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Old 03-11-2009, 06:09   #21
ranger88
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Originally Posted by smoke5643 View Post
Hello to all! I have been reading these forums for some time now and this topic really sparked my interest to join and throw in my two cents. ATP Inc. is an outstanding gun shop with knowledgeable employees and fair pricing. I am sorry to hear of your unfortunate experience there but I promise you it is not normally like that. Maybe the employ was having a bad day (no excuse to be rude I understand that...) I would also assume that when he meant high he meant that it was expensive in general not that their pricing on it was outrageous. Tim and Keith are both outstanding business men. They have been partners for over 20 years and have never failed at any business venture. I ensure you that if you talk to either two of them or myself you will be treated respectfully. Understand we stock hundreds of different guns. Our ignorance is no excuse but we cant know everything about every gun we carry especially when its the first one we have ever had. If you are never a patron of our establishment again I would obviously understand, but I personally guarantee that Tim, my father Keith , or myself will ensure your next visit to be pleasant and professional. Thank you for letting us know that our customer service during your visit was unacceptable! Any and all feedback is welcome to make sure all our customers feel appreciated and respected.

Sincerely,

Adam Queen
Asst. Manager
American Tactical and Pawn
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I do applaud you for responding to the OP's complaint. And if I were in your area, I would give you a second chance. Just my two cents....
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:04   #22
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Adam,
While I don't have a dog in this fight as I don't consider it a fight (reference to previous post by ranger88), I continue to have issues with your store. I have gotten feedback from others in the area that shared they had similar experiences. One individual even told me the person I dealt with has a long history of not knowing what he is talking about and talking down to customers. I was also told he has been warned about his attitude repeatedly in the past (this was from someone who is friends with the owner). These statements are evidence to me this was not an isolated incident. If you are blind to his attitude, then that is seriously problematic.

When someone is asking questions regarding an item, to give a general answer of "high" and pretty much leave it at that is beyond obnoxious. It is a tactic of dismissal for whatever reason. The person obviously didn't want my business. Since I was in the mood to buy, he screwed the pooch for himself (if on commission) and your store.

While I appreciate your apology, I don't see myself returning as I doubt the individual I dealt with is gone or has changed. Years ago I worked as an executive in the business world. I know that truly you get only one chance to make a first impression and how important that impression is. My impression of your outfit is poor to say the least.

Also, since your "apology" contains more than just an apology, it is rather an attempt to save face and possibly promote your store on a firearms forum (your primary customer base) I smell that perhaps the apology may not be genuine. Further, you addressed your statement as "Hello to all" rather than to me which appears to validate my concern. Lastly regarding your statement, "I would also assume that when he meant..." is providing an excuse for him even though you just stated, "...no excuse to be rude...." I truly feel this is a marketing response to the public rather than an attempt at validating and/or apologizing for the horrible experience I had with your staff. This is not the construct of a true apology.

While I may be an educated man and look at words as well as the content and intent of language more than most, I think most could see through to the meat of your statement.

Feel free to respond. I doubt I will reply as I have said my piece, then again, who knows. If folks want to shop at your store, they are certainly free to do so. I will not be one of them.

I do hope you will spend some time with your staff on the importance of good customer service. It is key in establishing new customers and maintaining repeat customers. It is probably the single most important issue with me including price. If my initial experience had been different, I would have been willing to overlook your higher prices. Instead, I have found other places to spend my hard earned cash and am avoiding your establishment.
Sincerely,
apup
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:31   #23
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While you are right about it not likely being the owner of the shop, I stand behind my not returning to their store and my report of poor customer service and high prices. Since I had such a pitiful experience, I only know what the stickers say. I don't know about a negotiated price as the poor excuse for salesmen I tried to get information from either couldn't answer my questions or simply blew me off.

I recently learned it was likely a relative of the owner whom he employs who had the chip on his shoulder. I have also learned the poor attitude I experienced is reportedly often complained about yet there he is running people off. I hold the owner responsible as he employs his relative and is ultimately responsible for what goes on there.

