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Old 01-10-2011, 08:52   #6541
Tenngunner
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Sawgrass prayers for your friends family and for you also. There seems to be too much of this going around, day after Christmas we got a call that my wife's boss died Christmas night from the widow maker.



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"We don't sit on our asses enough and THINK thru scenarios. We have to wait until bad nasty stuff happens to us to appreciate circumstances that might run counter to our preconceptions and beliefs."
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Old 01-10-2011, 09:47   #6542
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LW.
Do you drink coffee? How do you like it?


<<< blurts out a common question in the middle of serious discussion.

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Old 01-10-2011, 09:56   #6543
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Originally Posted by RottnJP View Post
(And it's a good reminder to always try to be gentle, to the extent we can manage, with our fellow travelers on this road, because you never know what someone is dealing with inside, or in their daily life, that may not be readily apparent... And worst case scenario, you never know when you might need to cash in just a bit of that karmic credit to help you miss a light pole, or catch a round in a trauma plate...)
RottnJP, those are very wise words. Thanks.
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Old 01-10-2011, 10:16   #6544
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Originally Posted by Tenngunner View Post
Sawgrass prayers for your friends family and for you also. There seems to be too much of this going around, day after Christmas we got a call that my wife's boss died Christmas night from the widow maker.



LW
So sorry to hear that. Prayers for those who mourn the loss.

I have a friend who survived a dissection when survival rate was only 5%. His brother survived one only because he had been evaluated due to his brother's dissection.
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Old 01-10-2011, 11:23   #6545
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Originally Posted by Lone_Wolfe View Post
...It's wierd that a lot of time lately I feel like I understand even less that I have been able to...
that is a sign of maturity ..... and later, age.

The more I know, I realize that I understand less.
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Old 01-10-2011, 14:49   #6546
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Hi folks; Miss Lone_ has felt crappy today with a lot of chest pain, she called the hospital and they're sending someone to pick her up. She hopes to be back on tomorrow. No squeezing Sweetheart
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Old 01-10-2011, 14:56   #6547
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"I don't understand why you can't help us move this stuff." Idiot.
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:20   #6548
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Originally Posted by BobInTX View Post
"I don't understand why you can't help us move this stuff." Idiot.
Yeah, that guy was an idiot, but I can't blame him. I didn't lift any of the stuff he wanted me to, I just let him piss and moan. What really happened is that I was having nasty pains in my chest, more than my usual, coming and going yesterday and it got worse during the evening. I was feeling kind of queasy, but attributed that to the fact that I've gotten very little sleep in the last several days and a couple of mild breathing attacks earlier in the evening.

I'd been given different sleep meds than I'd been using, because my doc is going to try switching out so they don't quit working after a few days or weeks. I'm not supposed to take my sleep meds if I'm having trouble breathing, but that had subsided, or so I thought. I took my sleep meds and they felt like they weren't going to take so long to kick in as the cocktail I've been on of late. Trouble is, a breathing attack started in on my too. This one was unusual in that it seemed to be centered more on the left side than normal, although I've had them like that before. So I walked over to my office and called the hospital and described what was happening, plus the queasy feeling that was getting worse again. They sent a medic over right away to pick me up. I managed to get off a quick PM to Skidoo, but when I tried also to post something the medic was already here. He walked me th the truck, then drove to my CHU and told me "You know you're staying, so get your robe and that cat".

So I did, and they did all the usual stuff, plus checked and couble-checked my heart. they worry about that, even though it healed up with no permanent damage. The finally decided that this was just a result of lack of rest and damage that's trying to heal, plus apparently I've been thrashing quite a bit lately when I do sleep. They knocked me out last night and I'm still real groggy from all the meds.



Quote:
Originally Posted by engineer151515 View Post


LW.
Do you drink coffee? How do you like it?


<<< blurts out a common question in the middle of serious discussion.

I love coffee. I normally drink decaf because of the meds I'm on, especially at night. I admit, I have a thing for flavored creamers too. I even use those when I'm in the States.

Don't feel bad about an off-topic question. Besides, right now I'm too stoned to even comprehend the more serious stuff, but I can handle this. I'll have to get back to that later.

