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Old 08-21-2014, 15:02   #21
Emmett4glock
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Wingryder, I never took you for a "holier than thou" type of person. You're truthful in what you said about my model but are you honestly going to tell me there aren't scientists who are hoping to dispel the "god myth"?
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Old 08-21-2014, 15:21   #22
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I thought we had that big discovery a few months ago where the initial expansion from the big bang occurred at speeds faster than light? Lasted for milliseconds?

If true, then light would not be the fastest thing.
I think you misunderstand those findings. The speed of light is a limit for anything that has mass. As one approaches the speed of light, mass asymptotes towards infinity and the energy required to accelerate further does likewise. So, nothing with mass can exceed (or even match) the speed of light.

The recent findings in regards to cosmic inflation (which has been theorized for decades, but was only recently confirmed experimentally) were that in the very early universe spacetime itself expanded faster than the speed of light. Spacetime, being without mass, is not restricted by this cosmic speed limit.
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Old 08-21-2014, 15:42   #23
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Originally Posted by Emmett4glock View Post
Wingryder, I never took you for a "holier than thou" type of person. You're truthful in what you said about my model but are you honestly going to tell me there aren't scientists who are hoping to dispel the "god myth"?
I can't speak for all scientists (or any for that matter) lol. I can't recall seeing any scientific work thats objective was to dispel god. Though, there have been countless works where that is a natural bi-product.
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Old 08-21-2014, 20:11   #24
Emmett4glock
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Of course it's not a written or spoken objective of scientists, Wingryder but the hope is there nonetheless for many; as well as for unbelievers who don't want God in any part of their world. I'm disappointed and surprised that you wouldn't admit this. Each side has their agenda.
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Old 08-21-2014, 20:53   #25
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Of course it's not a written or spoken objective of scientists, Wingryder but the hope is there nonetheless for many; as well as for unbelievers who don't want God in any part of their world. I'm disappointed and surprised that you wouldn't admit this. Each side has their agenda.
You are asking me to admit to hearsay. How am I supposed to know what the "hope" of scientists is? There are certain scientists that are very vocal about their views on theology, and many who are not. But your portrayal that scientists, from various fields, are somehow conspiring to discredit the bible, is innacurate.

Theologian have done more to discredit the bible by combating new scientific discoveries throughout history. It has been going on since the dawn of the renaissance. The gaps are getting smaller.
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Old 08-21-2014, 22:17   #26
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Originally Posted by Emmett4glock View Post
Of course it's not a written or spoken objective of scientists, Wingryder but the hope is there nonetheless for many; as well as for unbelievers who don't want God in any part of their world. I'm disappointed and surprised that you wouldn't admit this. Each side has their agenda.
It's not written or spoken, but you somehow know that scientists and non-believers want to prove there are no gods.

Insecure much?
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Old 08-21-2014, 23:27   #27
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Meaning that it's not written or spoken about as a preface to their work. I listen to and observe friends in the science field; no insecurity involved.
It's very difficult for me to believe that neither of you have ever heard or observed this. I think you all are yankin' my chain.

Last edited by Emmett4glock; 08-21-2014 at 23:36.. Reason: Late at night not typing very well
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Old 08-22-2014, 05:55   #28
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Emmet, are you referring to explaining nature with natural explanations and replacing "God did it" as the explanation, or have something else in mind.

I thought I read most scientists are Christian, at least in the US.

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Old 08-22-2014, 06:01   #29
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Meaning that it's not written or spoken about as a preface to their work. I listen to and observe friends in the science field; no insecurity involved.
It's very difficult for me to believe that neither of you have ever heard or observed this. I think you all are yankin' my chain.
Is there some scientific experiment to test for the existence of a deity that you feel scientists should be performing?
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Old 08-22-2014, 09:00   #30
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Is there some scientific experiment to test for the existence of a deity that you feel scientists should be performing?
They are still unable to offer proof that Zeus doesn't exist. Proving a negative in the context is very difficult, there's quite a backlog of deities to disprove. Please have God pick a number for faster service.

