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Old 01-19-2011, 19:14   #6601
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Love you LW sweetheart
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Old 01-20-2011, 05:09   #6602
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Originally Posted by Lone_Wolfe View Post
I'll bet you're excited about the new baby. I'm glad the rest of the news on the homefront is good. Except poor Mrs. Bob's sanity, that is. I hope that gets better once the MIL is home.

I ran into my shrink today while I was waiting for my physical terrorist appointment. (He was cruel, BTW ) He had an appointment before mine. He came over to me and asked how I was feeling, and I could feel myself get all tense and my claws come out and I told him I didn't know, it was all so jumbled in my head. I was actually so uptight I started shaking, but he said that was good, just to leave it there and not worry about trying to sort it out myself, that we'll do that tomorrow. Then he told me "If you're talking to your internet friends and some of it wants to come out by all means let it. I'm not going to turn down any help".

I was glad he left then, because I was trying not to bawl before my terrorist even got ahold of me. He made me cry too, but a different kind of crying. : steamed:
Safety valves Sweetheart. We love you and want to help in any way possible. Here's a warm no squeezing hug.
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:06   #6603
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Originally Posted by Lone_Wolfe View Post
I'll bet you're excited about the new baby. I'm glad the rest of the news on the homefront is good. Except poor Mrs. Bob's sanity, that is. I hope that gets better once the MIL is home.

I ran into my shrink today while I was waiting for my physical terrorist appointment. (He was cruel, BTW ) He had an appointment before mine. He came over to me and asked how I was feeling, and I could feel myself get all tense and my claws come out and I told him I didn't know, it was all so jumbled in my head. I was actually so uptight I started shaking, but he said that was good, just to leave it there and not worry about trying to sort it out myself, that we'll do that tomorrow. Then he told me "If you're talking to your internet friends and some of it wants to come out by all means let it. I'm not going to turn down any help".

I was glad he left then, because I was trying not to bawl before my terrorist even got ahold of me. He made me cry too, but a different kind of crying.
You keep working hard on that PT. That's how you're chest is going to get better.

Let us know how your talk with your shrink goes today. And don't clam up!!

ETA: And I'm sure it's already happened considering the time difference.
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:24   #6604
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How are you? Did you see your shrink?
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:24   #6605
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You keep working hard on that PT. That's how you're chest is going to get better.

Let us know how your talk with your shrink goes today. And don't clam up!!

ETA: And I'm sure it's already happened considering the time difference.
BobInTX you said it much better than I could. Thank you.
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I mean, Iím mentally ill, not mentally deficient! There's a difference between psycho and stupid.
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Old 01-20-2011, 14:05   #6606
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Hey, all. I've started this thread http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1307832 for research that I need help with.

I'd appreciate your participation.

Thanks.
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Old 01-20-2011, 17:06   #6607
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Originally Posted by okie View Post
Love you LW sweetheart: hugs:: hearts:
Love you too, sweetheart.



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Originally Posted by Tenngunner View Post
Ummmmmm, you know that's not the seafood kind don't ya. : wavey:

Hope your feeling better and letting the shrink know all.
I do now.

It's kinda hard to let the shrink know what I don't know, but that's what happened today.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 23skidoo View Post
Safety valves Sweetheart. We love you and want to help in any way possible. Here's a warm no squeezing hug. : iloveyou:
Yeah, let off a little steam before I blow to hell and back. Wait, I've already been there, think I still am a lot of time. Actually my shrink hope I'll just open the valve and leave it that way until it all comes out. Not looking forward to that.



Quote:
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How are you? Did you see your shrink?
Yeah, but I think he wishes I hadn't. My claws came out and I felt bad about it afterward. At least I didn't have my terrorist making things any worse today. My doc mentioned another round of steroid injections soon, and I had another MRI today. Don't know the results of that yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobInTX View Post
You keep working hard on that PT. That's how you're chest is going to get better.

Let us know how your talk with your shrink goes today. And don't clam up!!

ETA: And I'm sure it's already happened considering the time difference.

My terrorist keeps trying to convince me of that too, especially right after he makes me cry. He did say that I'm able resist more and lift more than I have been and he thinks my breathing is getting better even though it doesn't feel that way.