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RIP my friends Greg and Florence, see you again on the other side.
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Old 01-11-2011, 05:29   #6549
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You're back in your chu and feeling even a little better? Did Mandy complain when she was hustled away from HER chocolate stash?
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Old 01-11-2011, 09:01   #6550
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Originally Posted by 23skidoo View Post
You're back in your chu and feeling even a little better?:: Did Mandy complain when she was hustled away from HER chocolate stash?::::
23skidoo are you actually encouraging Mandy to steal Wolfe's chocolate? You are going to get her in the doghouse if she is not there already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone_Wolfe View Post
So I did, and they did all the usual stuff, plus checked and couble-checked my heart. they worry about that, even though it healed up with no permanent damage. The finally decided that this was just a result of lack of rest and damage that's trying to heal, plus apparently I've been thrashing quite a bit lately when I do sleep. They knocked me out last night and I'm still real groggy from all the meds.
:
Wolfe I'm glad to see that they are concerned enough to go get you. Those symptoms would have me worried too. I just hope they would tell you if they do find latent damage to your heart. Is you doctor going to go ahead with rotating your sleeping meds?

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Originally Posted by DustyJacket View Post
that is a sign of maturity ..... and later, age. :

The more I know, I realize that I understand less.
Dusty you hush about age!

Some of us understand the subject of age all to well. Is that right Wolfe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenngunner View Post
Sawgrass prayers for your friends family and for you also. There seems to be too much of this going around, day after Christmas we got a call that my wife's boss died Christmas night from the widow maker.



LW ::
Tenngunner I will pray for the friends and family of your wife's boss. How if your wife taking it? I hope she is OK.

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Originally Posted by RottnJP View Post
I have the funniest mental image of someone giving pointers to an EOD tech... "O.K., cut that wire... And that one... WAIT! Not that red wire- You'll leave her drooling on herself!"

:
RottnJP you made a very interesting analogy here. Unfortunately a lot of phychiatic work is done by trial and error because we don't truly understand the human brain. The good news in Wolfe's case is they seem to finally be making progress after they initial devistating errors. Now we need to pray that they are careful about which wires they cut. Leaving Wolfe drooling on herself would not be something she would appreciate.
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I mean, I’m mentally ill, not mentally deficient! There's a difference between psycho and stupid.
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Old 01-11-2011, 09:58   #6551
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Thanks S_R. She is doing ok now. Went to the services in MO and road 12 and 12 in a car and her back went out (muscle spasms). But mentally she is ok now.
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"We don't sit on our asses enough and THINK thru scenarios. We have to wait until bad nasty stuff happens to us to appreciate circumstances that might run counter to our preconceptions and beliefs."
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Old 01-11-2011, 10:04   #6552
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Thanks S_R. She is doing ok now. Went to the services in MO and road 12 and 12 in a car and her back went out (muscle spasms). But mentally she is ok now.
You're in my thoughts too. I hope your wife can make it into a tub of
epson salts or something. Back spasms stink.
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Old 01-11-2011, 16:18   #6553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenngunner View Post
There seems to be too much of this going around, day after Christmas we got a call that my wife's boss died Christmas night from the widow maker.

Thanks S_R. She is doing ok now. Went to the services in MO and road 12 and 12 in a car and her back went out (muscle spasms). But mentally she is ok now.
Damn, I hate to hear about her boss and then her back. Prayers sent for the family. As for her back, if mine goes out without my permission it's in trouble. Especially if it violates the curfew!

Actually I hope the spasms ease quickly. I wonder if she's benefit from some muscle cream.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 23skidoo View Post
You're back in your chu and feeling even a little better? Did Mandy complain when she was hustled away from HER chocolate stash?: supergrin:: hugs:: hearts::i loveyou:
Yep, I'm better than last night, that's for sure. I'm also getting groggy already, which hopefully means the sleep cocktail I have tonight is going to do what it gets paid to do. I hope so, the last one wasn't worth a crap. Last night was the first time I got over 3 hours in more than a week. But the doc there last night cheated and knocked me out. You don't know how bad I needed it.

As for Mandy and a certain mutt, they know chocolate's bad for them but they got into it anyway.





Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyJacket
that is a sign of maturity ..... and later, age.

The more I know, I realize that I understand less
Yeah!!! What Silent_Runner said! Why you talkin' 'bout my age?!?!?

Oh wait, I'm not the only one who's .................. err, never mind.

Yeah, I'm really struggling with understand and comprehension on anything today, so I can't even begin to really take in much of what RottnJP wrote. Hopefully the stuff they pumped me full of last night will be completely out of my system by tomorrow. I did finish the writing Bob wanted me to do, so I'll post it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BobInTX
Assume I believe every single person highlighted in bold print in the following excerpts is to blame for Greg's death. I'm really stubborn. Tell me why I might think that and then convince me they're not.