In business, customer service is often more important that pricing. Folks get one chance to make a first impression and my impression of that shop is not good to say the least. If the owner wants customers, return customers, and loyalty, I highly suggest he get a handle on his staff, including relatives.

I have served in executive positions in the business, medical and public service worlds. I have high customer service standards and I expect to be treated well when I consider departing with my hard-earned cash.

American Tactical & Pawn seriously screwed up and I have every right in warning others of my experience. Sorry you disagree. Further, those who read this thread will read your comments as well and they can make their choices accordingly.


On a more upbeat side note, welcome to GT.
Give 'em hell, don't allow them to have a bad day. There is one place that I go that always talks about stuff being "high" and that is because they are ashamed to have to charge the prices. They explain what it cost them and how "high" their costs really are,
but don't let something like that stand in your way ....
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Old 03-11-2009, 09:14   #24
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I have had several experiences like this lately. Websites or rave reviews get me interested in a particular store because I learn so much about their postive customer feedback and dedication to serving the shooting public. I spend a lot of money on establishments and I am loyal to the ones that treat me reasonably. I don't require anything specific, just reasonable treatment. I do my research and looking and asking ahead of time; if I have a question it is because a purchase is imminent and I need information from the owner/operator about an issue that I could not get the info from anywhere else.

When I am treated rudely or dismissed because the owner knows he will sell all his stock in this market anyway, I choose to not support that owner with my business. I do understand bad days/moods/whatever, and I am flexible enough to slough some of that off. But I don't forget, and IF the owner gets multiple chances, he will only earn my business by having making a high percentage of those chances reasonable transactions.

I know people are busy and get a lot of traffic now from people who know nothing about guns and are more like gawkers or rubberneckers than anything, but I am not one of them, and typically my purchase history shows it. It is the business owner's job to figure that out. The businesses that will survive the burst of this market (whether due to new bans, satiation of the market, or continued economic downturn) will be the ones that are remembered for taking the time to deal reasonably with their customers and not treat them as money-bag cattle. A business owner's employees are his agents; the owner is responsible for the actions of his employees. Without a reasonable explanation for how or why an employee's negative actions should be overlooed, they are representative of the business and owner.

I have dealt with businesses that I know are busy because it took me a long time to get through on the phone, and I acknowledge this to them. If they choose to rush me to purchase or dismiss me as a bother, my money and I will go elsewhere. If you accept my word that I have pared down my questions to the essential info that I can't get anywhere else, and want me as a continued customer, treat me reasonably. Offer to call me back when you have a better time to answer questions. Heck, just tell me straight up that you only have time for quick orders and that you don't need my business right now. While you might not get a second chance at it, at least you're a step above the business that fools itself into thinking I'll buy from them no matter what.

You don't even have to be polite - just don't be rude. If you assume and treat me like I am one of the entitled-newbie-hoarder people scrabbling to suddenly demand great service and great prices and just wants to buy because I'm in a panic, and will never give you more business, then I will asume that you are just trying to make a quick buck and that you don't want my business. I will take my business elsewhere. I will not forget the businesses that have treated me reasonably. I WILL forget about the businesses that don't.

I don't fault the OP for not giving a second chance based on his 'research'. He went in based on a positive recommendation, was treated poorly, and now has heard negative recommendations. If I were a business owner in this situation, I would either try to earn the person's business back (I would offer more than a statement that it doesn't happen often, or with certain employees), or write this person off as a customer. I would make sure that my employees treated my customers as I want them to - as potential lifetime customers. Especially now, employees are easier to replace than paying customers.

