[railfancwb]

Originally Posted by JMS

Supposedly they are losing $15 billion a year and this will save $2 billion a year.....delaying the inevitable.

They should charge the same rate to business for 'junk mailers' as they do us to increase revenue.

So if they stopped all deliveries they would save $12 billion per year, reducing their annual loss to $3 billion.

Postal service is a duty of the federal government per the Constitution. Health insurance/care is not...


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[WarCry]

Originally Posted by railfancwb

Postal service is a duty of the federal government per the Constitution. Health insurance/care is not...

That's not QUITE correct....

Article I
Section 8
Clause 7

The Congress shall have Power To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

Authority, not responsibility. They CAN do it, it doesn't say they HAVE to do it.

[devildog2067]

Originally Posted by jdeere_man

The price of a stamp is the same whether you mail a letter across town, or across the country. Likewise if I mail a letter across town or across the country it costs the same for both of us. That in itself doesn't make a lot of fiscal sense I suppose, but that's how they do it.

Yes. This is a law, if I remember correctly; the post office isn't allowed to charge more for mail that's being delivered to an address which costs more to service.

I guess if you don't think the rates are fair to you, you can choose not to use the mail service.

The problem with that argument is that, like any other subsidized service, the people who are going to "choose not to use" it are the people who are actually the cheapest to service. Then average costs go up, which means that prices have to go up, which means more people quit using it...

It's real easy for people who live in the city to just say the hell with the rural folks.

I'm not saying "to hell with" anybody. I'm simply pointing out that if your local post office costs more to operate than it takes in in revenue, the options are to 1) close it or 2) run it at a loss. If you're opposed to option 1) because you don't want to drive 60 miles for your mail, that's fine, but you have to understand that anything other than option 1) is asking someone else to pay your way.

It's also easy to forget where your food comes from until it stops coming.

So... because some food comes from rural areas, their postal service should be subsidized?

What does that have anything to do with anything?

Not to mention, the actual price of transporting food is baked into the price. Produce costs more when they are out of season because in order to get them to the grocery store, they have to be shipped halfway across the world. The actual consumer pays for the additional cost of service.

Despite the fact I'm very conservative I guess I consider access to mail service fairly essential.

I don't disagree with you.

I have no problem with consolidated mailboxes within a reasonable distance if rural mail delivery ends.

How far is "reasonable"? Who gets to decide?

With a regular business, we'd let the market decide. You stated (and honestly, I agree with you) that we shouldn't think of the postal service as a "regular" business because it's an essential service.

So how much money should a post office be allowed to lose before it's forced to close? How much money must it cost to service a particular mailbox before they can stop serving it?

You can't have it both ways. If we expect the post office to pay for itself by selling stamps, then the stamps should cover the cost of actually sending a piece of mail. If we say "mail is an essential government service" then we have to be willing to run the post office at a loss. Conceptually, there really isn't any in-betwen.

[JMS]

Originally Posted by devildog2067

So, Congress makes the post office fund itself, but it won't let them reduce service levels or change pricing strategies. How then do they expect them to stop losing money...?

As I'm sure you are well aware, this is the root of the issue.

[Deanster]

Originally Posted by jdeere_man

Sure. I'm not even in Idaho, but I'm sure there is a podunk there too.

So just to be clear I should drive 60 miles to get my mail?

Who else should drive 60 miles to get your mail?

Everyone here whines about our entitlement culture, right up until the services they feel entitled to are threatened.

[CAcop]

A lot of the smaller towns could be served by mailbox stores or even grocery stores with mailboxes. Or just don't staff the post offices. Just use the kiosks they
have in a few of them. I prefer the kiosks to waiting in line for the warm bodies.

Realistically it is going to take a bipartisan group getting toether to solve this. Congresscritters are going to have to deal with their voters getting a post office closed or stripped of employees. ITs the only way things are going to change.

[badge315]

Originally Posted by devildog2067

You can't have it both ways. If we expect the post office to pay for itself by selling stamps, then the stamps should cover the cost of actually sending a piece of mail. If we say "mail is an essential government service" then we have to be willing to run the post office at a loss. Conceptually, there really isn't any in-betwen.