Yesterday when I read your post about my shrink visit of 2 days ago I started to come in here and say stuff like "Yeah, easy for you to say, you don't have to live with this ****.............." You get the idea. Then I stopped because there's no reason for me to rip your face off when you haven't done anything wrong. So I just wrote what I did and put down my computer. Luckily my sleep meds took hold of me shortly after that, because my mind has been going so fast for the last couple days I haven't getten a coherent thought out of it.

I didn't clam up at my shrink appt today, at least not intentionally. I think I cried a hell of a lot more than I talked, at least in part because I couldn't get a thought out. It's all so jumbled in my head right now I don't know which way is up. He said something about starting to pull some of those wires loose that needed to go, then he started asking me questions that I couldn't answer. My claws came out and I just started screaming at him and I think I was incoherent. I don't think I spoke a dozen complete sentences today, and afterwards I felt bad for attacking the poor guy like I did. I sure hope you folks and him are right that this is a good sign, because right now my head is in the trash.
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RIP my friends Greg and Florence, see you again on the other side.
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Old 01-20-2011, 19:49   #6608
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Have a pizza- Everyone likes pizza!


...And a bananana... Who can't laugh at this???
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Old 01-21-2011, 13:42   #6609
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Have a pizza- Everyone likes pizza!


...And a bananana... Who can't laugh at this???
I did. They have pizza most Fridays at the DFAC. Really crappy pizza, but still pizza. That's bunny is hilarious, but I never did know what it's about.

back, I need them today.
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RIP my friends Greg and Florence, see you again on the other side.
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Old 01-21-2011, 13:51   #6610
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Here is a steak, shrimp and frog legs for you sweetheart

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Old 01-21-2011, 18:10   #6611
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That's bunny is hilarious, but I never did know what it's about.
It means:
Okie Memorial Area





Although I prefer the other version.
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Old 01-22-2011, 05:52   #6612
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Originally Posted by okie View Post
Here is a steak, shrimp and frog legs for you sweetheart: hugs:
okie, that looks just TOO good!





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Originally Posted by DustyJacket View Post
It means:


Although I prefer the other version.
Cute little rabbit. Although he probably wondered how he was going to get his dinner off his head.




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Originally Posted by BobInTX View Post
You know I didn't mean that in a derogatory, uncaring way. I just wanted you to think.

In the Tucson shooting, a nine year-old girl was killed. She was taken to the event by a neighbor because she was excited to learn more about her government. The neighbor was also wounded. I heard yesterday that the neighbor is feeling severe guilt for taking her and playing the "what if" game. Can you relate to that?

I thought about you when I heard she had taken the little girl and I wondered if she was going to feel guilt, so I've come to the conclusion that this is a natural, human reaction. It may not have been the same as your circumstances, but the end result is the same. She was shot, and her friend died. She didn't know this would happen, but neither did you, or, as you have said many times, you would not have gone, and you and Greg surely wouldn't have been joking around in the MRAP.

Although nobody else thinks she is guilty, including You, I'm sure, her guilt is real to her. She knows she shouldn't feel guilty, but she does. If she had just not taken the little girl to the event to meet her congresswoman, she'd still be alive.

Although nobody else thinks You are guilty, including Greg, I'm sure, your guilt is real to you. You know you shouldn't feel guilty, but you do. If you had just not made that phone call, Greg would still be alive.

But how can you live your life like that? A life lived without risks is no life at all.

Maybe I should say "SO WHAT NOW?"

I mean, what are you going to do about it? Do you belong in prison? A prison doesn't have to have walls. It can be in your head. Are you going to let guilt run your life? Are you going to let it deny you happiness?

You may always feel guilt for this. The key is how you deal with it. Forgiving yourself for it is a start. I noticed you still haven't done this. You've asked Greg to forgive you, and God to forgive you, but not yourself. Why is that? Can you forgive yourself?

Yes, you can. You didn't mean to hurt anybody. Did you? You would forgive Greg if the tables were turned, wouldn't you?
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Originally Posted by BobInTX View Post
I saw you responded to a post about this:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theloo...-since-vietnam

This guy is definitely a hero. We all admire and respect him. Here is what happened:

"When an insurgent force ambush split Specialist Giunta's squad into two groups, he exposed himself to enemy fire to pull a comrade back to cover. Later, while engaging the enemy and attempting to link up with the rest of his squad, Specialist Giunta noticed two insurgents carrying away a fellow soldier. He immediately engaged the enemy, killing one and wounding the other, and provided medical aid to his wounded comrade while the rest of his squad caught up and provided security. His courage and leadership while under extreme enemy fire were integral to his platoon's ability defeat an enemy ambush and recover a fellow American paratrooper from enemy hands.

