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Old 02-22-2011, 13:38   #6841
BobInTX
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Originally Posted by Silent_Runner View Post
BobInTX do you think Wolfe would have been to blame if she had been able to cry out for help? Do you think that would have made her any more responsible for Greg choosing to go to her aid? I realize the question does not apply here but I do wonder what you think. I believe the choice still would have been his to make no matter what she did.

Just so you know she has mentioned her demons several times to me recently but I agree that she is making great improvements.
No, I don't believe she would have been to blame or responsible in the slightest. Crying for help is just human nature and a survival instinct. But she couldn't. My point was that she did nothing at all to encourage him or coerce him. She would have probably thought that was why he broke cover if she had been able to do that. He made the decision to go on the convoy, and he made the decision to break cover. Nobody made him do either one of those things, unless his command ordered him to go and we just don't know it.

Greg was an exceptional man. Courageous and loyal. Wolfe has said it made no sense for him to break cover when he didn't even know if she was alive. Well, if it makes no sense, then he must have seen something that led him to believe she WAS still alive. A hand movement. A twitch. An involuntary spasm.

This was a seasoned veteran, not some 18 year-old fresh out of boot camp. I believe the reason WHY he broke cover is because he thought he could do it. He thought he could pull her back to cover without getting killed himself. Why else would he do it?

I stand corrected on the demons.
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Old 02-22-2011, 18:13   #6842
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Originally Posted by Tenngunner View Post
this!




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Originally Posted by 23skidoo View Post
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Originally Posted by Lone_Wolfe View Post
Whenever who can spare the time?
That rat ******* Suicide. I really want to put his head on a pole in the sand!
Be sure to grab Giving Up while you're at it. I'm sick of his ass too. Those 2 like to team up. Silent_Runner's right about Nightmares, but I think he'll be harder to get rid of.



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Wolfe I think that going back and forth like you talk about is quite normal and I bet your shrink agrees. You seem to be getting a lot of the crap in your head sorted out so keep working hard at it.

You may be average in many ways on the outside but what is inside of you is what makes you special. Not just anyone could have lived that day and gone on to both save a life and inspire so many others.
Yep, my shrink does agree. He's told me several times when I felt like I was going backwards that recovery isn't a one-way trip. He's real happy with what's been happening the last few weeks, but I can tell he's waiting for me to take my usual 2 steps back after gaining a little ground. The only difference is he said the other day that I've gained more ground lately than I had in a few months combined, maybe more than in a year.

I'll just say that if I'm special then I'm in good company here. I think anyone in here would have done the same thing for Skidoo if they'd had the info they needed to do it. I just happened to be the one who had his address and pictures of his house, knew when he usually got online, etc. As for the inspiration, just look at what's being done for me even more than what I'm doing for others.



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Originally Posted by BobInTX View Post
No, I don't believe she would have been to blame or responsible in the slightest. Crying for help is just human nature and a survival instinct. But she couldn't. My point was that she did nothing at all to encourage him or coerce him. She would have probably thought that was why he broke cover if she had been able to do that. He made the decision to go on the convoy, and he made the decision to break cover. Nobody made him do either one of those things, unless his command ordered him to go and we just don't know it.

Greg was an exceptional man. Courageous and loyal. Wolfe has said it made no sense for him to break cover when he didn't even know if she was alive. Well, if it makes no sense, then he must have seen something that led him to believe she WAS still alive. A hand movement. A twitch. An involuntary spasm.

This was a seasoned veteran, not some 18 year-old fresh out of boot camp. I believe the reason WHY he broke cover is because he thought he could do it. He thought he could pull her back to cover without getting killed himself. Why else would he do it?

I stand corrected on the demons.
I know what you're saying Bob, I think I'd blame myself even more if I felt like he came out because he heard me scream or call to him. I'd wonder if he would have stayed down had I been still. But since I was still and unconscious I know the answer to that, he came out anyway.