Since certified mail is the only legally recognized form or notification other than hand-delivered process service, it must be considered an essential government service.

[Patchman]

My carrier is a rogue carrier who's been skipping one day each week (not every week, but often enough to be noticeable), for years. She usually skips Tuesdays (and sometimes Saturdays). On the days she skips, the next day we get two bundles of mail.

So a Monday thru Friday delivery is fine.

[TJ Superfly]

I haven't read every post on this thread. It seems to me all I ever get on Saturday is junk mail that I just toss in the recycling container. In my opinion, No big deal.

[jdeere_man]

Originally Posted by Deanster

Who else should drive 60 miles to get your mail?

Everyone here whines about our entitlement culture, right up until the services they feel entitled to are threatened.

I'm not whining about anything.

Why should I have to drive anywhere to get mail people paid to have sent to me? Senders pay for a service that is mailing, to have a letter sent from point a to point b. Point b is my address, which is on the letter. If the sender pays for that service I don't see why the letter should just get to within 60 miles of my address.

[skeeter7]

I'm fine with not getting mail on Saturdays. Save me the misery of opening bills up on the weekend.

[jdeere_man]

Originally Posted by devildog2067

Yes. This is a law, if I remember correctly; the post office isn't allowed to charge more for mail that's being delivered to an address which costs more to service.



The problem with that argument is that, like any other subsidized service, the people who are going to "choose not to use" it are the people who are actually the cheapest to service. Then average costs go up, which means that prices have to go up, which means more people quit using it...



I'm not saying "to hell with" anybody. I'm simply pointing out that if your local post office costs more to operate than it takes in in revenue, the options are to 1) close it or 2) run it at a loss. If you're opposed to option 1) because you don't want to drive 60 miles for your mail, that's fine, but you have to understand that anything other than option 1) is asking someone else to pay your way.



So... because some food comes from rural areas, their postal service should be subsidized?

What does that have anything to do with anything?

Not to mention, the actual price of transporting food is baked into the price. Produce costs more when they are out of season because in order to get them to the grocery store, they have to be shipped halfway across the world. The actual consumer pays for the additional cost of service.



I don't disagree with you.



How far is "reasonable"? Who gets to decide?

With a regular business, we'd let the market decide. You stated (and honestly, I agree with you) that we shouldn't think of the postal service as a "regular" business because it's an essential service.

So how much money should a post office be allowed to lose before it's forced to close? How much money must it cost to service a particular mailbox before they can stop serving it?

You can't have it both ways. If we expect the post office to pay for itself by selling stamps, then the stamps should cover the cost of actually sending a piece of mail. If we say "mail is an essential government service" then we have to be willing to run the post office at a loss. Conceptually, there really isn't any in-betwen.

My reference to food being produced in rural areas has nothing to do with the price of food. It was in reference to someone suggesting I move to a city. If everyone moved to a city there wouldn't be anyone out here still growing things people like to eat.

Do I choose to live in a rural area? Yes. Are there advantages and disadvantages to it? Yes there are. Do I think access to an essential service should be eliminated? No.

My whole point to this is if a person pays to have a letter or package mailed to me, why do I have to go pick it up somewhere? They paid to have it sent to me. Not some random location across the state that's convenient to have it dumped at. Fine if they don't think retail service is paying for itself, it probably isn't. But if someone has paid to have mail sent to me it should get to me.

I live in the boondocks and UPS and Fedex still deliver packages to my residence. I don't think their rates are dramatically higher here than to any other location in a nearby city. Why do they do it? Because it's their business. People pay them to take packages from point a to point b.

[zhix]

On our block and in at least one other neighborhood I know of the carriers drive up one side and deliver the mail, stop and take an hour nap, then do the other side. Recently offices in larger nearby cities were hiring for non career positions at about $14 an hr.

[railfancwb]

UPS and FedEx both have a "residential delivery" surcharge if you or I want to ship a package. Plus they provide volume discounts to major shippers. And they only visit a residence when they have a package for it.


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