Giunta...was shot twice during the incident in the valley that day, though neither bullet pierced the body armor he was wearing"

The paratrooper died.

Hmmm...seems like I've heard a story like this before. Let's see. Where was it?



Lone_Wolfe lived.

These stories are very similar. The only differences are Sgt Giunta lived. Greg died. The paratrooper died. You lived.

Four soldiers have been awarded the Medal of Honor in the Afghanistan War. None of them were leading an attack on the enemy and wiping them out. All of them were helping their brothers.

Robert James Miller: Fatally shot while diverting gunfire from Taliban forces in Afghanistan so that his fellow comrades could escape.

Jared C. Monti: Killed while trying to rescue a wounded soldier from intense small arms and rocket-propelled grenade fire. SPC Bradbury subsequently died during his evacuation when the cable on the rescue hoist lifting him to a 159th Medical Company (Air Ambulance) helicopter broke. The fall also killed Staff Sergeant Heathe Craig, 28, a medic from Severn, Maryland. So in trying to save the one man, three men wound up dying.

Michael P. Murphy: Led a four-man reconnaissance team in a fight against superior numbers, exposed himself to hostile fire in order to call for help and was killed. When help came in a helicopter, the insurgents fired a RPG into the back of the helicopter and killed 16 people on board. Only one man survived from Michael Murphy's team, Marcus Luttrell. So in exchange for trying to save 4 people, 19 people were killed.

Salvatore Giunta: For risking his life to save a wounded soldier from being captured. Is the first living recipient since the Vietnam War. The soldier died.

I think any of these four guys would have broke cover and come after you in a heartbeat. None of them probably thought about what they were doing, they just did it.

I believe that Greg deserves a medal, too. I hope his family received one.



All of these men could be considered foolish now. Some of them, by their actions, caused even more people to get killed, if you want to look at it that way. All but one paid the ultimate price.

But at the time these events occurred, they were only doing what needed to be done. Not all men, or women, are up to this task.

Only 3,471 Medals of Honor have been awarded since they began in the Civil War. They don't just give these out to anybody. The recipient shows "conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of life above and beyond the call of duty." Intrepidity means fearless bravery. Gallantry means "spirited and conspicuous bravery". That's why most of us say that we don't know if we could have done that if we were there.

These MOH recipients weren't just saving some guy over there. These were their friends. I heard Sgt Giunta on the radio last night say that he would give up the Medal of Honor if he could just have his friends back. I'm sure he wasn't saying "Oh, there's a guy over there. I need to help him". No, it was "I've got to save Josh!" and that's why he did what he did, probably without even thinking.



Greg wasn't just trying to rescue some soldier, he was rescuing his friend. I notice you call him "Greg", not Sgt Smith. I doubt if he would have done that if it was one of the "grunts" who he didn't even know. It doesn't matter why he was there or why he did what he did, the important thing is that he WAS there and he did do what he did. The right man was in the right place at the right time.

Would he have done this if he knew he was going to die? Maybe not. Did he know he could die? Yes, and that's what makes him a hero. Would he be proud that you are alive, even though he's dead? Yes, I'm sure of it. We all have to die sometime. What better way to go than by displaying conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of life above and beyond the call of duty.

You feel that Greg was foolish because it was you who he saved and he paid for it with his life. If he hadn't died it would be different. I think it is normal for you to feel that way. I know you would gladly trade your life for his.

It wasn't rational for any of these men to do what they did. Why would someone rush into a situation where they could be killed? Why not hide behind cover until it's all over? Why didn't Lone_Wolfe just stay at the base until it was all over?

That is the source of your guilt. If you had just waited for another day none of this would have happened. If the Colonel had just said no none of this would have happened. If the helicopter hadn't broken down none of this would have happened. If Greg had just not gone on the convoy he would still be alive. If the first MRAP had hit the IED instead of the second none of this would happened. If the Afghanis hadn't put a bomb in the road none of this would have happened. If the grunts just would have seen the ambush coming none of this would have happened. If Greg hadn't broken cover he would still be alive. If you had just not gone to Afghanistan none this would have happened. If the President hadn't decided to invade Afghanistan none of this would have happened. If 9/11 hadn't happened none of this would have happened. If we had had better security at airports and in cockpits none of this would have happened. If Osama bin Laden wasn't a religious fanatic none of this would have happened. If you hadn't joined the Army none of this would have happened. If Greg hadn't joined the Army he would still be alive. If you just hadn't decided to go into the computer field none of this would have happened. If Greg hadn't become a mechanic none of this would have happened. If you had never been born none of this would have happened. If God hadn't created the universe, none of this would have happened.

