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10-09-2012, 14:31
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#51
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 540
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UPDATE:
Called DT and spoke to the brother of Mike. Explained everything and had sent him an email with the hibachi pic in it which he read as he spoke to me. Admitted that they had trouble getting Sierra's and substituted Winchesters. He obviously wasn't happy with the keyhole issue. Offered to send me some more 357Sig in Gold Dots if I wanted, but being a bit jaded on that caliber I elected to get the 150gr Nosler .40 load (which I have some of and like for a compact gun like my Kahr P40). He will also include in with the ammo a shipping label for me to return the remaining 357Sig rounds. I told him I'd put the pulled bullet in there too.
This to me is satisfactory customer service and I told him it was appreciated and that I would purchase DT in the future.....just maybe not 357Sig!
FWIW the 150gr Nosler .40 load chrono'd at 1167fps average from my Walther PPS's 3.2" barrel. I suspect it'll break 1200fps from my P40's 3.5" tube. Don't have the chrono anymore though to confirm it (don't ask). 
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"...there's a man with a gun over there, tellin' me I got to beware..."
11C2P '83-'87
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10-09-2012, 15:49
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#52
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,403
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Happy ending. 
On another note, just another nail in the coffin of Winchester's death spiraling QC. 
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10-09-2012, 18:29
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#53
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 13,242
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Indeed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo
Happy ending.
On another note, just another nail in the coffin of Winchester's death spiraling QC. |
A happy ending to a long story . . . . . 
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Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
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11-01-2012, 13:19
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#54
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 42
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Some anecdotal evidence to support the theory that the Winchester bullet is to blame:
I took my 2 month old Glock 32 to the range today for a lunchtime diversion. I had put about 500 rounds through it before today (a combination of Gold Dots, Federal HSTs, Independents, and Remington UMCs), just to build enough confidence to start using it as my new EDC. (What a great gun and caliber!)
Today, I purchased and shot a standard white box of Winchester 125gr. JHPs. I had numerous keyholes out of the 50 round box. As I shot I thought I was hitting two rounds close together on earlier targets (and feeling rather proud, I might say). When I counted holes on the last target, however, I realized what was happening. Two holes that I thought were caused by four close shots were really two keyholes. I later pulled my discarded targets out of the garbage and found 11 more keyholes. 13 total out of a box of 50.
Rob
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11-01-2012, 13:54
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#55
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 13,242
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I wonder what caused the keyholing? Undersized bullets?
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Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
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11-01-2012, 18:54
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#56
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roberev
Some anecdotal evidence to support the theory that the Winchester bullet is to blame:
I took my 2 month old Glock 32 to the range today for a lunchtime diversion. I had put about 500 rounds through it before today (a combination of Gold Dots, Federal HSTs, Independents, and Remington UMCs), just to build enough confidence to start using it as my new EDC. (What a great gun and caliber!)
Today, I purchased and shot a standard white box of Winchester 125gr. JHPs. I had numerous keyholes out of the 50 round box. As I shot I thought I was hitting two rounds close together on earlier targets (and feeling rather proud, I might say). When I counted holes on the last target, however, I realized what was happening. Two holes that I thought were caused by four close shots were really two keyholes. I later pulled my discarded targets out of the garbage and found 11 more keyholes. 13 total out of a box of 50.
Rob
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Winchester likes to crimp the hell out of their ammo. I measured undersized bullets on some .357sig WWB ammo I had. The bullets measured .002" undersized. (.353")
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11-01-2012, 21:07
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#57
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster
I wonder what caused the keyholing? Undersized bullets?
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They miked at 0.352". Supposed to be 0.355".
__________________
"...there's a man with a gun over there, tellin' me I got to beware..."
11C2P '83-'87
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11-02-2012, 03:13
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#58
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 917
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We have found out of spec WWB rounds in .357 SIG.
Won't buy it anymore..the Remington stuff is cheaper anyway, if not
Double Tap 125 gr. Match ammo that seems to live up to its name.
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TOP GUNS 357 SIG Club #8163
Go Red Sox!
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11-02-2012, 07:44
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#59
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 13,242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABNAK
They miked at 0.352". Supposed to be 0.355".