On this subject I wonder if it wasn't that Greg saw something that made him know I was alive, but that he didn't know I was dead. Even if he didn't know if I was dead or dying I still think he was insane to run out when he did. I just don't see how he could have thought he'd have a chance under those circumstances. That's a big part of why I constantly want to ask him "What were you thinking?!?!?" I agree that he was exceptional, but at times I question his sanity. But then I've questioned mine more than once for going to Afghanistan at all.
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:22   #6843
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No, I don't believe she would have been to blame or responsible in the slightest. Crying for help is just human nature and a survival instinct. But she couldn't. My point was that she did nothing at all to encourage him or coerce him. She would have probably thought that was why he broke cover if she had been able to do that. He made the decision to go on the convoy, and he made the decision to break cover. Nobody made him do either one of those things, unless his command ordered him to go and we just don't know it.

Greg was an exceptional man. Courageous and loyal. Wolfe has said it made no sense for him to break cover when he didn't even know if she was alive. Well, if it makes no sense, then he must have seen something that led him to believe she WAS still alive. A hand movement. A twitch. An involuntary spasm.

This was a seasoned veteran, not some 18 year-old fresh out of boot camp. I believe the reason WHY he broke cover is because he thought he could do it. He thought he could pull her back to cover without getting killed himself. Why else would he do it?

I stand corrected on the demons.
Thank you for that. I agree that it would not have been her fault even if she had called out to him because he was still the one who made the choice whether or not to respond. But I do understand why having called out to him might have made her feel worse now. As it is the choice was made by Greg whethere or not he had any reason to believe she was alive. Perhaps Wolfe is right when she wonders if he moved simply because he was not sure she was dead. As a nurse I have to act on the premise that a patient is alive until we confirm otherwise.

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Yep, my shrink does agree. He's told me several times when I felt like I was going backwards that recovery isn't a one-way trip. He's real happy with what's been happening the last few weeks, but I can tell he's waiting for me to take my usual 2 steps back after gaining a little ground. The only difference is he said the other day that I've gained more ground lately than I had in a few months combined, maybe more than in a year.
Wolfe I have questioned your sanity for going to Afghanistan also but you already know that.

Your shrink is right about recovery taking time and not always going smoothly as you have found out so well for yourself. I wish he was more optimistic about things now. I would like to think you are past the worst of the setbacks since you have have so much progress lately but if you are not just remember we are still here for you.
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I mean, Iím mentally ill, not mentally deficient! There's a difference between psycho and stupid.
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Old 02-23-2011, 13:57   #6844
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Thank you! I trimmed one stalk back and will the other as soon as it droops too. Here's hoping for a re-bloom. And here's a couple more pics of the last day in bloom.

Okie Memorial Area
Okie Memorial Area

Very nice pics! Thank you.



I still question and blame myself, sometimes worse than others, but it doesn't seem to knock me down like it did. Right now I'm alternating between questioning Greg, God, myself, and anybody who might have had any part in me being able to go get shot that day. It seems there are days I'd go through the phone book looking for people if I had one here.

I hate that he died, I've cussed him out and screamed at him more than once over that.

Keep on screaming. You're working it out.



He gets me to thinking what a relief that would be and all that crap, then I have to tell him to **** OFF all over again. Just recently I was talking privately to someone and mentioned that my doc said he didn't want to keep my on Xanax indefinitely, and I was asked what my doc might use instead. Without thinking about it I wrote "Maybe a 9mm". I doubt the person reading it was amused.

I just want that one gone because he has this knack for picking just the right moment to show himself. But then they all do.

You've come too far. He's bothering you because he knows he's losing.


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Be sure to grab Giving Up while you're at it. I'm sick of his ass too. Those 2 like to team up. Silent_Runner's right about Nightmares, but I think he'll be harder to get rid of.

Giving up, Am I really going to have to come over there and put your head on a stick again?



Yep, my shrink does agree. He's told me several times when I felt like I was going backwards that recovery isn't a one-way trip. He's real happy with what's been happening the last few weeks, but I can tell he's waiting for me to take my usual 2 steps back after gaining a little ground. The only difference is he said the other day that I've gained more ground lately than I had in a few months combined, maybe more than in a year.

I know what you're saying Bob, I think I'd blame myself even more if I felt like he came out because he heard me scream or call to him. I'd wonder if he would have stayed down had I been still. But since I was still and unconscious I know the answer to that, he came out anyway.