Every job has taught me to 'leave everything at the door." When I go to work, I am there to work to further the business. My personal problems are NOT allowed at work. People too often use "I was having a bad day" to try to excuse their behavior. There is no excuse for poor behavior. There may be a reasonable explanation which would earn my business again, but there is no 'excuse'. The customer's 'excuse' for not giving his money to a business is poor treatment by that business. In business regarding THIS ISSUE, the customer IS always right.
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Old 03-15-2009, 22:50   #25
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apup,

The reason I chose to start off like that we because it was my first post not to be disrespectful to you in any way. I understand how you could take my apology as a "joke" because tone of voice and emotion are hard to express soley in writing. Furthermore, my paragraph was not meant to be a "plug" in any way. We have advertisment set up that is meant to handle that. I find it hard to believe that our prices are as high as you say they are. I doubt you will find and place to buy Glocks any cheaper. Also, our prices are negotiable if within reason because we always want to make the sell and keep our customer pleased. Obviously we cant sell too cheap or our bills would not get paid and our doors would be closed. I can tell that we will most likely never have your business due to your experience but all I can ask is that you keep an open mind when telling people about us. Let them make their own decision once they come by the store. I know more people that love our customer service and pricing than do not. I have return customers that come in daily and say what a pleasurable experience they had and that they will always do business with us again. However, if the day comes when you reconsider your decision I will be more than happy to assist you with anything that I possibly can. Once again I apologize for any inconvience we may have caused.

Adam

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Old 03-16-2009, 09:18   #26
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apup,

The reason I chose to start off like that we because it was my first post not to be disrespectful to you in any way. I understand how you could take my apology as a "joke" because tone of voice and emotion are hard to express soley in writing. Furthermore, my paragraph was not meant to be a "plug" in any way. We have advertisment set up that is meant to handle that. I find it hard to believe that our prices are as high as you say they are. I doubt you will find and place to buy Glocks any cheaper. Also, our prices are negotiable if within reason because we always want to make the sell and keep our customer pleased. Obviously we cant sell too cheap or our bills would not get paid and our doors would be closed. I can tell that we will most likely never have your business due to your experience but all I can ask is that you keep an open mind when telling people about us. Let them my their own decision once they come by the store. I know more people that love our customer service and pricing than do not. I have return customers that come in daily and say what a pleasurable experience they had and that they will always do business with us and us alone. However, if the day comes when you reconsider your decision I will be more than happy to assist you with anything that I possibly can. Once again I apologize for any inconvience we may have caused.

Adam
Adam,
You touched a chord in me that I have a hard time believing so I will again respond. Your statement, "...but all I can ask is that you keep an open mind when telling people about us. Let them my their own decision once they come by the store." is kind of silly. Don't you think?

The whole point of my post and the comments I've made in person to many folks who also enjoy firearms is to warn them of my experience. I DON'T know that your outfit is customer service oriented as you claim. My experience was poor at best. Why would I want to keep my mouth shut and let one of my friends or associates visit your store without sharing my experience? Give me a break!!! I will warn them so they don't have a similar experience!

Truly, this is a wonderful lesson in business. You MUST treat your customers with respect if you want them to say good things or even keep their mouths shut as you suggest I do.

Sir, you have compounded my annoyance and frustration through your continued poor attempts at "customer service." In your first post you dismiss and invalidate my experience by "excusing" the event. In this post you try to persuade me to shut up. And, in both posts you share that your other customers have no problems. It appears to me that your primary position is trying to save face. I sincerely doubt you have conducted a survey of all who have entered your store's doors so your opinion of having satisfied customers hardly carries any merit.

As for your prices, I have addressed it at least twice. I will simply say that $1300+ for the several AR15s I saw was high. As for negotiation, I have to get adequate help before I learn that and since I didn't get that help, I will have to take your word for it. Also, I don't know what your definition of "within reason" is.

Further, it was likely your Dad who was so rude to me. I don't know this for fact though. If I am correct however, that could either blind/bias you to the issues at hand or push you even more into protecting him and the business. Again, I don't know this to be fact however. This is me trying to piece this thing together from observation on the day I was there combined with comments from others since.