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Old 08-22-2014, 09:33   #31
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Randy,
I'm speaking about friends and acquaintances in various fields of science who are, for lack of a better term, happy, when they believe certain scientific findings contradict and disprove what is written in the Bible. Some believe that certain scientific discoveries have demonstrated that God does not exist. These include discoveries in the area of brain chemistry, genetics, etc.
In my experience I know more unbelievers in the scientific community than believers. Is this to say they're atheists? I don't know but they're certainly not Christian. I think I will chalk up this portion of my contribution to this thread to miscommunication.
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Old 08-22-2014, 09:43   #32
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why does it even matter? (pun intended) If you believe in an all powerful God that created the universe, he can do anything he wants including making the earth billions of years old or just top appear that way. The bible is not exactly clear on this issue and there are many different Christians that hold to many different ideas.
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Old 08-22-2014, 09:47   #33
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I doubt they think they've proven God doesn't exist, but their certainly happy to solve a vexing problem or made a breakthrough on a complicated mysterious process (cosmological, evolutionary, or biological) that explained how it works without having to resort to supernatural explanation.

Science has always pushed back the boundaries of where "god did it" and replaced that explanation with physical laws and processes, even as far back as Galileo and beyond. Reducing irreducible complexity to soluble problems and things of that sort.

Proving God doesn't hold the moon in orbit around the Earth and the correct answer is Gravity doesn't prove God doesn't exist, only that there's no need for divine intervention on that particular incidence, and it's really just natural physical processes at work.

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Old 08-22-2014, 09:47   #34
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Randy,
I'm speaking about friends and acquaintances in various fields of science who are, for lack of a better term, happy, when they believe certain scientific findings contradict and disprove what is written in the Bible. Some believe that certain scientific discoveries have demonstrated that God does not exist.
The more important question to ask yourself is are these scientific findings and discoveries true? Not how they feel about them, but how do you feel about them?

The holy grails of any scientist is to discover something previously unknown. ANY new scientific discovery, regardless of their effect on any ancient text, must be extremely satisfying!

I remember seeing scientist crying over the confirmation of the Higgs Boson particle & landing Curiosity on Mars. It must be a hugely satisfying feeling to work on something so important and see that you were correct.
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Old 08-22-2014, 10:39   #35
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The more important question to ask yourself is are these scientific findings and discoveries true? Not how they feel about them, but how do you feel about them?
Wingryder, I probably used the wrong term in my post that said I adjust my beliefs. The proper phrase would be, I adjust my understanding. If it appears that science is contradicting my beliefs, I don't automatically throw it out. But as you and others have said,
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The major difference being that science adjusts theories to meet new data and observations.
I am not a young earth believer although I tried to be one. There is just too much scientific evidence against it. The improvement in instrumentation used for calculations is advancing. The man who first set the date was Bishop James Ussher in the 1600s. The Bible doesn't specifically say 6,000 years but by his calculations that's the number he derived. With this said, this isn't meant to offend my fellow Christians who believe in a young earth. They may ultimately be proven correct but as far as the geological record is concerned, I don't see it. For the record I believe God is unchanging but I believe He continues to unfold information about His Creation to those who search for it, whether they are religious or secular. He may even take great joy that his human creation are making these discoveries; of course, pure speculation on my part. I don't discount science. I believe science and the Bible are in harmony. When they don't appear to be, I don't question God's existence. I question my own understanding or my understanding of certain translated words.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:38   #36
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The major difference being that science adjusts theories to meet new data and observations
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Originally Posted by Emmett4glock View Post
Wingryder, I probably used the wrong term in my post that said I adjust my beliefs. The proper phrase would be, I adjust my understanding. If it appears that science is contradicting my beliefs, I don't automatically throw it out. But as you and others have said,
I am not a young earth believer although I tried to be one. There is just too much scientific evidence against it. The improvement in instrumentation used for calculations is advancing. The man who first set the date was Bishop James Ussher in the 1600s. The Bible doesn't specifically say 6,000 years but by his calculations that's the number he derived. With this said, this isn't meant to offend my fellow Christians who believe in a young earth. They may ultimately be proven correct but as far as the geological record is concerned, I don't see it. For the record I believe God is unchanging but I believe He continues to unfold information about His Creation to those who search for it, whether they are religious or secular. He may even take great joy that his human creation are making these discoveries; of course, pure speculation on my part. I don't discount science. I believe science and the Bible are in harmony. When they don't appear to be, I don't question God's existence. I question my own understanding or my understanding of certain translated words.
Religions also adjust to science, at least some of them. Catholics have no issue with current state of science on cosmology or evolution, they backed off on stuff since Galileo's time. They maintain that God directed evolution, maybe pulled the pin on the Big Bang, that sort of thing. But they generally fall back beyond the limits of generally accepted science. Many other mainstream Christian denominations do as well.

It's only the fundamentalists that refuse to adjust when contrary facts disturb their belief systems.

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