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Old 06-12-2013, 18:35   #161
concretefuzzynuts
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Originally Posted by SeaDoc View Post
Roger that. My English is fine, BTW. I thought it was understood that I was just making a general point about 00 and 000 buck and their penetration issues wrt HD and wasn't concentrating much on semantics. My main goal was to get a sense of where other members of this forum fall on the "penetration vs. stopping power" spectrum. Having said that, I think we are more in agreement than I originally thought.

I will check with some USMC and range buddies but will probably end up sticking with small buck or large steel shot for in-house HD. A couple of light loads followed by heavier ones might be a good idea, too. Not sure.
Welcome to this forum. You use whatever self defense load works for you. Convey your thoughts how you want and don't worry about internet "geniuses".

Questions are usually good, answers are hit or miss.
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Old 06-12-2013, 19:43   #162
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Originally Posted by SeaDoc View Post
Roger that. My English is fine, BTW. I thought it was understood that I was just making a general point about 00 and 000 buck and their penetration issues wrt HD and wasn't concentrating much on semantics. My main goal was to get a sense of where other members of this forum fall on the "penetration vs. stopping power" spectrum. Having said that, I think we are more in agreement than I originally thought.

I will check with some USMC and range buddies but will probably end up sticking with small buck or large steel shot for in-house HD. A couple of light loads followed by heavier ones might be a good idea, too. Not sure.
It's all good. The info I put in post 149 mirrors my own experience with the Federal load and with a sub-two-inch pattern at 7 yards I don't worry about stray pellets a lot and complete misses would worry me the same with about anything due to Murphy's law.
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Old 06-12-2013, 21:30   #163
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Thank you gentlemen - I appreciate the comments. I just talked with a Marine infantry Major today who recommended non-lethal bean bags and the like for HD. Not sure I want a perp to be able to get right back up after I put him down but it is very useful perspective. #4 BS still seems to be the best at this point, IMHO, of course.
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Old 06-13-2013, 00:26   #164
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Thank you gentlemen - I appreciate the comments. I just talked with a Marine infantry Major today who recommended non-lethal bean bags and the like for HD. Not sure I want a perp to be able to get right back up after I put him down but it is very useful perspective. #4 BS still seems to be the best at this point, IMHO, of course.
NO.

Also, the term is less lethal. There's no such thing as non-lethal from a shotgun.

Stick to #4, #1 or 00 buck, preferably in a low recoil (tight patterning) load, unless running a semi-auto that is only reliable on full house loads. I am partial to #1 buck (it's what my 590 is stoked with) with slugs and bird (for the large 4-legged and fanged no-legged problems, respectively) on the stock, and 5 more of #1 on the side saddle.
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Old 06-13-2013, 04:21   #165
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Originally Posted by WoodenPlank View Post

Also, the term is less lethal.
Was going to rant about how could something be less lethal since "lethal" is defined as "of an instrument of certain death."

But then I thought about lethality with regard to FMJ versus Hollowpoint rounds and referred back to this video:


For self defense, Hollowpoints do make a difference and indeed are more lethal and less likely to penetrate than FMJ, with the latter being better for the range.

Always back to Glock-related issues I guess.
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Old 06-13-2013, 09:43   #166
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Originally Posted by WoodenPlank View Post
There's no such thing as non-lethal from a shotgun.
Yes, good catch - I came to the same conclusion after I made the post. It dawned on me later that a bean bag shot to the throat could very easily fracture the larnyx or crush the trachea which would prove to be fatal.
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Old 06-13-2013, 17:03   #167
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Yes, good catch - I came to the same conclusion after I made the post. It dawned on me later that a bean bag shot to the throat could very easily fracture the larnyx or crush the trachea which would prove to be fatal.
Close range shots to the upper chest and head can kill from blunt force, as well. The problem with riot control ammo is that it can be horribly inconsistent in its effectiveness, since it mostly relies on pain to make the subject stop. Against a motivated attacker, someone with one hell of adrenaline dump, or someone on drugs, this is NOT a reliable method of stopping them. Also, even if your attacker is stopped by the first hit, there's little to prevent them from getting up again moments later and attacking you again.

Don't do it.
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Last edited by WoodenPlank; 06-13-2013 at 17:15..
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Old 06-14-2013, 06:23   #168
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Originally Posted by WoodenPlank View Post
Close range shots to the upper chest and head can kill from blunt force, as well. The problem with riot control ammo is that it can be horribly inconsistent in its effectiveness, since it mostly relies on pain to make the subject stop. Against a motivated attacker, someone with one hell of adrenaline dump, or someone on drugs, this is NOT a reliable method of stopping them. Also, even if your attacker is stopped by the first hit, there's little to prevent them from getting up again moments later and attacking you again.

Don't do it.
Very good points - thanks for the post. Yup - I think I'm back to #4 or #1 buck for sure for inside the house. Obviously, perps who do home invasions, for whatever reason, will likely come armed and if I get the drop on him, I don't want to lose that advatage by letting him get back up.

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Old 06-14-2013, 12:53   #169
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Originally Posted by GlockWheeler View Post
My 12 gauge pump is loaded with Winchester Low Recoil OOBuck. I believe it is an 8 pellet load.
this is my set up in my Mossberg 500's for HD.
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