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That would do it - a full millimeter undersized. A wobble in the barrel for sure.
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Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
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11-02-2012, 15:08
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#60
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 42
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Do I need to worry about damage to my barrel as a result of having shot this substandard ammo?
Rob
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
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11-02-2012, 16:25
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#61
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roberev
Do I need to worry about damage to my barrel as a result of having shot this substandard ammo?
Rob
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
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No. The bullets were just undersize and the barrel would not stabilize them properly causing the bullet to tumble.
Last edited by dkf; 11-02-2012 at 16:26..
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11-03-2012, 11:24
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#62
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 13,242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkf
No. The bullets were just undersize and the barrel would not stabilize them properly causing the bullet to tumble.
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Yes indeed - a full millimeter undersized  . Oops my mistake, It isn't a full millimeter.
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Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
Last edited by SCmasterblaster; 11-14-2012 at 07:37..
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11-03-2012, 12:48
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#63
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,375
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DoubleCRAP ammo lost my business years ago.....their over-stated velocities are one thing, and now this is another......
i've been using underwood ammo with great results......what it says on the box is exactly what it is
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11-03-2012, 13:09
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#64
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 13,242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beretta92guy
DoubleCRAP ammo lost my business years ago.....their over-stated velocities are one thing, and now this is another......
i've been using underwood ammo with great results......what it says on the box is exactly what it is
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I am planning on getting some Underwood ammo one day soon. I hope that it is OK.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
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11-03-2012, 15:37
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#65
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster
Yes indeed - a full millimeter undersized . |
No .002" undersized in my case and .003" undersize for the OP.
1mm = .039"
To put it in laymens terms .002" - .003" is around what a human hair measures in diameter. That may seem small but it can make a REAL big difference.
Last edited by dkf; 11-03-2012 at 15:37..
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11-04-2012, 13:07
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#66
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 13,242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkf
No .002" undersized in my case and .003" undersize for the OP.
1mm = .039"
To put it in laymens terms .002" - .003" is around what a human hair measures in diameter. That may seem small but it can make a REAL big difference.
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My mistake - sorry!
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Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
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11-12-2012, 14:50
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#67
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 42
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I talked with a Winchester Ammo representative today. It seems that I am the first to put this problem on their radar screen. If any of you experience keyholing with the WWB .357 sig round, I encourage you to give them a call. I can give you the direct phone number if you PM me.
Sadly, I shot off all my ammo, so I don't have any rounds to send back to them for inspection.
Rob
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11-12-2012, 17:42
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#68
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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NE of Atlanta
Posts: 29,164
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Problems? With Double Tap? Noooo, I won't believe it!
Not sure why they are so popular.
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11-12-2012, 18:58
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#69
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roberev
I talked with a Winchester Ammo representative today. It seems that I am the first to put this problem on their radar screen. If any of you experience keyholing with the WWB .357 sig round, I encourage you to give them a call. I can give you the direct phone number if you PM me.
Sadly, I shot off all my ammo, so I don't have any rounds to send back to them for inspection.
Rob
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They don't want to list the number to call them or e-mail so I said the hell with it. Will not buy any of their ammo anymore either. I have pics of both undersized bullets with the mic on it for measurement and photos of a crushed round. Two boxes bought about a year apart both with major flaws.
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11-13-2012, 06:36
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#70
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkf
They don't want to list the number to call them or e-mail so I said the hell with it. Will not buy any of their ammo anymore either. I have pics of both undersized bullets with the mic on it for measurement and photos of a crushed round. Two boxes bought about a year apart both with major flaws.
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I got their telephone number off of the Internet. When I called, they gave me a direct line for when I want to call back.
If you send me your photos by PM I will forward them to Winchester. They were asking for such information to help them investigate the matter.
Rob
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
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11-14-2012, 07:39
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#71
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 13,242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roberev
I talked with a Winchester Ammo representative today. It seems that I am the first to put this problem on their radar screen. If any of you experience keyholing with the WWB .357 sig round, I encourage you to give them a call. I can give you the direct phone number if you PM me.
Sadly, I shot off all my ammo, so I don't have any rounds to send back to them for inspection.
Rob
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I wonder if these folks ever test their own ammo?
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Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
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