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Old 01-04-2010, 21:53   #2181
Lone_Wolfe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DScottHewitt View Post
I can't think of anything good to say.



Sometimes you don't have to say anything at all. Just be my friend, that's enough.
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To those who have made the ultimate sacrifice while defending American freedom, you will not be forgotten.

RIP my friends Greg and Florence, see you again on the other side.
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Old 01-05-2010, 00:24   #2182
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Old 01-05-2010, 05:39   #2183
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You're cats must be getting fat ,the one sitting on me feels like 500lbs.

Or maybe it was the long cold day at work

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Old 01-05-2010, 06:23   #2184
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Old 01-05-2010, 07:05   #2185
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Originally Posted by Silent_Runner View Post

OK so you busted me too engineer151515....
I feel as if I owe you a hug too.

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Old 01-05-2010, 08:12   #2186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone_Wolfe View Post
I used to think I was immortal too, but I think I know better now. I wouldn't need a heating pad, I would need a plane ticket! I would go to Miami, but faawrenchbndr retracted his Orange Bowl invite....... damn! So I guess I'l have to pick someplace else warm.
Probably because it's 20 degrees there!




I don't know which makes me more jealous, you getting to see a Green Flash or you sitting somewhere it was 80 degrees! Too bad it's too fast for a pic.

Something to look forward to. But nobody would believe a picture anyway.

...

I have the feeling if I say what Iím feeling right now Iím the one who will need the Kevlar when Brown Hawk gets back in here. Nah! I raised two teenagers alone. I just havenít been able to push anything aside for the last few days and itís really getting to me. At least the weatherís not making it worse. Thereís always my Physical terrorist, but heís just doing his normal torture.


Let's see. You've got a Physical terrorist, a Psycho terrorist, and a Drunk Doc. (Not because he's drunk now, but because it'll take about three years of concentrated effort to down all the drinks he's been promised here. )



I havenít really clawed my shrinkís face off for a couple visits either. Sheís getting me to the point Iím crying and screaming about it but backing off before I completely lose it. Sheís also taking a different approach than the ďfalse guiltĒ idea. Her premise is that the best way out of a something like this is forward and through it. Iíve used the same approach to get through bouts of depression in the past. She takes it a bit further, she calls it ďimmersionĒ. What she does is ask me questions and then when I answer she asks me why I feel that way, and so on. Just keeping it in front of me so I can take it apart in my mind enough that she hopes I'll stop feeling all the guilt I do now. I hate it but it worked in getting me through the repetitive nightmares.

With all this different input I'm getting I think I'd feel better about this than I still do. So much good advice.
Different approach, same objective. Face what happened, sort out the true from the false, ditch the false, and move on. Sounds like I need to buy her a beer as well. (BTW, is she hot?)

As far as the good advice, yes there is a lot. And it has helped. But the pace has to be yours, not anyone else's. If you had only the physical problems, or only the emotional problems, yes you would be further. But the problems in each area hinder recovery in the other area. You're improving, just keep moving one step at a time.

Love, prayers, lots of gentle , and (mentally) cradling you as you sleep,

Hawk
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:10   #2187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone_Wolfe View Post
I used to think I was immortal too, but I think I know better now. I wouldn't need a heating pad,
I would need a plane ticket! I would go to Miami, but faawrenchbndr retracted his Orange Bowl invite.......
damn! So I guess I'l have to pick someplace else warm......
Well crap,...........
I wrote a good bit when I edited that and looks like I screwed that up!

How's the heating pad working out for you? It's super chilly here today, was 48 this morning.

Brown Hawk is giving some good advice. You will never be at peace until
you face your fears, confront them and understand them.
Only then will you be able to shake off the nightmares.

I realize there is a BIG difference between listening to people telling you what
they believe you need to do and think. Some of us have delt with these issues before,
wether with ourselves, friends or subordinates.

You do know you are welcome to join us at the Orange Bowl,......
get your butt moving. Kick-off is in about 9 hours!
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:58   #2188
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Wolfe, the goat lovers can't win this fight.
Use whatever helps you put all of this in its place.