On this subject I wonder if it wasn't that Greg saw something that made him know I was alive, but that he didn't know I was dead. Even if he didn't know if I was dead or dying I still think he was insane to run out when he did. I just don't see how he could have thought he'd have a chance under those circumstances. That's a big part of why I constantly want to ask him "What were you thinking?!?!?" I agree that he was exceptional, but at times I question his sanity. But then I've questioned mine more than once for going to Afghanistan at all.
If that was Greg on the ground shot, why would you save him? I know you don't know if you would have, but let's say you did. What are some possible reasons that you would risk your life?
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Old 02-23-2011, 14:55   #6845
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Hey LW how's it going? You know the arse doctor, the terrorist, the weather.



Getting that out of the way I hope you and Mandy are having a good evening!!!!!!!!!
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Old 02-23-2011, 17:27   #6846
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Very nice pics! Thank you.

Thank you. Hereís one from a couple days later. As you can see this round is done, but hopefully it'll rebloom. Mrs Bob, I hope you enjoyed this round, I've already trimmed one stalk and will get the other in a day or two. How much should I water while waiting to see?
Okie Memorial Area

Keep on screaming. You're working it out.
I didnít feel much like screaming today, except and my doc and terrorist. Guess itís a good thing I didnít seem my shrink today. I'm sure I'll make it up to you another day.

You've come too far. He's bothering you because he knows he's losing.
Trouble is, he picks just the right times to bother me and I find myself listeningÖ.

Giving up, Am I really going to have to come over there and put your head on a stick again?
I wish you would. Put it so far onto that stick no one can get it back off!

If that was Greg on the ground shot, why would you save him? I know you don't know if you would have, but let's say you did. What are some possible reasons that you would risk your life?
My brain has been shut down all evening from the meds, I canít get a coherent thought out about this one. Iíll try again tomorrow.



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Originally Posted by Tenngunner View Post
Hey LW how's it going? You know the arse doctor, the terrorist, the weather.



Getting that out of the way I hope you and Mandy are having a good evening!!!!!!!!! : wavey:
Dr Arse is wellÖ.. an arse. I had to see him today and while I was there I asked about the steroid injections my regular doc said I need about now. Dr Arse said he didnít want to do anything like that, even though my regular doc had talked to him about doing it. I asked him why and he didnít seem to have a good answer, except to say that he could see Iíd had to come in with breathing and other problems quite a bit after the last injections. I agreed that was true, but pointed out that my physical therapist and doc agreed that I improved a lot for a couple of months afterward, and now Iím losing some ground in therapy. Arse grumbled some crap about me taking up too much time at the hospital, so I asked him if the real problem he had with me was that I was there a lot and he had to do some work. He didnít care for that, but couldnít deny it.

He finally said he didnít approve of keeping ďat riskĒ patients in the war zone. I asked him how much more of a risk I was than anyone else on this base, or worse, anyone that goes outside the wire. He pointed out the time I stopped breathing shortly after I got the last set of steroid injections, so I asked him what my docís recommendation was about that. He said the recommendation was to lower the dose by as much as half. Then he started talking about some other bad instances I had, which I pointed out were all several months or more old, and I wasnít much more ďat riskĒ that the guy hobbling down the hall on crutches. Maybe less, in fact, because I could get to a bunker quicker. Sure Iíd be hurting afterward, Iíd still be in the bunker. He finally did calm down a little and said heíd reconsider doing the steroid injections instead of making me wait a month. Then he asked what I would do if I had any trouble breathing afterward. I told him Iíd come in and make him of the night doc earn their keep.

My terrorist had to let up some today, for some reason I couldnít give any resistance to any of the pushing or pulling exercises and stretching hurt more than normal. That happens every once in a while, I just seem to be back at square one. It normally passes in a few days, but isnít fun while it lasts. At least my terrorist recognized it right away and didnít make me cry too much. The weather was really nice again today. Low 70ís during the day with just a little dust in the air. Mandyís doing OK, sheís still drying out from the recent soaking I gave her and probably still plotting against me.



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Originally Posted by Silent_Runner View Post
Wolfe I have questioned your sanity for going to Afghanistan also but you already know that.

Your shrink is right about recovery taking time and not always going smoothly as you have found out so well for yourself. I wish he was more optimistic about things now. I would like to think you are past the worst of the setbacks since you have have so much progress lately but if you are not just remember we are still here for you.
Woman, you questioned my sanity long before that, donít even try to convince anyone that was the first time!