On the day I was there, I was waiting patiently trying to get someone to price a couple of firearms back in the corner. I think it might have been you who was dealing with a guy who was looking at a North American Arms revolver and offered to put $50 down on a lay-away. You walked away and talked with a guy dressed in all black (who was the one who was so rude) and returned and informed the guy that you didn't lay firearms away but could hold it until the end of the week. The guy was waiting on his tax return and said he couldn't do it as he didn't know when his tax return would come. The guy in black that you spoke to however made a comment about this "hold" in a rather harsh and obnoxious tone. I was embarrassed for the man wanting to lay-away the revolver.

Now, that situation shows some flexibility however I had already been treated poorly by this point and was still trying to give you all a second chance. I wasn't impressed by this attempt to meet that guy's needs as I didn't like the guy in black's superior tone and attitude and I was still waiting for help. I stood there for quite a while and still didn't get any help from anyone who could answer my questions. I was the guy who had a toddler-aged son in my arms. I left shortly thereafter.

Too bad my experience wasn't better. I would much prefer to have good things to say. I won't however keep my mouth shut as you suggest. I will tell everyone I have opportunity to tell about my experience. That is what business, customer service, and even competition are all about. I hope your staff all learn from this experience and treat your customers better.

Remember, your competition located not too far from you seems to get it. I did not have a bad experience with them when I visited their store at the suggestion from one of the posts above.
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Old 03-16-2009, 10:11   #27
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After reading the enitre thread I'm reminded that you can't please all the people all the time.
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Old 03-16-2009, 10:37   #28
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After reading the enitre thread I'm reminded that you can't please all the people all the time.
Especially true when you treat them disrespectfully. You have a better chance of establishing customers and maintaining customers when you provide positive worthwhile experiences.
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Old 04-17-2009, 17:38   #29
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Updated to share of another experience.

A buddy who was my "inside source" kept urging me to give AT&P another chance. He works in Shelby and is a regular at the shop. After he badgered me enough, I went back. I didn't let Adam know it was me (as he asked me to do in one of the posts above) because I didn't want anyone putting on the dog. I simply wanted to see how they treated me and others.

Well, I have to say it was a much better experience this time. What I saw and experienced this time around was much different than the first.

I was treated with respect and my interaction with the staff was much more helpful. While the first experience is still in the back of my mind and have tainted things, after this new experience, I will likely be going back in the future.

I rarely give stores another chance but in this case I am glad I did. I wish AT&P the best and will likely be visiting them again sometime in the future.

apup
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Old 04-17-2009, 22:21   #30
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Hello to all! I have been reading these forums for some time now and this topic really sparked my interest to join and throw in my two cents. ATP Inc. is an outstanding gun shop with knowledgeable employees and fair pricing. I am sorry to hear of your unfortunate experience there but I promise you it is not normally like that. Maybe the employ was having a bad day (no excuse to be rude I understand that...) I would also assume that when he meant high he meant that it was expensive in general not that their pricing on it was outrageous. Tim and Keith are both outstanding business men. They have been partners for over 20 years and have never failed at any business venture. I ensure you that if you talk to either two of them or myself you will be treated respectfully. Understand we stock hundreds of different guns. Our ignorance is no excuse but we cant know everything about every gun we carry especially when its the first one we have ever had. If you are never a patron of our establishment again I would obviously understand, but I personally guarantee that Tim, my father Keith , or myself will ensure your next visit to be pleasant and professional. Thank you for letting us know that our customer service during your visit was unacceptable! Any and all feedback is welcome to make sure all our customers feel appreciated and respected.

Sincerely,

Adam Queen
Asst. Manager
American Tactical and Pawn
Is this post a violation of the TOS? If not, it should be. If these guys want to advertise their store, let them buy some ad space.
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Old 04-17-2009, 23:21   #31
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Updated to share of another experience.