Bob, do you know how long it took to copy/paste all the questions and recreate the formatting because GT doesn’t requote quotes?
Quote:
Finally an E-4 walks over and tells the group that one of the birds had mechanical trouble and was deadlined.
Why blame the messenger? Unless he was lying about the broke-down chopper there wasn’t a thing he could do.
Quote:
A Captain walked up and asked what base I needed to go to and when I told him he said that it might be possible to send me by convoy.
I suppose you could pin some of it on him if you wanted to, he’s the one who offered me the convoy.
Quote:
The first person I asked, the Major, said no, but I asked to speak to the Colonel and was surprised when he relented.
The Major’s in the clear, he told me no. The Colonel wasn’t supposed to waive the rule and actually did catch a little flack over letting me go on the convoy.
Quote:
We got going down the road and I swear the driver was trying to see how many heads he could bounce off an MRAP’s roof at times.
Can’t pin it on him. All the drivers did was drive where they were told, when they were told.
Quote:
The gunners up top kept watch but couldn’t see anyone around.
About the only thing you could fault them for was not having X-ray vision, then being able to shoot through rocks once the Afghani’s started shooting.

Quote:
Some ground pounders got out of each and formed a perimeter around the convoy and watched for signs of anyone around. After a couple minutes we were given the all clear
.
Low ranking grunts don’t decide what tactics to use when the convoy commander told them to simply forma perimeter. Now if they’d been told to scout the area and didn’t bother to look behind the rocks it would have been different.
Quote:
Instructions were radioed back and forth, then the convoy commander explained to Greg and I that on his command we were to run to a group of large rocks between the 2 vehicles, then wait for the command to run to the 3rd vehicle and get in.
It would have been nice if he’d ordered the ground pounders to look around instead of just form a perimeter, but he was doing it how he’d been told he should.
Quote:
We locked and loaded, Greg his pistol, me my rifle, and ran when told to do so. Unknown to anyone there were 2 Afghanis behind some rocks behind the 3rd MRAP, about 50 or so feet from where Greg and I were running. They both jumped up from behind the cover and opened fire in our direction.
One of those 2 bastards shot me! You really think I’m going to try to convince you they’re not to blame?!?! Of course, I realize they’re Muslims and I’m an infidel and all that crap, but they pointed AK-47’s at me and pulled the trigger. Of course I blame them.
Quote:
The convoy commander had stopped the medic from trying to go to my aid because it was too dangerous and he thought I couldn’t be helped. Afghani #3 was playing cat and mouse, shooting a little, then ducking behind cover.
That’s the bastard that shot Greg. He’s damn sure to blame too.
Quote:
Someone that I had seen but not spoken to walks up and says “Hi, I’m hitching a ride on your convoy!”
Quote:
In spite of being close to the remaining Afghani, Greg decided to break cover to try to get to me and drag me back behind cover so the medic could try to save me. He was hit several times. He went down just before he made it to my position and died.
He had no way to know at the time that he saved my life, but by running out when he did the 3rd Afghani exposed himself enough while shooting him that he was also killed and the medic was able to get to me in time to save me.
He obviously made the choice to break cover, even though it was a really bad idea with Afghani #3 still alive and shooting. I’m sure he didn’t intend to commit Suicide by Insurgent, but unfortunately that’s what happened. He saved my life doing it, but I wish he’d stayed down. Or at least had the Afghani miss him. But he wouldn't have had the chance to do that ie either of us hadn't been there.

Quote:
While he’s standing there a medic with a cigarette dangling from his mouth walks over. Greg asks if he’s going to be the medic for the convoy and he says he is. I say “Well, nice to meet you, I don’t intend to need your services” The medic seems arrogant and says “Good, I only slept 3 hours last night and I don’t want to do ****!” as he walks off.
Quote:
As soon as the convoy commander declared the threat neutralized the medic ran to Greg, realized he was already gone, then ran to me and got busy.
I can’t see how anyone could put any blame on the medic, he managed to keep me alive until I got to the hospital.

Quote:
I explained that I was expressly prohibited from using ground trans. I thought about it for a second and decided to call my commander in Bagram and ask if it would be OK.
Quote:
I [Lone_Wolfe] got permission to use a secure line and made the call.
Greg was almost there and dove behind the rocks, but I was too far away and never had a chance to react. I was hit center of the chest by one of the 1st rounds fired and went down hard, slammed backward and spun around by the force of impact and landed facing back toward the vehicle I had just left.
I called and bugged the Colonel to let me go in spite of instructions and his initial hesitation. I should have just told the Captain that I had orders to just use helos and would have to wait for the next flight to come through. If I hadn’t been on the convoy I couldn’t have gotten shot and Greg wouldn’t have been able to run out to save me.
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To those who have made the ultimate sacrifice while defending American freedom, you will not be forgotten.

