[Cavalry Doc]

Originally Posted by Vic Hays

I pity them because I have experienced bitterness in the past.
It is more than belief. The atheists that post here are driven to. They cannot help themselves because a deep bitterness within them drives them. They think if they can extinguish the very mention of our wonderful Savior they will have peace. The problem is that the bitterness resides within themselves and they have no Savior to help them overcome it.

The Bible speaks of those who are unable to keep from sinning.

2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
2 Peter 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

In some, it appears to be religious proselytizing. Driven is a good description too, by a strong faith in their own version of how things came to be as they are. Some religious fanatics are intolerant of others beliefs. I think it's a personal choice that people have every right to make. It's just that some people just have bad manners.

[Vic Hays]

Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc

In some, it appears to be religious proselytizing. Driven is a good description too, by a strong faith in their own version of how things came to be as they are. Some religious fanatics are intolerant of others beliefs. I think it's a personal choice that people have every right to make. It's just that some people just have bad manners.

The Bible excels at insight into human behavior. The source of control freakishness is identified.

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

The converse is also true to the believer.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

So it is just a matter of the collision of wills in the battle for the souls of men. Men are choosing who they will serve and which side they choose for their inspiration to come from.

[FCoulter]

Hopefully now this thread can get back and stay on topic. Since Jesus was the one that revealed the Father in the book of John. Jesus was the God doing all things in the OT. He did all things for the Father,but since the Father was not revealed yet the Jews God was actually Jesus, and yet the denied Jesus when He came to earth.

If you disagree with this account, please use scripture to cite your point.

[Cavalry Doc]

[Vic Hays]

Originally Posted by FCoulter

Hopefully now this thread can get back and stay on topic. Since Jesus was the one that revealed the Father in the book of John. Jesus was the God doing all things in the OT. He did all things for the Father,but since the Father was not revealed yet the Jews God was actually Jesus, and yet the denied Jesus when He came to earth.

If you disagree with this account, please use scripture to cite your point.

The problem that most people have is trying to cubbyhole God within the confines of their own personal logic. Instead of trying to define God and the persons of the God Head it is much more satisfying to contemplate the way that the persons of God have worked for my personal salvation.

Yes, to any person with any reading comprehension at all, Christ was the one who performed throughout the Old Testament.

1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1 Corinthians 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1 Corinthians 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

[Brasso]

Let's keep in mind that all of the believers were initially Jews. For about the first 20 years after the crucifixion. So it's not that all of the Jews rejected Him. Of those that did accept Him, most were killed around 70ad and more during the Bar Kochba revolt. All that was left after that were the Jews that make up modern day Judaism and the gentiles, led by a Roman sun worshiper, who through out most of the Bible and enforced his own brand of sun/biblical religion through various edicts who's effects are still with us today.

You can't blame the Jews today for not believing in a Jesus Messiah that did away with the very commandments He already told the Jews were forever. Who did away with the Sabbath and told them they could eat whatever they wanted. There is no reason for them to believe in this version of their Messiah.

The question is, since Messiah is the very Word made flesh, and they still believe in keeping this Word, even though they don't believe He came in the flesh yet, are they doomed?

Personally, I don't really think they are any worse off than those who claim to believe in Him, yet reject His commandments.

[Snapper2]

Originally Posted by FCoulter

Hopefully now this thread can get back and stay on topic. Since Jesus was the one that revealed the Father in the book of John. Jesus was the God doing all things in the OT. He did all things for the Father,but since the Father was not revealed yet the Jews God was actually Jesus, and yet the denied Jesus when He came to earth.

If you disagree with this account, please use scripture to cite your point.

Corinthians 1 14:21 quotes the law saying they couldnt know God because of unbelief so He would talk to the them through the tongues of foreigners and different languages as a sign they didnt know Him. I believe He has the same attitude today. He wont beg you to have faith if you choose not to, but He will confound the wisdom of men. The Father could not be revealed in fullness until the law had be fullfilled through Jesus.The Father is revealed only by faith in His Son through the Holy Spirit. No one confesses Jesus is Lord any other way. I believe the Jews that live by faith do know the Father.