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Old 08-26-2014, 22:36   #81
John Rambo
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Originally Posted by Sam Spade View Post
If the average cop can be trained to know when its lawful, and beyond lawful, necessary to take a life, he can be trained as to when it's proper to cut the video. Really.

If for some reason you can't teach your recruits to ask "what would I think if it were my baby sister being filmed", then the first thing that needs attention is your hiring standards.

Not trying to be short here, but its bedtime. I'll look in tomorrow.

I get what you're saying here.

The problem is the first time a cop cuts off the camera for a legit reason and things go all sideways, itd be a ****storm.
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Old 08-26-2014, 22:41   #82
steveksux
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Originally Posted by TBO View Post
Doc,

LE doesn't release evidence like that minutes/hours/days after an event, for good reason. It can taint a case.

If you follow other cases, you've seen the mob ignore similar evidence and continue advancing their agenda.

This issue is with the mob, not with the cops, and not with the process.
There are people upset with the St Louis shooting, why did they have to kill him, another black man gunned down by the police, etc.

Despite orders to drop the knife, on video, and him approaching with said knife.

Should have shot the knife out of his hand, or why not tase him, would be the rallying cry instead of hands up Don't shoot.

I'd like to think there's something of a bell curve going on and video would weed some folks out, but would not eliminate riots, just maybe start smaller.

Then of course once the riot gear comes out, people would take to the streets about the militarization of the police..

Randy

Last edited by steveksux; 08-27-2014 at 04:22..
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Old 08-26-2014, 22:42   #83
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What would that entail? I'd love to hear it.

You don't want to record a heinous crime with you body cam? I'm truly trying NOT to be condescending here, but I don't buy that as a good enough excuse.

If you shot Michael Brown on your shift wouldn't you want proof of your innocence? Especially if you were found guilty in wound up in a Black dominated prison.
If you're going to be a ghoul, hire someone else to do your voyeurism.

Its absolutely a good enough reason. Its a war crime to submit POWs to humiliating or degrading treatment. Victims deserve at least that much consideration, don't you think? Mom didn't volunteer to lose her child. Grandma didn't ask to be raped. The neighbors don't need to be exposed to having their homes burnt in retaliation for their honesty.

I'll take the chance that I need to rely on things like witnesses and physical evidence to clear me in the one in a million case where I shoot Brown and my camera was left off from the last nunya business encounter. Kinda like we've done for generations.

You strike me as having led a sheltered life. If you hadn't been as protected as you seem, you'd have more empathy than a cop that's seen too much.

And its bedtime still.
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Old 08-27-2014, 03:47   #84
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Originally Posted by Sam Spade View Post
If you're going to be a ghoul, hire someone else to do your voyeurism.

Its absolutely a good enough reason. Its a war crime to submit POWs to humiliating or degrading treatment. Victims deserve at least that much consideration, don't you think? Mom didn't volunteer to lose her child. Grandma didn't ask to be raped. The neighbors don't need to be exposed to having their homes burnt in retaliation for their honesty.

I'll take the chance that I need to rely on things like witnesses and physical evidence to clear me in the one in a million case where I shoot Brown and my camera was left off from the last nunya business encounter. Kinda like we've done for generations.

You strike me as having led a sheltered life. If you hadn't been as protected as you seem, you'd have more empathy than a cop that's seen too much.

And its bedtime still.
To bad, the camera needs to be recording the whole time you are on duty. It has been proven to many times, that LEO's are untrustworthy.

Again, you have no right to privacy while on duty. LEO's don't know the law, if that was the case, you would attorneys. What LEO's do if follow policies and procedures set down to you by the department.
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Last edited by Markk9; 08-27-2014 at 03:56..
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Old 08-27-2014, 03:57   #85
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To bad, the camera needs to recording the whole time you are on duty. It has been proven to many times, that LEO's are untrustworthy. TROOOOOOOLL.

Again, you have no right to privacy while on duty. LEO's don't know the law, if that was the case, you would attorneys. What LEO's do if follow policies and procedures set down to you by the department.
I can only assume you are joking. Surely you know better than this.
Of course we know law. That is the basis for determining if a crime has been committed. That is the basis for determining what action is taken.
Of course we have a right to privacy. When I'm going to the bathroom a body cam is either going off or getting taken off.
Anyone thinking otherwise is kidding themselves.
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Last edited by ancient_serpent; 08-27-2014 at 03:57..
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Old 08-27-2014, 07:11   #86
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Originally Posted by Markk9 View Post
To bad, the camera needs to be recording the whole time you are on duty. It has been proven to many times, that LEO's are untrustworthy.

Again, you have no right to privacy while on duty. LEO's don't know the law, if that was the case, you would attorneys. What LEO's do if follow policies and procedures set down to you by the department.
Repeating yourself doesn't make your point true.