It seems like a long time ago that I said guilt is a
useless emotion. I still believe it is. I don't
think it matters if it's false or not. Things happen,
sometimes we could have prevented it, sometimes
not. The end result is the same.

I think at this point "character" takes over. If you
are a decent person and someone suffered because
of something you think you did, you feel bad.
Whether that's true or not, doesn't matter. What matters
is what you do with the lessons, values, integrity you personally
have or learned. If you remain in some guilt ridden state,
it suffocates the life right out of you. Little good comes
of it.

Sleep well tonight.
SG
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Old 01-05-2010, 12:36   #2189
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Lone_Wolfe I've debated with myself for a long time
about mentioning this, but I'm going to tell you a
true story.

Last year Wrencher and I were going to lunch.
We weren't off of work property yet. Seconds
in front of us there was an accident between a
motorcycle and a car. The driver of the bike was
fully "dressed" helmet, armour clothing etc.
The passenger was wearing jeans and a t-shirt.
The passenger was just getting a joy ride on
private property. Big circular drive. The driver of
the car was leaving campus.

I don't think it's appropriate to describe the scene,
but the outcome was this. Driver of car, hysterical shouting
that he hit them. Driver of the bike, alive, but severely
hurt. Passenger of the bike, under the car, with a broken
neck. Not alive. This was three 18 year old boys.

We were the first people on this, and the only ones for a while.
I think about both drivers often. I think about how they likely feel.
This really could have been prevented, but two young men, the bike
driver lived, much to my surprise, are still here with their lives
ahead of them.

What do you think they should do? I don't expect you to answer that
question in here. Just please, think about it, looking in from the
outside.

Sawgrass
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Old 01-05-2010, 14:39   #2190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 23skidoo View Post
: hugs:
Those hugs would sure feel good right now, especially your gentle ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr View Post
Well crap,...........
I wrote a good bit when I edited that and looks like I screwed that up!

How's the heating pad working out for you? It's super chilly here today, was 48 this morning. : faint:

Brown Hawk is giving some good advice. You will never be at peace until
you face your fears, confront them and understand them.
Only then will you be able to shake off the nightmares.

I realize there is a BIG difference between listening to people telling you what
they believe you need to do and think. Some of us have delt with these issues before,
wether with ourselves, friends or subordinates.

You do know you are welcome to join us at the Orange Bowl,......
get your butt moving. Kick-off is in about 9 hours! : hugs:
48?!?! It was about 38 and raining this morning! As you can probably guess I've been up close and personal with that heating pad as much as possible all day. It's letting off some tonight. the heating pad is working pretty good, and I thank you again.

I know Brown Hawk and several others are and I'm listening even if it seems like I'm not. Sometimes it just seems like more than I can do to face this crap in my head. I haven't given up, though.

Wish I could make it over there for the football game!
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To those who have made the ultimate sacrifice while defending American freedom, you will not be forgotten.

RIP my friends Greg and Florence, see you again on the other side.
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RIP Jeff (23Skidoo) - 1962-2012 and Gloria (Silent_Runner) - 1964-2013
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Old 01-05-2010, 16:10   #2191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawgrass View Post
Wolfe, the goat lovers can't win this fight.
Use whatever helps you put all of this in its place.

It seems like a long time ago that I said guilt is a
useless emotion. I still believe it is. I don't
think it matters if it's false or not. Things happen,
sometimes we could have prevented it, sometimes
not. The end result is the same.

I think at this point "character" takes over. If you
are a decent person and someone suffered because
of something you think you did, you feel bad.
Whether that's true or not, doesn't matter. What matters
is what you do with the lessons, values, integrity you personally
have or learned. If you remain in some guilt ridden state,
it suffocates the life right out of you. Little good comes
of it.

Sleep well tonight.
SG
Well, the goat lovers didn't win today. They may have thought they would, but they didn't and this day's about over for me. Thank god for that.

You know every time I do start to think maybe I'll be OK and finally forgive myself I find myself wondering what kind of person would just think it's OK that someone else died like that for them. I don't know if it's useless or not, but it's here and seems like it's not going away.



Quote:
Originally Posted by engineer151515 View Post
back

P. S. Be careful hugging Silent_Runner, she has bats......



In the belfrey.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Geeorge View Post
You're cats must be getting fat ,the one sitting on me feels like 500lbs.