I said something to that effect to my shrink myself, asked if he was planting a suggestion to have a setback in my head. He said he know that was always there, but he thought it was more important for me to not be blindsided when one hit after seemingly feeling better for longer than Iím used to. Normally when I go numb from a lot of crap trying to come out itís real painful when the numbness wear off because the crap in my head just overpowers it. This time Iím still pretty numb, but when I can feel anything itís just an empty feeling, kind of dead inside. I donít know what to make of it, but my shrink seems happy about it, so I guess I am too.
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To those who have made the ultimate sacrifice while defending American freedom, you will not be forgotten.

RIP my friends Greg and Florence, see you again on the other side.
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Old 02-23-2011, 22:40   #6847
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Wolfe, you sound so much better than I have ever heard you. Dr. Arse sounds pretty standard to me, hesitant to do anything that could put his arse on the line. I think you have been very blessed to have your regular doc. When will he be back?!? I like him so much better. He sounds like he is more of a risk taker and willing to put himself out there a bit if he thinks he can help you. As well, he is protective of you and doesn't want anybody else messing with you.

You have really jumped a huge hurdle where Greg is concerned...I hear a lot more acceptance of it being the way it is.

Let's all agree in prayer for God to bind the spirits of depression, suicide, doubt, nightmares and fear of the future and the unknown. In Jesus' name, Amen. If I missed some, post them and we can pray in agreement for those, too.

One last thought. Just because Dr. Arse says that you can't stay on xanax forever, doesn't mean that a doctor will take you off it prematurely. He really does sound like an arse to me.
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Old 02-23-2011, 23:49   #6848
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I am new to this thread LW, but just wanted to say you are in my prayers
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Old 02-24-2011, 02:09   #6849
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Be sure to grab Giving Up while you're at it. I'm sick of his ass too. Those 2 like to team up. Silent_Runner's right about Nightmares, but I think he'll be harder to get rid of.
Batter Up!
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Old 02-24-2011, 02:38   #6850
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I've talked about the demons privately, but you're right in that they're not as powerful as they were in the past. Just last night I was going to ask if I could hang one in particular out the window and let you folks bash his head in once and for all. I'm tired of him whispering in my ear and want him gone. With him out of the way I think the other will curl up and die, or go find some other way to amuse themselves.

What say you, Demon Hunters International, want a piece of him?
I'll take a piece of him. There is nothing more dangerous than a wounded animal.
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Old 02-24-2011, 08:28   #6851
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Does Dr. Arse have some other idea of treatment instead of the steroid injections?? You are in my thoughts as always.
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Old 02-24-2011, 08:32   #6852
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Get well quickly and I love you sweetheart
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Old 02-24-2011, 11:18   #6853
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Batter Up!
I have bats and will travel.

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Wolfe, you sound so much better than I have ever heard you.
You have really jumped a huge hurdle where Greg is concerned...I hear a lot more acceptance of it being the way it is.

Let's all agree in prayer for God to bind the spirits of depression, suicide, doubt, nightmares and fear of the future and the unknown. In Jesus' name, Amen. If I missed some, post them and we can pray in agreement for those, too. :
Great post. Thank you.

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Dr Arse is wellÖ.. an arse. I had to see him today and while I was there I asked about the steroid injections my regular doc said I need about now. Dr Arse said he didnít want to do anything like that, even though my regular doc had talked to him about doing it. I asked him why and he didnít seem to have a good answer, except to say that he could see Iíd had to come in with breathing and other problems quite a bit after the last injections. I agreed that was true, but pointed out that my physical therapist and doc agreed that I improved a lot for a couple of months afterward, and now Iím losing some ground in therapy. Arse grumbled some crap about me taking up too much time at the hospital, so I asked him if the real problem he had with me was that I was there a lot and he had to do some work. He didnít care for that, but couldnít deny it.