A buddy who was my "inside source" kept urging me to give AT&P another chance. He works in Shelby and is a regular at the shop. After he badgered me enough, I went back. I didn't let Adam know it was me (as he asked me to do in one of the posts above) because I didn't want anyone putting on the dog. I simply wanted to see how they treated me and others.

Well, I have to say it was a much better experience this time. What I saw and experienced this time around was much different than the first.

I was treated with respect and my interaction with the staff was much more helpful. While the first experience is still in the back of my mind and have tainted things, after this new experience, I will likely be going back in the future.

I rarely give stores another chance but in this case I am glad I did. I wish AT&P the best and will likely be visiting them again sometime in the future.

apup
glad it was better the second time, sometimes i give a place a second and sometimes 3 rd time but after 3 times and i have bad experience then i will never go back .
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umm excuse me are those extragent circus pants you have on ?? or do you work for a circus ?
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Old 04-18-2009, 05:54   #32
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Is this post a violation of the TOS? If not, it should be. If these guys want to advertise their store, let them buy some ad space.
I say let 'em defend their actions. But if it borders on or is advertising, close 'em down! (the thread, that is, not the business...I am not that harsh...)
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Old 04-18-2009, 06:15   #33
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We had three pawn shops in my area that used to sell guns. I used to love browsing them on a rainy weekend day. I never bought anything because of their high prices.

All three shops are now closed, their owners are in jail. The BATFE caught them selling guns out the back door. Now I know why their prices were so high. It kept their inventory up for the back door sales.

Now on rainy weekends, I troll the local Wal Marts in search of cheap ammunition. The pawn shops were more entertaining.
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Old 06-17-2009, 16:53   #34
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I visit the store weekly and get the apreciation by those guys treating me well and sometimes the $$$$ I pay shows it. Not to be a jerk but I guess you not coming in leaves more glocks for me....but I see you have given the shop a 2nd try so I better snag my afordable Glock now :( before someone else keeps getting my 3rd G19 when I have the funds!! Where else in this price hike can you get a G19 for $495??????

Yup - sounds like price gauging bunch of jerks right. From spending time in truely bad shops like hyatts in charlotte and shooters express where the jack up prices and really have an eat me attitude I think Big John, Adam, and Tim's crew are above par my friend.

There not going to go out of the way to greet you like a restaurant greeter or "make your day" talking to you like a car salesman, but I don't go in there for that. I like the prices on "most" stuff and what I think is too high I don't buy from that store.I have several online suppliers I deal with and also know by name and still find time to give Tim's store my $$$ when I have it. Getting more G19 mags tomorrow if I can get by there
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Old 06-17-2009, 19:42   #35
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I visit the store weekly and get the apreciation by those guys treating me well and sometimes the $$$$ I pay shows it. Not to be a jerk but I guess you not coming in leaves more glocks for me....but I see you have given the shop a 2nd try so I better snag my afordable Glock now :( before someone else keeps getting my 3rd G19 when I have the funds!! Where else in this price hike can you get a G19 for $495??????

Yup - sounds like price gauging bunch of jerks right. From spending time in truely bad shops like hyatts in charlotte and shooters express where the jack up prices and really have an eat me attitude I think Big John, Adam, and Tim's crew are above par my friend.

There not going to go out of the way to greet you like a restaurant greeter or "make your day" talking to you like a car salesman, but I don't go in there for that. I like the prices on "most" stuff and what I think is too high I don't buy from that store.I have several online suppliers I deal with and also know by name and still find time to give Tim's store my $$$ when I have it. Getting more G19 mags tomorrow if I can get by there
blgoode,
I found your website three years or so ago while frequenting a knifemaking website. I have been and am impressed with your work. Beautiful knives. I have some knifemaking equipment myself however don't have your talent and experience. I have only dabbled with it minimally as time is something that seems to be evasive these days. Would love to visit your shop one of these days.

Thank you for editing your original post. Yes, I have given AT&P a second chance. While not a hang out for me, it is not a place I avoid now.