Or maybe it was the long cold day at work : wavey:

: hugs:
The thought of one or both of those Siameesies laying on me is appealing, but the 500lb part does not. This was one of those days I already felt you drove your brown truck over my chest. I'm glad Mandy's a lightweight. back

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Hawk View Post
Let's see. You've got a Physical terrorist, a Psycho terrorist, and a Drunk Doc. (Not because he's drunk now, but because it'll take about three years of concentrated effort to down all the drinks he's been promised here)
Different approach, same objective. Face what happened, sort out the true from the false, ditch the false, and move on. Sounds like I need to buy her a beer as well.

As far as the good advice, yes there is a lot. And it has helped. But the pace has to be yours, not anyone else's. If you had only the physical problems, or only the emotional problems, yes you would be further. But the problems in each area hinder recovery in the other area. You're improving, just keep moving one step at a time.

Love, prayers, lots of gentle , and (mentally) cradling you as you sleep,

Hawk

Actually her approach and her objective are a bit different. Face what happened and come to terms with it. I asked her recently if she thought the guilt was false and said back. ďDo you think itís false?Ē I said ne and she said ďThereís your answer. The guilt you feel is very real. You have to reach a point where you can accept it without it having power over you like it does. Itís much like your pain in your chest in that it wonít ever go completely away. The goal is for you to be able to channel that guilt and pain in a positive directionĒ. She went on to explain that guilt like this is actually more common that some people realize, for example a Drill Sergeant might feel responsible for the death of a soldier he trained years ago. Iíve also talked with people who have had soldiers under their command die, I donít know if I could handle that. Feeling like I do over someone not in my unit and who outranked me anyway is bad enough.

BTW, my shrink is prettier that I am (which isnít saying much these days) and she wears a wedding ring. Let me ask you this. If youíre going to buy my doc three years worth of beer, what are you going to do for my medic? I mean the one who mashed my chest for 4 hours. And for that matter, what about the medical staff at the first hospital I was taken too. I understand they really had their work cut out for them. I think Iíll just have to open a brewery to take care of all of them, since thereís no other way to repay any of them.

Oh, and I googled pics on Green Flashes. People have actually gotten great pics. They had to have the camera ready to go in order to get those, but thereís some pretty ones out there.




Like I said, thankfully this day is over and I got to go. Night everyone!
__________________
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To those who have made the ultimate sacrifice while defending American freedom, you will not be forgotten.

RIP my friends Greg and Florence, see you again on the other side.
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RIP Jeff (23Skidoo) - 1962-2012 and Gloria (Silent_Runner) - 1964-2013
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Old 01-05-2010, 16:17   #2192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone_Wolfe View Post
Actually her approach and her objective are a bit different. Face what happened and come to terms with it. I asked her recently if she thought the guilt was false and said back. ďDo you think itís false?Ē I said ne and she said ďThereís your answer. The guilt you feel is very real. You have to reach a point where you can accept it without it having power over you like it does. Itís much like your pain in your chest in that it wonít ever go completely away. The goal is for you to be able to channel that guilt and pain in a positive directionĒ. She went on to explain that guilt like this is actually more common that some people realize, for example a Drill Sergeant might feel responsible for the death of a soldier he trained years ago. Iíve also talked with people who have had soldiers under their command die, I donít know if I could handle that. Feeling like I do over someone not in my unit and who outranked me anyway is bad enough.
Hmmm.. where have I heard THAT before?
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Old 01-05-2010, 18:26   #2193
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I hate to beat a dead horse. Whatever that means. But, Texas Bob gave you some great advice regarding the guilt. It isn't that you are going to forget what Greg did, but if you can live your life as though in memory of him, it would allow you to feel a healthy level of sadness for his loss, but not the paralyzing guilt. If you could do special things in his memory, like find out what his causes were and make even handmade donations to them.

My dad died in August, 12 years ago and I felt so lonely for him. When his birthday came around that October, I decided to do something on behalf of his memory. He had always had a soft spot for people in prison. I collected two big boxes of books for the county jail. Most of them had a Christian prison theme. It was a healthy way of expressing my sadness, sharing with someone else. You know how good it feels to pass on a kindness.