RIP my friends Greg and Florence, see you again on the other side.
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Old 01-11-2011, 17:02   #6554
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Love you LW sweetheart:
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Old 01-11-2011, 17:21   #6555
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It has always bothered me that they check the area better before ordering you and Greg to run to the other MRAP. I'm not saying it was the Convoy Commander's fault, but I hope that he learned something from what happened.
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Old 01-11-2011, 17:23   #6556
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Originally Posted by Lone_Wolfe View Post
Yeah, I'm really struggling with understand and comprehension on anything today, so I can't even begin to really take in much of what RottnJP wrote. Hopefully the stuff they pumped me full of last night will be completely out of my system by tomorrow. I did finish the writing Bob wanted me to do, so I'll post it.
Sorry about the quote copy and paste fiasco. Thanks for answering it also.

Okay, so now that we've identified all the major players, I've got just one more question.



SO WHAT?
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Old 01-11-2011, 18:28   #6557
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The sleep of the just Sweetheart.
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Old 01-12-2011, 03:38   #6558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobInTX View Post
Sorry about the quote copy and paste fiasco. Thanks for answering it also.

Okay, so now that we've identified all the major players, I've got just one more question.



SO WHAT?
Not sure what you mean by that question.

If you meant it like if sounds you wouldn't be spending time in this thread.
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To those who have made the ultimate sacrifice while defending American freedom, you will not be forgotten.

RIP my friends Greg and Florence, see you again on the other side.
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Old 01-12-2011, 10:40   #6559
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Not sure what you mean by that question.

If you meant it like if sounds you wouldn't be spending time in this thread.
You know I didn't mean that in a derogatory, uncaring way. I just wanted you to think.

In the Tucson shooting, a nine year-old girl was killed. She was taken to the event by a neighbor because she was excited to learn more about her government. The neighbor was also wounded. I heard yesterday that the neighbor is feeling severe guilt for taking her and playing the "what if" game. Can you relate to that?

I thought about you when I heard she had taken the little girl and I wondered if she was going to feel guilt, so I've come to the conclusion that this is a natural, human reaction. It may not have been the same as your circumstances, but the end result is the same. She was shot, and her friend died. She didn't know this would happen, but neither did you, or, as you have said many times, you would not have gone, and you and Greg surely wouldn't have been joking around in the MRAP.

Although nobody else thinks she is guilty, including You, I'm sure, her guilt is real to her. She knows she shouldn't feel guilty, but she does. If she had just not taken the little girl to the event to meet her congresswoman, she'd still be alive.

Although nobody else thinks You are guilty, including Greg, I'm sure, your guilt is real to you. You know you shouldn't feel guilty, but you do. If you had just not made that phone call, Greg would still be alive.

But how can you live your life like that? A life lived without risks is no life at all.

Maybe I should say "SO WHAT NOW?"

I mean, what are you going to do about it? Do you belong in prison? A prison doesn't have to have walls. It can be in your head. Are you going to let guilt run your life? Are you going to let it deny you happiness?

You may always feel guilt for this. The key is how you deal with it. Forgiving yourself for it is a start. I noticed you still haven't done this. You've asked Greg to forgive you, and God to forgive you, but not yourself. Why is that? Can you forgive yourself?

Yes, you can. You didn't mean to hurt anybody. Did you? You would forgive Greg if the tables were turned, wouldn't you?

I'm reposting what I said before so you don't have to hunt for it. I've edited it a little to reflect later conversations.

Lastly, comes Lone_Wolfe. Write with pen and paper a note to yourself. Tell yourself what you did that got Greg killed and you shot. Tell yourself that you have forgiven Greg for saving you and asked Greg's forgiveness, and you have asked for God's forgiveness. Tell yourself that although you will never forget Greg and what happened to you both, that you now forgive yourself, because you deserve to be happy, and to feel joy and hope and peace in your life. You don't have to do this at one sitting. Really think about this.

Then say, not write, a prayer to God to forgive you, because you were trying to do your best knowing what you did at the time. Ask him to forgive you for getting Greg killed and you shot. Ask him to help you to forgive yourself. Pour your heart out. Nobody's there but you and Him. His Spirit will help you.

"If we don't know how or what to pray, it doesn't matter. He does our praying in and for us, making prayer out of our wordless sighs, our aching groans. He knows us far better than we know ourselves, knows our condition, and keeps us present before God. That's why we can be so sure that every detail in our lives of love for God is worked into something good."

Please do this, not for me, but for yourself.
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Old 01-12-2011, 15:12   #6560
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All this introspective stuff is hard.

And I'm just reading it.
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