He finally said he didnít approve of keeping ďat riskĒ patients in the war zone. I asked him how much more of a risk I was than anyone else on this base, or worse, anyone that goes outside the wire. He pointed out the time I stopped breathing shortly after I got the last set of steroid injections, so I asked him what my docís recommendation was about that. He said the recommendation was to lower the dose by as much as half. Then he started talking about some other bad instances I had, which I pointed out were all several months or more old, and I wasnít much more ďat riskĒ that the guy hobbling down the hall on crutches. Maybe less, in fact, because I could get to a bunker quicker. Sure Iíd be hurting afterward, Iíd still be in the bunker. He finally did calm down a little and said heíd reconsider doing the steroid injections instead of making me wait a month. Then he asked what I would do if I had any trouble breathing afterward. I told him Iíd come in and make him of the night doc earn their keep. ::

My terrorist had to let up some today, for some reason I couldnít give any resistance to any of the pushing or pulling exercises and stretching hurt more than normal. That happens every once in a while, I just seem to be back at square one. It normally passes in a few days, but isnít fun while it lasts. At least my terrorist recognized it right away and didnít make me cry too much. The weather was really nice again today. Low 70ís during the day with just a little dust in the air. Mandyís doing OK, sheís still drying out from the recent soaking I gave her and probably still plotting against me.


Woman, you questioned my sanity long before that, donít even try to convince anyone that was the first time!

I said something to that effect to my shrink myself, asked if he was planting a suggestion to have a setback in my head. He said he know that was always there, but he thought it was more important for me to not be blindsided when one hit after seemingly feeling better for longer than Iím used to. Normally when I go numb from a lot of crap trying to come out itís real painful when the numbness wear off because the crap in my head just overpowers it. This time Iím still pretty numb, but when I can feel anything itís just an empty feeling, kind of dead inside. I donít know what to make of it, but my shrink seems happy about it, so I guess I am too.
That is true. I have had good reason to question your sanity almost from the day I met you. I doubt that will ever change.

Your fillin doctor seems normal in many ways. He wants nothing to go wrong and will take no chances but he also refuses to look beyond maintaining you condition until your regular doctor gets back. Part of that is he knows he will not be able to heal you in a month so he would have nothing to show for it but he would have to answer for something going very wrong. Try to put yourself in his shoes.

Have no fear your terrorist will have you back up to full torture in just a few days. The same thing applies to your shrink unless you really have cried it all out of your system. I hope that is the case and the real healing has begun.
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I mean, Iím mentally ill, not mentally deficient! There's a difference between psycho and stupid.
Rest in Peace Jeff Abshire-1962-2012-aka 23Skidoo
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Old 02-24-2011, 17:55   #6854
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I am new to this thread LW, but just wanted to say you are in my prayers
Thank you gunslinger. Friendship and prayers are greatly appreciated.



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Originally Posted by Magnus2131 View Post
I'll take a piece of him. There is nothing more dangerous than a wounded animal. : whistling:
Which piece would you like and how would you like it cooked?



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Originally Posted by 23skidoo View Post
Batter Up! : grouphug:
Been practicing your swing?



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Originally Posted by okie View Post
Get well quickly and I love you sweetheart: hearts:: hugs:
Thanks okie, I love you too.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sawgrass View Post
Does Dr. Arse have some other idea of treatment instead of the steroid injections?? You are in my thoughts as always.
If he does he hasn't mentioned it. He just seems to want to sit on his hands till my regular doc comes back. I want to push him to get off his ass a little, but I have to be careful not to piss him off and have him yank my medical clearance out of spite. I can't be sure he wouldn't do that just to be rid of the responsibility, but as Bob pointed out, I'd be screwed. So I'll tread carefully, but I really don't want to wait a month for something that helped me last time (along with some side effects), and my terrorist thinks I need.

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That is true. I have had good reason to question your sanity almost from the day I met you. I doubt that will ever change.: rofl:

Have no fear your terrorist will have you back up to full torture in just a few days. The same thing applies to your shrink unless you really have cried it all out of your system. I hope that is the case and the real healing has begun.
Are you saying I'm ? Wait a minute, I am............

I'm sure my terrorist won't give me a break for long. My shrink certainly didn't today. He couldn't seem to drag much out of me, but it wasn't for lack of trying. I wasn't fighting him, or even completely numb, I just couldn't find the right words and express anything. Hard to explain. Not a terrible session, but I'm not sure if it was productive or not and my shrink didn't let on what he thought.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BobInTX View Post
If that was Greg on the ground shot, why would you save him? I know you don't know if you would have, but let's say you did. What are some possible reasons that you would risk your life?
I like to think I would, but really can't be sure I wouldn't have just hunkered down behind the rocks in fear while he died out there. Being surprised by the ambush, bullets flying everywhere, and I'm not nearly as brave as some people think I am. Then I'd have to live with myself, wouldn't I? I know I'd always wonder if I could have helped, especially if he was alive when the medic got to him, but then died. I could just picture the medic grumbling something to the effect of "****!, too late!" I don't think I could live with that guilt anymore than the guilt I already have. Maybe even a lot less.