If, if if! Change any of these "ifs" and you wouldn't be sitting where you are today, in pain and anguish of guilt. You see how far back you can take it? You might as well be asking yourself why God created the universe as to ask yourself why you went on the convoy. God loves his creation, he loves you, and you were just trying to do your job. You weren't out for a joy ride, you were trying to save lives, just like Salvatore, Robert, Michael, Jared, and Greg. You just couldn't see whose life you were trying to save.

Why did Greg break cover? Because he had conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity. You didn't ask him to save you. You've made it quite clear that once you were shot you couldn't move and you couldn't make a sound. He went to save you because he was that kind of man.

Why did you go on the convoy? Not to get Greg killed and yourself shot, by any means. You were trying to do your job and save lives. That was more important to you and the Army than the risk that your convoy could come under attack. You were doing what needed to be done.

But "Why" doesn't matter. Not really. "Why" doesn't change anything. What matters is "What now?" Do you continue to beat yourself up for the "what ifs" and live every day beside the road, or do you forgive all involved, including God, yourself, Greg, the Colonel, the grunts, President Bush, your mother and father for having sex, and yes, even the Afghanis, and thank God every day that you are alive, and move on to the next chapter in your life?
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Originally Posted by Glock26girl View Post
What you are going through IS confusing!! You are starting to realize and accept in your mind that you aren't guilty, but it still hurts in your heart that Greg died. I can totally understand your going back and forth with it in your heart and mind. Of course, we know that it isn't rational to feel guilty about it, but it is obviously hard to control. Please just know that given the same circumstances, we would all struggle with it. But, the bottom line is, you are NOT GUILTY!!

I wish that we could all come over to visit you one at a time and keep you company, giving you gentle hugs and encouragement. Although, I think that your Dr., terrorist and therapist do a pretty good job of making you feel very cared about. Though I am anxious for you to make that final breakthrough, I know somewhere inside you that you know you are not responsible for what happened. Gentle
I was just rereading some of this and trying to find a couple of Brown Hawk's posts back somewhere close to the beginning of this thread. Just trying to make some sense of the jumble in me head and getting nowhere. Don't know why, but it seems worse instead of better.

<<< could use one
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RIP my friends Greg and Florence, see you again on the other side.
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Old 01-22-2011, 07:48   #6613
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"We don't sit on our asses enough and THINK thru scenarios. We have to wait until bad nasty stuff happens to us to appreciate circumstances that might run counter to our preconceptions and beliefs."
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:04   #6614
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okie, that looks just TOO good!

A special meal for a special lady
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:20   #6615
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Old 01-22-2011, 10:01   #6616
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:54   #6617
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I was just rereading some of this and trying to find a couple of Brown Hawk's posts back somewhere close to the beginning of this thread. Just trying to make some sense of the jumble in me head and getting nowhere. Don't know why, but it seems worse instead of better.

<<< could use one


Hard to tell from a distance and over a keyboard but I'd judge that you have indeed made progress.
Stronger
Capable

I say this but I want to acknowledge your struggles and pain. Makes life very hard.

<<< prays for your complete recovery, your happiness and peace of mind.
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Old 01-22-2011, 12:57   #6618
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Hard to tell from a distance and over a keyboard but I'd judge that you have indeed made progress.
Stronger
Capable

I say this but I want to acknowledge your struggles and pain. Makes life very hard.

<<< prays for your complete recovery, your happiness and peace of mind.
engineer151515 I believe you are right about Wolfe making progress. It may be slow but it continues. Her recovery might not be possible without the struggles and pain she feels. She keeps telling me she wants to meet you so she had better keep struggling to get better so she can. I pray with you for complete recovery.

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I was just rereading some of this and trying to find a couple of Brown Hawk's posts back somewhere close to the beginning of this thread. Just trying to make some sense of the jumble in me head and getting nowhere. Don't know why, but it seems worse instead of better.