We have no idea what peace of mind you could provide for those who loved Greg, by sharing your story of how he died a hero. I have a feeling they would cling to you as a connection to him. If you would share with them what you have shared here, they would no doubt encourage you to rid yourself of the guilt. Just imagine how you could change this guilt into feeling a new lease on life if you were to do things in Greg's memory. It would be cathartic for you and mean a lot to his family, as it would to Greg. You have nothing to fear, dear friend. Gentle
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Old 01-05-2010, 19:28   #2194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone_Wolfe View Post
...

Actually her approach and her objective are a bit different. Face what happened and come to terms with it. I asked her recently if she thought the guilt was false and said back. ďDo you think itís false?Ē I said ne and she said ďThereís your answer. The guilt you feel is very real. You have to reach a point where you can accept it without it having power over you like it does. Itís much like your pain in your chest in that it wonít ever go completely away. The goal is for you to be able to channel that guilt and pain in a positive directionĒ. She went on to explain that guilt like this is actually more common that some people realize, for example a Drill Sergeant might feel responsible for the death of a soldier he trained years ago. Iíve also talked with people who have had soldiers under their command die, I donít know if I could handle that. Feeling like I do over someone not in my unit and who outranked me anyway is bad enough.

BTW, my shrink is prettier that I am (which isnít saying much these days) and she wears a wedding ring. Let me ask you this. If youíre going to buy my doc three years worth of beer, Actually, I was referring to all the beers that got promised when he recognized your overdose and allergic reactions and took over your case. I only promised him a case. what are you going to do for my medic? I mean the one who mashed my chest for 4 hours. And for that matter, what about the medical staff at the first hospital I was taken too. I understand they really had their work cut out for them. I think Iíll just have to open a brewery to take care of all of them, since thereís no other way to repay any of them.

Oh, and I googled pics on Green Flashes. People have actually gotten great pics. They had to have the camera ready to go in order to get those, but thereís some pretty ones out there. I know. Better film, then digital.
Actually, same objective, different approach. I prefer to have you realize that you really had nothing to do with his death except that he was trying to get you to safety. And that is probably because I prefer recognizing the truth to accepting anything less, but that is me. What I want is for you to get past it and move on with the rest of your life. I've seen people "feel" guilty when they were not in any really rational sense, and it led to problems later.

And if you contact his family, simply say "His action saved my life, and possibly the lives of others who might have died had he not acted as he did."

As far as your Psycho Doc, I would say that feeling guilty doesn't make you guilty. But the feeling is a problem that has to be handled and moved beyond. That's where I want you to be, and if you get there by ignoring me and labeling me a dunce, I'll be just as happy as if the opposite happens.

Love, prayers, lots of gentle , and (mentally) cradling you as you sleep,

Hawk
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Old 01-05-2010, 20:16   #2195
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Hi LW

Just keep taking things 1 step at a time. The journey, is long and the only way you will complete it is 1 step at a time. You have taken the first few steps. You just have to keep taking those steps. We are here for you if you fall, and will help you back up. We will give you the support you need, to complete the journey.

I know that Greg, would not want you to continue on the way things are right now. Even though I never knew Greg, I know that he would not want you feeling the way you do. Neither you or any of us, will ever forget what Greg did. The best way to honor this man, is for you to make a complete recovery. That way, you, Greg and the rest of us, will know that those Afghani sh**heads, didn't win.

and prayers for you, my friend.
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Old 01-06-2010, 02:20   #2196
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As per your request my dear, as gentle as I can make them.
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Old 01-06-2010, 02:50   #2197
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1:48am Az time - Wed 1/6

"Sorry, the mow-by-uhll number you are trying to reach is either switched off or ....."

Poop! Didja forget to plug it into the charger again?

{{{{{{{{{{{{{gentle huggletts}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
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Old 01-06-2010, 06:59   #2198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobInTX View Post
Hmmm.. where have I heard THAT before?
Bob the makes me wonder if it bothers you that my shrink said something very similar to what you did??

