Old 07-12-2011, 16:58   #16
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Originally Posted by glock20c10mm View Post
Thank you all for the information so far!

C4W, I read every word of the thread at the link and every word of the thread here on GT that you linked to in the other thread. Lots of good info!

One question I have is;

Do you feel a main cause of issue(s) with the LNL AP & case feeder is ~95% limited to running used brass with spent primers still in the cases through the press, and that most issues (tipping cases, primer feed,.....) would be resolved if only new unprimed brass were assembled?
I never had any primer feed issues (well anything significant from my memory). Primer feed worked fine. Primer seating was a issue. Case feeding at the primer chute was fixed with my above tuning. Cases tipping is common in 9mm because of the height of the case vs the shuttle. Bob2223 tuned his by lowering the V Block. I used some felt. It never worked that great no mater what I did. Even deprimed cases did not work as well as my Dillon did with primed cases. I hate to say it. I just know the 650 setup is designed better.

-Case specific slider that captures the case by the rim and guides it to the shellplate.
-Case specific conversion parts to guide the cases to the slider.
-Quieter motor.
-More rigid bowl, mount and nearly every part of the sorter on the Dillon is made nicer.

Jack has had several micro switchs on his brand new Dillons come defective. Nothings perfect but the design on the Dillon 650 is just a big step up from the Hornady. Most people have not owned both. To me it's obvious the 650 was designed from the ground up as a casefeed machine (it was) and the LnL was designed in stages and the casefeeder was a after thought. 9mm is the worst caliber for the LnL. I am sure the LnL would work better with the .45acp for instance. But it was infuriating with 9mm.
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Old 07-12-2011, 17:52   #17
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When you get a case that hangs up mark the shell plate and see if it is the same one every time. Or the one before or after. I had it happen to me one time and found out that I had a warped shell plate.
Good point UB, I'll check next time.
Quote:
I found it's usually a matter of cleaning the station one locator rails and giving it a little lube on the underside where is sits (grime from spent primers). I use moly grease supplied in th Dillon cleaning spare parts/cleaning kit.
Thanks BG, I'll pull it apart & see what it looks like.
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Old 07-12-2011, 18:34   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclebob View Post
When you get a case that hangs up mark the shell plate and see if it is the same one every time. Or the one before or after. I had it happen to me one time and found out that I had a warped shell plate.
This is a good point too... I actually have all stations on the shell plate marked 1 through 5 with a silver sharpie, so if I do have a issue that is unresolved (crimped primer). I take a mental note immediately as to the shell plate positions.
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Old 07-12-2011, 18:52   #19
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Thank You all for the great information so far. Certainly continue to add to it for anything else thought of.


Craig
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Old 07-13-2011, 06:21   #20
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I've had no issues with my LNL.

Keep in mind that the person unhappy with a product or service is significantly more vocal than the satisfied customer.
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