Provide a cite for your claim that you, my employer, or anyone else has the freedom to film me in the locker room. You can't do it. Then, try this one on: I'm involved in a LE use of force or some similar civil rights issue. As a result, I choose to consult with my attorney, ether personally retained or government owned. Explain to me, in simple declarative statements, by what authority you're going to demand *that* conversation be filmed.

Now that your absolute has failed in two different cases, are you going to stomp your foot and insist it's true anyway?

And stepping away from your desire to monitor my bowel movements: even if *I* have no expectation of privacy, does the other guy? How about some guy who's a confidential informant? Do those Court decisions get overturned? Does the .gov get to review my footage of your home and use it to arrest you or get a warrant when the lens captures what the eye overlooked? Or can the HOA have the footage we shot while visiting? Since its a public record, how do you plan on stopping them?
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Old 08-27-2014, 17:42   #87
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Sam, I don't think anyone is suggesting you wear the camera in the locker room or while you're urinating... The issue stands as it regards contact with the public. In this regard, it doesn't seem unreasonable.

However, in reading this thread, I probably come down against cameras. They will probably make matters worse rather than better and just add another layer of problem

The problems with modern "law enforcement" are cultural, and a function of the greater zeitgeist of our society and our political philosophy (such as it is). This will not be cured by wearing a camera.
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Old 08-27-2014, 17:51   #88
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Originally Posted by Markk9 View Post
To bad, the camera needs to be recording the whole time you are on duty. It has been proven to many times, that LEO's are untrustworthy.

Again, you have no right to privacy while on duty. LEO's don't know the law, if that was the case, you would attorneys. What LEO's do if follow policies and procedures set down to you by the department.
Oh yeah, I wish I were an attorney. Unfortunately, I am only a simple FTO. You just received a "1" for the day in report writing.

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Old 08-27-2014, 19:23   #89
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Originally Posted by barbedwiresmile View Post

The problems with modern "law enforcement" are cultural, and a function of the greater zeitgeist of our society and our political philosophy (such as it is). This will not be cured by wearing a camera.
A point I agree with but failed to make clear in my OP.

I think cameras will cut down on bad practices by LE. And during altercations with the public it will add accountability to all parties involved. It doesn't solve the problem of SWAT APC's rolling through the streets or Tacti-cool ninjas committing B and E over a MJ plant.
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Old 08-27-2014, 20:13   #90
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Originally Posted by Sam Spade View Post

And stepping away from your desire to monitor my bowel movements:
Quote:
Originally Posted by barbedwiresmile View Post
Sam, I don't think anyone is suggesting you wear the camera in the locker room or while you're urinating..
Clearly you'd need to file a FOTMIA request to access that. (Freedom Of Too Much Information Act).

Randy

Last edited by steveksux; 08-27-2014 at 20:13..
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Old 08-28-2014, 20:16   #91
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As I've always maintained, I'm in favor of cameras that can't be turned off (other than for bathroom breaks, etc...). Allegations of police misconduct can come from any encounter, so records of every encounter should be made and maintained.

By way of example, look at the GT thread of the pastor who made an allegation of police misconduct that occurred a year previously. The video proved no misconduct.

The only downside is, if LE is known to carry videos, people would demand to see the video before they've had the opportunity to unfurl enough rope to hang themselves or tailor their story to fit the video.
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Last edited by Patchman; 08-28-2014 at 20:18..
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Old 08-28-2014, 21:40   #92
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The only downside is, if LE is known to carry videos, people would demand to see the video before they've had the opportunity to unfurl enough rope to hang themselves or tailor their story to fit the video.
You mean the accused would want to see the state's evidence against them before testifying against themselves?

Terrible
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Old 08-28-2014, 21:52   #93
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I believe he's speaking about making a false complaint against LE.
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Old 08-29-2014, 03:37   #94
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I'm speaking about people tailoring their story and changing it. An example would be something like "Mike would never, ever hurt anyone or do anything wrong" and "Me and Mike was just walking down the street minding our own business..." to "Oh there's video available? In that case, me and Mike just finished robbing a store and that's why we was walking down the street minding our business..."
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Last edited by Patchman; 08-29-2014 at 04:30..
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Old 08-29-2014, 03:44   #95
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You mean the accused would want to see the state's evidence against them before testifying against themselves?
Before Testifying against themselves? No. They can wait until after the video is posted on Youtube.

Or see their own video?
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Although many good citizens own and carry guns, keeping communities safe still fall on those who carry badges.

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Last edited by Patchman; 08-29-2014 at 04:01..
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Old 08-29-2014, 04:00   #96
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A point I agree with but failed to make clear in my OP.

It doesn't solve the problem of SWAT APC's rolling through the streets or Tacti-cool ninjas committing B and E over a MJ plant.
Videos (in their unedited form) will show what they will show.
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