Take care,
apup
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Old 06-17-2009, 20:22   #36
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apup,
I can give all the asssistance I can with knifemaking. Just ask a lot of questions and allow mistakes to happen because that's 1 less mistake in the big scheme of things. The forums are a far greater source of information than any books you can buy. All I have is a KMG grinder, drill press and a Harbor Freight metal bandsaw and a set of acedaline torches starting out and the heat treat oven and rockwell tester came much later.

If you have any questions shoot me an email.
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:10   #37
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apup,
I can give all the asssistance I can with knifemaking. Just ask a lot of questions and allow mistakes to happen because that's 1 less mistake in the big scheme of things. The forums are a far greater source of information than any books you can buy. All I have is a KMG grinder, drill press and a Harbor Freight metal bandsaw and a set of acedaline torches starting out and the heat treat oven and rockwell tester came much later.

If you have any questions shoot me an email.
Sounds great. I have a Grizzly grinder, the HF metal bandsaw, and knife kiln. I may be shooting some emails your way in the near future.
Thanks again,
apup
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Old 06-19-2009, 06:29   #38
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apup,

The reason I chose to start off like that we because it was my first post not to be disrespectful to you in any way. I understand how you could take my apology as a "joke" because tone of voice and emotion are hard to express soley in writing. Furthermore, my paragraph was not meant to be a "plug" in any way. We have advertisment set up that is meant to handle that. I find it hard to believe that our prices are as high as you say they are. I doubt you will find and place to buy Glocks any cheaper. Also, our prices are negotiable if within reason because we always want to make the sell and keep our customer pleased. Obviously we cant sell too cheap or our bills would not get paid and our doors would be closed. I can tell that we will most likely never have your business due to your experience but all I can ask is that you keep an open mind when telling people about us. Let them make their own decision once they come by the store. I know more people that love our customer service and pricing than do not. I have return customers that come in daily and say what a pleasurable experience they had and that they will always do business with us again. However, if the day comes when you reconsider your decision I will be more than happy to assist you with anything that I possibly can. Once again I apologize for any inconvience we may have caused.

Adam
I'd say give these folks another chance. I've tried the harda** routine before and have always regretted it. Cost me money in the end. Hell you'll probably get a lot better service now since you had the smarts to bring this info out in the open for us all to hear about.
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Old 06-28-2009, 18:34   #39
Wolf36
Distance09
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1
I have been to a number of gun shops where the employees feel like it is a great imposition to wait on you unless they know you. It is like walking into some private club and not knowing the secret handshake. It is both tiring and aggravating. It is my experience that the owner is generally not there when this kind of behavior is displayed. More often than not these guys do not know the answers to the most basic of questions either so they are doing the buyer and the owner a tremendous disservice.

Everyone is entitled to have a bad day, a pattern of boring or bad behavior and ignorance however, is inexcusable.

Most of us have a limited amount of money to spend. Right now it is not as though it is growing on trees. I try to spend mine where I not only get a decent deal but where I feel that my business is truly appreciated. If I have to spend a little more to get the service I desire I do.
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Old 01-06-2013, 18:39   #40
gotama
JBC
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1
American Tactican and Pawn Shelby NC

I live in Shelby NC. I am 50 years old and have bought and sold many a gun in my day. ATP in Shelby is by far one of the worst gun shops that I have ever had the displeasure of visiting. The employees are not so much rude as they are uncaring as to whether or not one is in the store or not. I got the impression that they could give a flying ##it if I was in the store or not. I know from experience that they like taliking on the phone regarding non- business related matters. I know from experience that they are usually unfriendly and unhelpful. I know the owner. He is a decent enough guy. The employees that I have been forced to deal with are dismissive and nonchalant. Prices are retail and they are either too ignorant or arrogant or both to give a crap that one can go to another local shop in Gastonia NC that will deal with you as if you pay their salary...(Which of course customers do) It gives me no pleasure to write this. I sincerely wish they were better.
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