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Old 06-16-2013, 07:23   #101
tonyparson
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I bought my three PSA builds early on. Mine are great quality and reliability.

Yes PSA has made some mistakes. When you have 80+ employees standing around and it's hard to find stock to sell, yea they screwed up handling some unknown products and they've stood behind it and paid for it and hopefully learned from it.

But these same PSA haters been haters since day one and through time look and grab onto any mistake to justify thier hate. These same guys would hate PSA and Spikes too no matter what but overlook any and every BCM screwup.
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Old 06-16-2013, 15:29   #102
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I'd rather have a BCM, DD, or Colt BCG. Even if I wasn't going to use the rifle for a serious application. Until brand X parts are proven, I wouldn't waste my money on them.

Sticking with what's been proven to work usually means less grief and regret later on.

Buy once and cry once.

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Old 06-16-2013, 18:33   #103
Jason D
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Originally Posted by NEOH212 View Post
I'd rather have a BCM, DD, or Colt BCG. Even if I wasn't going to use the rifle for a serious application. Until brand X parts are proven, I wouldn't waste my money on them.

Sticking with what's been proven to work usually means less grief and regret later on.

Buy once and cry once.

I have read the "list", and do tend to agree with some of it. It seems now though that milspec means the best, when it used to mean good enough and cheap.

When I was shooting highpower I was shooting thousands of rounds a year though guns that people now poo poo. To be fair though they are original Bushmaster guns, and not the Remington guns people seem to hate.

While I tried to talk my Dad out of it, he went ahead and bought a Bushmaster Carbon 15. This is one of those guns that everyone seems to hate. We ran 2K rounds though it since be bought it.

Now I wouldn't buy one, but it seems like people could do worse. I noticed the local dealer has some DPMS A2 carbines in stock for 699. Everyone that has better guns seems to hate them too, but for the price it seems you couldn't hardly go wrong.

I know that none of my guns would fit with the "list", but they have all served me well for years. Sometimes I have to wonder if the "list" isn't just a bunch of bologna.
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Old 06-16-2013, 18:42   #104
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Originally Posted by Jason D View Post
I have read the "list", and do tend to agree with some of it. It seems now though that milspec means the best, when it used to mean good enough and cheap.

When I was shooting highpower I was shooting thousands of rounds a year though guns that people now poo poo. To be fair though they are original Bushmaster guns, and not the Remington guns people seem to hate.

While I tried to talk my Dad out of it, he went ahead and bought a Bushmaster Carbon 15. This is one of those guns that everyone seems to hate. We ran 2K rounds though it since be bought it.

Now I wouldn't buy one, but it seems like people could do worse. I noticed the local dealer has some DPMS A2 carbines in stock for 699. Everyone that has better guns seems to hate them too, but for the price it seems you couldn't hardly go wrong.

I know that none of my guns would fit with the "list", but they have all served me well for years. Sometimes I have to wonder if the "list" isn't just a bunch of bologna.
People crap on the Bushmaster Carbon because of the plastic receivers. We have a poster here buy one recently, and I think it only made it a few weeks before one of the takedown pin holes on the upper broke. Bushmaster in general gets crapped on for much the same reason as DPMS.

DPMS gets a bad reputation because of the kind of parts they often use, and poor quality control practices. 1/9 twist, unlined barrels, non-HPT/MPI bolts, semi-auto carriers, crappy triggers, semi-frequent poor gas key staking, unstaked castle nuts, etc. Yeah, you can get them for fairly cheap, but you can also spend $100-200 more for something better. I used to point at PSA as a prime example of that, but they've had issues lately, too.
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Old 06-16-2013, 19:21   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason D View Post
I have read the "list", and do tend to agree with some of it. It seems now though that milspec means the best, when it used to mean good enough and cheap.

When I was shooting highpower I was shooting thousands of rounds a year though guns that people now poo poo. To be fair though they are original Bushmaster guns, and not the Remington guns people seem to hate.

While I tried to talk my Dad out of it, he went ahead and bought a Bushmaster Carbon 15. This is one of those guns that everyone seems to hate. We ran 2K rounds though it since be bought it.

Now I wouldn't buy one, but it seems like people could do worse. I noticed the local dealer has some DPMS A2 carbines in stock for 699. Everyone that has better guns seems to hate them too, but for the price it seems you couldn't hardly go wrong.

I know that none of my guns would fit with the "list", but they have all served me well for years. Sometimes I have to wonder if the "list" isn't just a bunch of bologna.

the "list" depends mostly on your firing schedule.


If you're the kind of guy who might fire 1,000 rounds in a year, over the course of 12 months. Yeah, you could probably get away with anything you want.


If you're going to a class that burns that in 2 days, you'll quickly understand why people poo-poo the bushmaster carbon and DPMS rigs.
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Old 06-16-2013, 20:39   #106
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I just can't see buying the carbon guns no matter who made them. Way to many bad tales on them. Windham is making a couple of different models but I haven't seen any reports on them. BMs have sure had their problems with the carbon. Even their ARs suffered in the move and change of personnel. Although the BMs I have been in to that are of resent production (last 10-12 months) seem to be properly done, the jury is still out. Windham ARs also seem to be pretty good quality so far. As far as stamping for test and hardness, who knows ? It's easier to stamp than test, that's for sure.
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