I just realized I didn't answer your question, can I try again tomorrow?
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Old 02-24-2011, 20:00   #6855
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It was a good start and might have been exactly what Greg was thinking.
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Old 02-25-2011, 17:34   #6856
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Originally Posted by BobInTX View Post
It was a good start and might have been exactly what Greg was thinking.
Itís very possible he thought that and maybe more along those lines. One thing that I apparently didnít make real clear when I posted the details of what happened was the amount of time that passed from when I was hit until Greg broke cover. From what I was told it was something close to a minute. I know I didnít hear anything like that in the half minute of so it took for me to lose consciousness. As it was told to me he was still down when the medic made his way from another MRAP to where the convoy commander could see him to tell him to stay down because he thought the medic couldnít help me. I donít know if he could hear that exchange from where he was but it may have been possible. It was after that and the 2 Afghanis that had been shooting from some rocks to the rear were taken out that he moved. It was one of those 2 bastards from the rear that got me at the start of the fight, and the one off to the side got Greg.

So he had time for something to go through his head. I wish I knew what, but I donít guess heís going to come around and tell me. Besides he probably knows Iíd scream at him anyway. Thank him, yes, but definitely scream at him and ask what the hell he was thinking.
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Old 02-25-2011, 17:55   #6857
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Originally Posted by Lone_Wolfe View Post
Itís very possible he thought that and maybe more along those lines. One thing that I apparently didnít make real clear when I posted the details of what happened was the amount of time that passed from when I was hit until Greg broke cover. From what I was told it was something close to a minute. I know I didnít hear anything like that in the half minute of so it took for me to lose consciousness. As it was told to me he was still down when the medic made his way from another MRAP to where the convoy commander could see him to tell him to stay down because he thought the medic couldnít help me. I donít know if he could hear that exchange from where he was but it may have been possible. It was after that and the 2 Afghanis that had been shooting from some rocks to the rear were taken out that he moved. It was one of those 2 bastards from the rear that got me at the start of the fight, and the one off to the side got Greg.

So he had time for something to go through his head. I wish I knew what, but I donít guess heís going to come around and tell me. Besides he probably knows Iíd scream at him anyway. Thank him, yes, but definitely scream at him and ask what the hell he was thinking.
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Old 02-25-2011, 18:16   #6858
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Originally Posted by Lone_Wolfe View Post
Itís very possible he thought that and maybe more along those lines. One thing that I apparently didnít make real clear when I posted the details of what happened was the amount of time that passed from when I was hit until Greg broke cover. From what I was told it was something close to a minute. I know I didnít hear anything like that in the half minute of so it took for me to lose consciousness. As it was told to me he was still down when the medic made his way from another MRAP to where the convoy commander could see him to tell him to stay down because he thought the medic couldnít help me. I donít know if he could hear that exchange from where he was but it may have been possible. It was after that and the 2 Afghanis that had been shooting from some rocks to the rear were taken out that he moved. It was one of those 2 bastards from the rear that got me at the start of the fight, and the one off to the side got Greg.

So he had time for something to go through his head. I wish I knew what, but I donít guess heís going to come around and tell me. Besides he probably knows Iíd scream at him anyway. Thank him, yes, but definitely scream at him and ask what the hell he was thinking.
We're never going to know. I think you're going to have to just assume that he thought you might still be alive and he just wasn't going to leave you out there to die. It's the only thing that makes sense to me. It's what I would be thinking if I were him. Whether it was a good idea or not is irrelevant to your current situation. You're in pain, yes, but you're alive, and that's Greg's gift to you.

How you go forward is what's really important. The past is the past. Let's work on the present and the future.
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Old 02-25-2011, 19:30   #6859
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Been practicing your swing?














Yep, my cane too, the nice root maple one Miss Sawgrass made for me. Those demons are going to have a bad day. No squeezing
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Old 02-26-2011, 07:37   #6860
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how you go forward is what's really important. The past is the past. Let's work on the present and the future.
Amen. Thankfully LW you still have the ability to make choices for yourself.
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