While your comment seems to say that I should channel my guilt toward good works and I took her comment to mean that I should channel my guilt toward healing I think you're both barking up pretty much the same tree here. Certainly both your post and her statement to me have a good message for me.

If I got your intent wrong please forgive me. It can be hard to read a person's intent on here sometimes.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock26girl View Post
I hate to beat a dead horse. Whatever that means. But, Texas Bob gave you some great advice regarding the guilt. It isn't that you are going to forget what Greg did, but if you can live your life as though in memory of him, it would allow you to feel a healthy level of sadness for his loss, but not the paralyzing guilt. If you could do special things in his memory, like find out what his causes were and make even handmade donations to them.

My dad died in August, 12 years ago and I felt so lonely for him. When his birthday came around that October, I decided to do something on behalf of his memory. He had always had a soft spot for people in prison. I collected two big boxes of books for the county jail. Most of them had a Christian prison theme. It was a healthy way of expressing my sadness, sharing with someone else. You know how good it feels to pass on a kindness.

We have no idea what peace of mind you could provide for those who loved Greg, by sharing your story of how he died a hero. I have a feeling they would cling to you as a connection to him. If you would share with them what you have shared here, they would no doubt encourage you to rid yourself of the guilt. Just imagine how you could change this guilt into feeling a new lease on life if you were to do things in Greg's memory. It would be cathartic for you and mean a lot to his family, as it would to Greg. You have nothing to fear, dear friend. Gentle :hugs :
G26girl youíve been so wonderful and kind toward me that I really feel bad about what Iím going to say, but I want to be upfront with you. That and I donít want folks pushing this idea.

Thereís no way Iíll ever make contact with Gregís family. Twice in my life Iíve had very bad experiences with families of someone I loved who died, and was treated like I was to blame even though I wasnít. The first time it was my husbandís family. The extent of my guilt in that case was to be in the passenger seat of the car he was driving when a drunk driver hit his side of the car. It took years for them to understand how that made something already so painful even worse.

The second time I had broken up with someone Iíd been with for a couple years and a week later he ran his car into a tree. Accident or intentional, weíll never know. His family blames me to this day. Please donít think I donít appreciate you coming in here talking to me, but I canít make myself contact his family at all.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 23skidoo View Post
As per your request my dear, as gentle as I can make them. : hugs:
Sweetheart, that just means you'll be able to longer since your arms won't get tired as quickly.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MB-G26 View Post
"Sorry, the mow-by-uhll number you are trying to reach is either switched off or ....."

Poop! Didja forget to plug it into the charger again? : whistling:

{{{{{{{{{{{{{gentle huggletts}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Well, you got through, gotta love this haji-net connection.... Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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To those who have made the ultimate sacrifice while defending American freedom, you will not be forgotten.

RIP my friends Greg and Florence, see you again on the other side.
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RIP Jeff (23Skidoo) - 1962-2012 and Gloria (Silent_Runner) - 1964-2013
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:09   #2199
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Cursed connection just went dead!
__________________
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To those who have made the ultimate sacrifice while defending American freedom, you will not be forgotten.

RIP my friends Greg and Florence, see you again on the other side.
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:14   #2200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone_Wolfe View Post
Cursed connection just went dead!
#&$^%@(%& !!!! ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FARGIN HADJINET!!!!!!

Ok, this is what I was trying to ask about:

Okie Memorial Area

Now, they don't get anywhere as hot as a regular heating pad (and I need mine to be literally scalding hot) but it MIGHT be something that could provide some marginal relief for when you have to be up and going and whatnot. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...=Google+Search

The other thing I was trying to say (man, that call quality was so bad I think we'd have been clearer if you were on the freaking moon! ) was, can you PM me your mailing address for over there? Ya never know when I might get some cookies made - once I get to Flag.... which I was all set to leave last night and then I discovered that sumbeechin' lump in my boob.
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I am slowly falling apart - I wish you'd take a walk in my shoes for a start. You might think it's easy being me ... Sometimes I find myself shaking - In the middle of the night. And then it hits me and I can't - Even believe this is my life
(The Wreckers; "Stand Still; Look Pretty")
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Nov 11, 2013 at 16:42