<<< could use one
Wolfe in your email to me you said your shrink had made a remark about it being darkest before dawn. From the rest of what you said I think you are seeing a lot of darkness right now. I hope that is a good sign. Reposting what you did was a good idea and finding the older posts you mentioned and reading them can only help right now as your mind tried to sort out the confusion. How did you sleep last night?
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I mean, Iím mentally ill, not mentally deficient! There's a difference between psycho and stupid.
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Old 01-22-2011, 17:48   #6619
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In regard to your looking for some of Brown Hawk's writings that you were looking for, I found this from March 22nd, 2010. I always liked his term, "false guilt."

By Brown Hawk:
I write a long paper on why you have no real reason to feel guilt about Greg's death, and your responses so far are that you wouldn't have obeyed a lawful order by a superior officer in a situation that never happened.

You are avoiding the point.

The point is that despite your feeling of guilt, there is no logical or rational reason for your feeling guilty about Greg's death.

We've gone over your compulsion to feel guilty when things go wrong, even when it's not your fault. And that is what is happening here. You need to recognize that that is what is happening, and start working on it.

And you need to realize that you had the normal grief, sadness and guilt feelings, but that the medication screwup magnified and intensified those into what you are feeling now. You had about one nightmare a week before the screwup, according to you and SR, and it was only afterward that you ended up with nightly nightmares.

You need to recognize that, yes, medication can screw you up that badly, and yes, your compulsion to blame yourself can be pushed to that kind of extreme.

You used to accept blame to get peace and some approval. But now your acceptance of blame is causing turmoil and angst, because that part of you that never really accepted the blame that wasn't yours, is fighting back.

Yes, that is contradictory, and very human. But part of your moving on is realizing that you will never really accept the blame for Greg's death that you are blaming yourself for.

When I was five, I was playing with some friends, and when we were done for the day, I went home - with some of their small toys I had put in my pocket while moving from one thing to another. When my mom found them, she marched me back and made me apologize for "stealing" them, despite my protestations that it was an accident. I apologized, but have never forgotten, because I had no intention of stealing them. It was just one of those things that kids do.

You blame yourself for Greg's death, even come up with elaborate reasons, but that little five year old saying stubbornly "But I DIDN'T steal them" won't let you have the peace that you used to get. Because it is about the death of a human being, and no one accepts that easily.

This is why I have said before that if you had truly caused Greg's death, you could handle it better and move on. But because you didn't cause Greg's death, a part of you will never accept the guilt that you are forcing on yourself. Your five year old, who is saying "It WASN'T my fault" won't be pacified unless you can prove guilt - which you can't - or you lay the guilt aside - which goes against every thing you have ever learned about gaining peace when things go wrong. So you concentrate on irrelivancies instead of the point of the program.

I think I already told you that accepting this innocence was going to be a hard fight, but unless you start the fight, you can't move on. We can support and love you, and in my case even goad and push you, but you are the only one that can climb in the ring and knock your opponent out.

And another point. You said that you want to be carefull what you say to the new psycho terrorist, as you are still on the army list. BS. Unless you open up, the army won't take you back, and if you do, they still won't because you are out on disability and they won't take a chance on you for that reason. So trust him and work with him and get well. You were logical and rational enough to figure out where you would get the best care, now go the whole mile and USE that care. Whatever the immediate cost.

Love, prayers, lots of gentle , and cradling you in my arms as you sleep.
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Old 01-22-2011, 18:03   #6620
Silent_Runner
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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Good evening everyone. My intuition told me that Wolfe might be having a bad time right now and I was right. I called her a few minutes ago and got through after several tries. She sounded like she had been crying hard and was struggling to make sense of her thoughts. I was able to talk to her for less than a minute before the connection dropped but I could tell she is very upset right now and may be facing the pain inside her. I hope the dam is finally breaking at she can get some of it out so she can sort out what is real and what is not.

Glock26girl that post you copied makes some very good points. Wolfe if you come on here tonight please read this one along with the ones you quoted. Just read them and cry and pray over them. Please let us know you are OK.

Would each of you please pray that this is the breakthrough that Wolfe has been needing? I truly hope is is and am praying too.
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I mean, Iím mentally ill, not mentally deficient! There's a difference between psycho and stupid.
Rest in Peace Jeff Abshire-1962-2012-aka 23Skidoo
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