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Old 08-26-2014, 10:26   #61
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Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
I doubt anyone really needs the speed of a 650 with feeder (700rds/hr+), I don't, but I do enjoy loading on mine. Going back to the 550 is no big deal.
Having fun while reloading is a goal in itself. The 650 is more fun than the 550.

Both of my 550s are mounted to the same bench as the 650. There is always a possibility that I will want to load a few rounds of some odd caliber and using the 550 might be easier than changing the 650. Something like .38 148 gr HBWC comes to mind. I don't shoot it often and the 550 loads it just fine.

Richard
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Old 08-26-2014, 11:13   #62
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I agree that (for example) the LCT is to slow. It is slow now. But it was not too slow when I initially started reloading. In fact, it was perfect for my experience level. At that point in time, the turret press was exactly what I needed. Four pulls of the handle l for each round allowed me to learn very well what happens with each step, it allowed me to pay attention for issues and now to resolve them. As I became more comfortable and faster with the turret, I then moved to a Lee Loadmaster progressive press.

Just before I sold the turret, I had a friend who was even more of a beginner than I was stop over to do some reloading. My friend very much needed the simplicity of the turret. He needed to gain experience and understanding of what happens with each step in the process, just as I did when I initially bought the turret. This same guy came over the tried out my Loadmaster progressive. As a beginner, the complexity of a 5 stage progressive where 5 operations happen with each pull was (understandably) overwhelming for my friend (a beginner reloaded). It is not so hard to understand how this might happen.

I also understand how difficult it is to put yourself in the shoes of a beginner especially if you have been doing something for years or decades. Again (oh no, another analogy!), you don’t put a new driver into a 700HP sports car, or a new bike rider on an Orange Counter chopper, unless you want something bad to happen very quickly.

The tool or toy must meet the level of the user.
This is not a foreign concept.
We’ve all done this at some point in life.

Last edited by Gpruitt54; 08-26-2014 at 11:14..
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Old 08-26-2014, 11:54   #63
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How is the LCT too slow? It's only slow compared to a true multi stage-progressive. The LCT is a progressive Turret or you could say its a "Progressive Single Stage" . Compared to a Single Stage it's at least twice as fast. That is not slow. It also will do the vast majority of tasks that a single stage does just as well if not better. It's only downside is that it has a rotating toolhead that is not as precise as a true SS. But it's plenty good enough for most people. ESPECIALLY if you use the floating style lock ring that Lee provides with his dies.

So LCT vs SS

LCT is faster
LCT is actually nicer then most SS press, smooth stroke, great priming system, great price.
Easier to convert (toolheads are cheap)
SS Is more precise.

Besides that one issue the LCT is a clear winner.

I bought a 650 and then a LCT. LCT does all the stuff my 650 just doesn't need to do because the 650 is so expensive for small odd calibers.
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Last edited by Colorado4Wheel; 08-26-2014 at 12:07..
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Old 08-26-2014, 11:57   #64
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I am saying that a turret press (any turret) is perfect for a beginner.

Last edited by Gpruitt54; 08-26-2014 at 13:39..
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:27   #65
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I guess I don't see the learning process as anything that should take more than a couple of hours. This ain't brain surgery... Run a couple of rounds through the press as individual reloadings, make sure the press is adjusted and make a dozen. STOP! Go test them before loading another couple of dozen. Do NOT make 1000 rounds of junk!

Having spent money for a low end press and then moving up to a more capable press seems like a waste of money. And time because the sequence of operations will be different.

I keep trying to make the case, mentally, for buying a dead simple single stage press to start reloading with the knowledge that such a press will always be handy (and they are!). But I keep coming up against the fact that I don't like reloading out of a loading block. I have some very nice blocks, far better than those crappy plastic ones that come in kits, but I still don't like the process.

I'm not in the business of recommending the Redding T7 to newcomers because it is fairly expensive and it isn't all that useful for bulk pistol. But it does have one redeeming feature: I don't have to load out of a block. I can charge the case, rotate the head and seat the bullet in two immediately sequential operations. Then the loaded round goes in an ammo box and I'm done with it. I just don't like having a bunch of charged cases sitting in the block waiting for me to knock them over!

Not wanting to go back to using a loading block is the primary reason I don't have a Forster Co-Ax press. I have read where they make splendid precision rifle rounds but I just don't want to go backward in terms of the loading block.

There's nothing wrong with starting out on an LCT. As long as the reloader understands that the machine is slow and that, at some point, they will probably want to upgrade. Whether they sell the LCT to help fund the upgrade is a consideration. In fact, it's probably better to start with an LCT than not start because the 550/ 650 is so pricey.

Richard
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Last edited by F106 Fan; 08-26-2014 at 12:28..
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:48   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F106 Fan View Post
There's nothing wrong with starting out on an LCT. As long as the reloader understands that the machine is slow and that, at some point, they will probably want to upgrade. Whether they sell the LCT to help fund the upgrade is a consideration. In fact, it's probably better to start with an LCT than not start because the 550/ 650 is so pricey.

Richard
Richard....that was kind of my thought process, but right now I don't see my shooting habits changing to where I need the 550/650.....but I could be wrong now....as the Monk theme song goes
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Old 08-26-2014, 13:08   #67
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Richard....that was kind of my thought process, but right now I don't see my shooting habits changing to where I need the 550/650.....but I could be wrong now....as the Monk theme song goes
Only available time and required volume should drive the decision to upgrade.

From all the videos I have watched, the LCT seems like a pretty decent machine. If it produces enough ammo in a sufficiently short time, why not use it?

My problem is, regardless of volume, I want to drive the time toward zero. Ideally, were I rich, UPS would just drop the ammo on my doorstep.

Richard
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Old 08-26-2014, 13:19   #68
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sad.....but I've gotten to know the USP man by name. He stops here so often that sometimes when he doesn't even have a delivery for me he just stops to BS for a few minutes

My LCT produces what I need so it fits the bill.
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Old 08-26-2014, 14:43   #69
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Yes, for anyone, you can learn to reload in a few hours. What takes longer is developing laser focus on the important steps that absolutely must be done correctly and to develop a routine a muscle memory so that you instantly know that have missed something, and you know how to resolve your mistake. It is even money that a new reloader has likely not developed any of these skills.

Using a turret or single stage press allows a new reloader to devote proper attention to and develop the necessary skills to create constantly performing safe rounds. Speed comes later. There is nothing wrong with upgrading equipment as skill increases. Every hobbyists does it as he or she progresses.
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